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I picked up some legionaries for 10th edition. 'ere'z their wargear.

Aspiring champion- accursed weapon+plasma pistol

1 marine with havoc missile launcher
1 with heavy bolter
1 with chaos icon and bolter
6 marines with boltguns
I'll probably have them marked as tzeentch, maybe nurgle.
I am going to add more to the army, but what should I add? I'm open to a long range shooting army, kind of similar to Brother SRM's force in this cool video I found
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdO5oIwhOv0&t=173s
I am definitely going to add some more legionaries, a sorceror/termy sorceror and a chaos termy lord. Anything else anybody might recommend?

Firstly, welcome to the Long War.

I would recommend before anything else reading through the rules PDF and getting an understanding of what each unit does and more importantly what Characters can be attached to them.

As it stands, don't get any Terminator Characters before you get Terminator units to go along with them as the characters will just get sniped on their own.

Now onto units:


That list is of units that I have used so far, siphoned from my HH Iron Warrior and Traitor Guard armies.

Welcome to the long long war.

If you're looking for ranged options I think the first thing you should ask is do you want the demon ascetic or not. Forgefiends and obliterators are some of CSM's strongest ranged options as well as being tougher with a 5+ invulnerable save. Forgefiends can put out a hail of good damage and decent AP shots and obliterators have a admittedly shorter range but good weapon for anything. However some players don't like the fleshy demonic look. If you feel that way, havocs with the mark of nurgle are a good
option giving good damage and durability. The predator, land raider, and vindicator have new leases with the toughness tweaks. The hell brute is also overlooked. A decent platform for melee or shooting but also boosting your dark pacts letting you use both options.

The other thing to consider is even with the shooting you will need a melee option. Terminators, chosen, and possessed are your best options. Each offers 3 wounds though terminators bring the most durability but are very expensive. They also struggle against vehicles and monsters now. Possessed give almost the same durability for no shooting and better speed but no shooting. Base strength makes wounding vehicles hard but gain devastating wounds if they use a dark pact so weight of attacks can work. Chosen offer the best value admittedly with the least durability. Having a good counter punch to clear ranged units or take objectives will be important.

Last consider some utility options. Cultists or traitor guard give cheaper objective holders. Raptors can harass shooting units and give you chance to jump in and steal objectives. Bikes offer good mobility as well. The noctolith crown is a cheeky option giving your gunline a 5+ invulnerable save as well. Chaos can also take one knight or war dog unit. Knights are an easy alliance for Iron warriors and can give potent shooting.

Ultimately I'd advise buying what looks goof for you. The best options come and go but you never regret having an army you like the look of. Doubly so during index hammer. This army will be different in the next year when the codexes drop.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will also add that the Iron Warriors offer a wide range of views on the ruinous powers. They range from abhorring the tainted gifts and mutations from the gods, relying on the traditional astartes elements, to agnostic engineers refusing to worship the gods but more than happy to shove a demon into this weeks super weapon to see what you get, and to finally full on chaos worshippers. Plenty of Iron Warriors took marks and some even ascended so the full array of units are available for you.

I'd also look at the Iron Hands options from the Loyalist lists. If I were playing Iron Legion, I'd think long and hard about playing with Iron Hands rules. IW are more of an Undivided - so if you're already skipping the Daemonics - I feel like OOM, Iron Hands Iron Father etc and OOM is actually more representative of their feel.

Breton wrote:
I'd also look at the Iron Hands options from the Loyalist lists. If I were playing Iron Legion, I'd think long and hard about playing with Iron Hands rules. IW are more of an Undivided - so if you're already skipping the Daemonics - I feel like OOM, Iron Hands Iron Father etc and OOM is actually more representative of their feel.

thanks, I think I'll stick with traitors as I love their lore. Not being able to use daemons is alright with me as I'll probably use some berzerkers or plague marines and convert them to look like marked iron warriors. Will definitely look into Hands' units for kitbashing though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:
Welcome to the long long war.

If you're looking for ranged options I think the first thing you should ask is do you want the demon ascetic or not. Forgefiends and obliterators are some of CSM's strongest ranged options as well as being tougher with a 5+ invulnerable save. Forgefiends can put out a hail of good damage and decent AP shots and obliterators have a admittedly shorter range but good weapon for anything. However some players don't like the fleshy demonic look. If you feel that way, havocs with the mark of nurgle are a good
option giving good damage and durability. The predator, land raider, and vindicator have new leases with the toughness tweaks. The hell brute is also overlooked. A decent platform for melee or shooting but also boosting your dark pacts letting you use both options.

The other thing to consider is even with the shooting you will need a melee option. Terminators, chosen, and possessed are your best options. Each offers 3 wounds though terminators bring the most durability but are very expensive. They also struggle against vehicles and monsters now. Possessed give almost the same durability for no shooting and better speed but no shooting. Base strength makes wounding vehicles hard but gain devastating wounds if they use a dark pact so weight of attacks can work. Chosen offer the best value admittedly with the least durability. Having a good counter punch to clear ranged units or take objectives will be important.

Last consider some utility options. Cultists or traitor guard give cheaper objective holders. Raptors can harass shooting units and give you chance to jump in and steal objectives. Bikes offer good mobility as well. The noctolith crown is a cheeky option giving your gunline a 5+ invulnerable save as well. Chaos can also take one knight or war dog unit. Knights are an easy alliance for Iron warriors and can give potent shooting.

Ultimately I'd advise buying what looks goof for you. The best options come and go but you never regret having an army you like the look of. Doubly so during index hammer. This army will be different in the next year when the codexes drop.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will also add that the Iron Warriors offer a wide range of views on the ruinous powers. They range from abhorring the tainted gifts and mutations from the gods, relying on the traditional astartes elements, to agnostic engineers refusing to worship the gods but more than happy to shove a demon into this weeks super weapon to see what you get, and to finally full on chaos worshippers. Plenty of Iron Warriors took marks and some even ascended so the full array of units are available for you.

Thanks for all that! I'm so grateful that people actually responded, I thought it would just be buried in the forum. When it comes to melee I was thinking of taking some Berzerkers in future as the world eaters or CSM index gives a specific no. of points of berzerkers/plague marines you can take so I might convert them. Same with a Juggernaut Lord (though in my lore he'd just be a general type who serves under my warsmith).
Yes, I love the flesh-metal aesthetic of the daemon engines, I'm all for painting them. Cultists will probably be a future investment when I'm done painting most of my marines. I played a game of warhammer with a friend to try out tenth edition, used an Enginseer as a proxy for a sorceror. It's good in my opinion so I'll probably pick one up at some point. Thanks for the tips, and are Rhino's any good? I want to put together a starting army and I'm thinking I'll go for a Termy Lord (because I like his rules and he looks cool) maybe a daemon prince, a rhino, 20 chaos marines, a sorceror in future, maybe.
again, thanks for the advice, is my list any good?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gert wrote:
Firstly, welcome to the Long War.

I would recommend before anything else reading through the rules PDF and getting an understanding of what each unit does and more importantly what Characters can be attached to them.

As it stands, don't get any Terminator Characters before you get Terminator units to go along with them as the characters will just get sniped on their own.

Now onto units:

Spoiler:

Chaos Lord - Solid HQ choice, a free Stratagem each turn is very good.

Sorcerer - Has always been good and continues to be good. Makes enemy units -1 to hit when targeting a unit a Sorcerer is attached to.

Legionaries - Solid, especially when you use Dark Pacts and Marks together. For shooty Legionaries, I recommend giving them Mark of Tzeentch so when you use Dark Pacts you can get Lethal Hits on 5+ instead of 6+. Always take an Icon just in case you fail your Dark Pact roll. You should attach Sorcerers to Legionaries for that -1 to hit against them. Legionaries also get to re-roll 1s to wound in combat, or all failed wounds if the enemy unit is within range of an objective.

Cultists - These have sticky objectives and are dirt cheap. Useful as a backline unit while your Legionaries punch forward.

Havocs - Solid. Give them Mark of Nurgle to get Sustained Hits on a 5+ when you use Dark Pacts.

Helbrutes - Bonkers good. Helbrutes have an aura buff that gives every unit within 6" both Sustained Hits and Lethal Hits when they activate Dark Pacts. I take three of them for maximum coverage. Pretty good at killing too.

Rhinos - They go zoom. Basic transport stuff.

Terminators - Eh, nothing to write home about. They're fine but I've found that more bodies are better than Terminators.

Noise Marines - Pretty good. Basically useful as a mid-range extra Havoc unit. Their ability causes a unit to take a Battleshock test every time they get hit, so it can be useful as a way to break an enemy's hold on an objective.

That list is of units that I have used so far, siphoned from my HH Iron Warrior and Traitor Guard armies.

played a game with a friend. I used mark of tzeentch before you posted this and it works very well with my boltguns. I used a techpriest as a proxy for a sorceror, it's good in the game so I'll pick one up. Rhino, definitely. Chaos contemptor and helbrute a must. Will get Havocs and some cultists. I'll still get a termie lord over a normal one for the lore. I don't play competitive so I think it'll work. Thanks for the tips mate.

 bullisariuscowl wrote:

Breton wrote:
I'd also look at the Iron Hands options from the Loyalist lists. If I were playing Iron Legion, I'd think long and hard about playing with Iron Hands rules. IW are more of an Undivided - so if you're already skipping the Daemonics - I feel like OOM, Iron Hands Iron Father etc and OOM is actually more representative of their feel.

thanks, I think I'll stick with traitors as I love their lore. Not being able to use daemons is alright with me as I'll probably use some berzerkers or plague marines and convert them to look like marked iron warriors. Will definitely look into Hands' units for kitbashing though.

Oh still use the lore, I'm just saying use the Iron Hands rules (if it fits for you) - beind Undivided the Dark Pacts etc rules might not fit Iron Warriors - you can still use Iron Hands Models - just might have to swap some "Counts As"

 bullisariuscowl wrote:

Thanks for all that! I'm so grateful that people actually responded, I thought it would just be buried in the forum. When it comes to melee I was thinking of taking some Berzerkers in future as the world eaters or CSM index gives a specific no. of points of berzerkers/plague marines you can take so I might convert them. Same with a Juggernaut Lord (though in my lore he'd just be a general type who serves under my warsmith).
Yes, I love the flesh-metal aesthetic of the daemon engines, I'm all for painting them. Cultists will probably be a future investment when I'm done painting most of my marines. I played a game of warhammer with a friend to try out tenth edition, used an Enginseer as a proxy for a sorceror. It's good in my opinion so I'll probably pick one up at some point. Thanks for the tips, and are Rhino's any good? I want to put together a starting army and I'm thinking I'll go for a Termy Lord (because I like his rules and he looks cool) maybe a daemon prince, a rhino, 20 chaos marines, a sorceror in future, maybe.
again, thanks for the advice, is my list any good?

Rhinos are definitely as up as they've been in recent memory. You'd probably have to go back to 4th or 5th edition to find a time they were this good. The main determination though on their utility is board side. If you play the GW minimum recommendation as mandatory, transports have less value since you can reliably cross the board by the end of turn 1 or start of turn 2. If you play on larger ones like the old 48" x 72" The transports give much more utility since the superior mobility will allow you to redeploy much more easily.

I do miss the mono god units being just part of the CSM book. It should be noted they'll almost always be better in their own book but no reason to not include them. They do miss out on a lot of your rules though.

Demon princes are solid though be careful how many HQ's you take. CSM have some great HQ options but it's easy to end up to too many HQ units and not enough other stuff to really carry the day.

Overall your list should have good answers for heavy vehicles and monsters like knights, heavy infantry like custodies and terminators, and weapons for mass infantry. If you find you. The rest is just to your liking.

 evil_kiwi_60 wrote:

 bullisariuscowl wrote:

Thanks for all that! I'm so grateful that people actually responded, I thought it would just be buried in the forum. When it comes to melee I was thinking of taking some Berzerkers in future as the world eaters or CSM index gives a specific no. of points of berzerkers/plague marines you can take so I might convert them. Same with a Juggernaut Lord (though in my lore he'd just be a general type who serves under my warsmith).
Yes, I love the flesh-metal aesthetic of the daemon engines, I'm all for painting them. Cultists will probably be a future investment when I'm done painting most of my marines. I played a game of warhammer with a friend to try out tenth edition, used an Enginseer as a proxy for a sorceror. It's good in my opinion so I'll probably pick one up at some point. Thanks for the tips, and are Rhino's any good? I want to put together a starting army and I'm thinking I'll go for a Termy Lord (because I like his rules and he looks cool) maybe a daemon prince, a rhino, 20 chaos marines, a sorceror in future, maybe.
again, thanks for the advice, is my list any good?

Rhinos are definitely as up as they've been in recent memory. You'd probably have to go back to 4th or 5th edition to find a time they were this good. The main determination though on their utility is board side. If you play the GW minimum recommendation as mandatory, transports have less value since you can reliably cross the board by the end of turn 1 or start of turn 2. If you play on larger ones like the old 48" x 72" The transports give much more utility since the superior mobility will allow you to redeploy much more easily.

I do miss the mono god units being just part of the CSM book. It should be noted they'll almost always be better in their own book but no reason to not include them. They do miss out on a lot of your rules though.

Demon princes are solid though be careful how many HQ's you take. CSM have some great HQ options but it's easy to end up to too many HQ units and not enough other stuff to really carry the day.

Overall your list should have good answers for heavy vehicles and monsters like knights, heavy infantry like custodies and terminators, and weapons for mass infantry. If you find you. The rest is just to your liking.

okay. Do you have any recommendations for 1, heavy vehicle killing, 2,heavy infantry killing, and 3, mass infantry? anti tank might work against mass infantry like grots or cultists. Would a vindicator be good?

 Gert wrote:
Firstly, welcome to the Long War.

I would recommend before anything else reading through the rules PDF and getting an understanding of what each unit does and more importantly what Characters can be attached to them.

As it stands, don't get any Terminator Characters before you get Terminator units to go along with them as the characters will just get sniped on their own.

Now onto units:

Spoiler:

Chaos Lord - Solid HQ choice, a free Stratagem each turn is very good.

Sorcerer - Has always been good and continues to be good. Makes enemy units -1 to hit when targeting a unit a Sorcerer is attached to.

Legionaries - Solid, especially when you use Dark Pacts and Marks together. For shooty Legionaries, I recommend giving them Mark of Tzeentch so when you use Dark Pacts you can get Lethal Hits on 5+ instead of 6+. Always take an Icon just in case you fail your Dark Pact roll. You should attach Sorcerers to Legionaries for that -1 to hit against them. Legionaries also get to re-roll 1s to wound in combat, or all failed wounds if the enemy unit is within range of an objective.

Cultists - These have sticky objectives and are dirt cheap. Useful as a backline unit while your Legionaries punch forward.

Havocs - Solid. Give them Mark of Nurgle to get Sustained Hits on a 5+ when you use Dark Pacts.

Helbrutes - Bonkers good. Helbrutes have an aura buff that gives every unit within 6" both Sustained Hits and Lethal Hits when they activate Dark Pacts. I take three of them for maximum coverage. Pretty good at killing too.

Rhinos - They go zoom. Basic transport stuff.

Terminators - Eh, nothing to write home about. They're fine but I've found that more bodies are better than Terminators.

Noise Marines - Pretty good. Basically useful as a mid-range extra Havoc unit. Their ability causes a unit to take a Battleshock test every time they get hit, so it can be useful as a way to break an enemy's hold on an objective.

That list is of units that I have used so far, siphoned from my HH Iron Warrior and Traitor Guard armies.

should I use mark of granddaddy Nurgle on a Rhino and use Tzeentch on the other? Is that a good idea or a bad one?

It really doesn't matter for the Rhino, the damage output is so minimal.
At best you get access to a Stratagem that would be better utilised on literally any other unit.

Don't forget about allies. Soul Grinders are great for damage output, as are War Dog Brigands. Plague Marines cost the same as Legionairies and have the same OC but are tougher and have more dangerous weapons. They can't take leaders, though, except for palanquin lords and sorcerers who are in Legends.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Don't forget about allies. Soul Grinders are great for damage output, as are War Dog Brigands. Plague Marines cost the same as Legionairies and have the same OC but are tougher and have more dangerous weapons. They can't take leaders, though, except for palanquin lords and sorcerers who are in Legends.

I was thinking of that but I think I'll do that when I have a decent starter army (rhinos, 20/30 legionaries, hqs etc.)
Was also thinking of converting plague marines with wires instead of tentacles and diarrhoea.
Are the smaller chaos knights good this edition?

My army of ironwarriors is

Lord With demonhamer plasmapistol
2 units of legionares plasmagun meltagun, icon
2 rhino's
3 vindicators
2 3 bike's plasmagun, meltagun, plasmapistol
2 units of havocs missle launchers and
lascannons
1 warsmith

Hey all, I finally bought a Chaos Rhino a couple of weeks ago. It painted up quite well and I like how it plays on the tabletop. I accidentally broke off the combi-bolter stand which means I couldn't glue it on but I'm sure no casual player would mind a bolt pistol and chainsword stand in marine as a counts-as for the bolter. If anybody else has any tips for buying stuff then that would be good. I'm aiming for a combat patrol sized force as of now as the Bolt Action winter soviets have really grabbed my attention.