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I'm sure that not all CSM are slavering beasts or cartoon villians and that the lore is full of examples of them having balanced conversations with enemies, slaves or others they are at odds with.

Kind of like RAF & Luftwaffe POWs during the war supposedly saw each other as gentlemen and were relatively cordial even in prison camp settings.

I am a bit of a newbie, so do you have any examples of CSM acting this way (as opposed to KILL MAIM BURN or creepy organ music?

The way First Claw (ADB's Night Lords) interacts with Septimus, Octavia and Nonus can be considered reasonable.

I'd guess most books from the POV of CSM will not paint them as crazy lunatics.
In Lords of Silence you have a Nurgle Lord who's pretty reasonable and talks to a former Guardsman that slowly gets turned into a Poxwalker.
The Iron Warriors in the War of the Beast and in Brutal Kunning are also okay. They're cynics, they have their own sinister goals, but they're not pure evil.

Fabius Bile books are pretty good in terms of interactions with mortals, slaves, mutants and others. They also show the dynamic between different CSM legions that are forced to work together and how they see each other.

Fabius Bile's whole interaction with Captain Kasra of the Red Scimitars in Clonelord. Whilst he is ultimately going to kill him, Bile says he takes no pleasure in it, and talks to him quite respectfully (the favour is of course, not returned by Kasra), particularly when Kasra, whilst chained to his slab is just staring a hole through him as Bile is dissecting his various chapter brothers.

Bile is an Apothecary at the end of the day, and assures him what he is doing is not desecration, but a sacred task that he still dutifully performs.

Yep, Night Lords treat their slaves/ menials a lot better than any other CSM legion. I think this is due to the fact they're not fully Chaos- in D&D terms, they are Lawful Evil. They have the murder ganger's code and love inflicting terror- especially to their servants. They also know Nostramo is gone, so any survivors are rare. One Night Lord even went so far as to chastise another marine who hurt a slave - but not out of fealty or altruism: because it was THEIR slave, dang it- and THEY're the only ones to harm them!

There was also the Iron Warriors short film "Iron Within", where they save Militarum from Drukhari because the planet was a recruiting world millennia ago, and they still had the beacon to summon "The Emperor's Angels". If you haven't seen it, Countepoints40K does a marginally good breakdown on the YouTube.

Ahriman during his trilogy fits the bill pretty well. He actually forgives a fairly major treason from a Tech Priest subordinate because as he said (paraphrased it's been a while),"I want to believe that redemption for one's deeds can exist", and his mental discussions with the Inquisitor who is tailing him are fairly cordial from his end (not from hers heh).

 TheChrispyOne wrote:
Yep, Night Lords treat their slaves/ menials a lot better than any other CSM legion. I think this is due to the fact they're not fully Chaos- in D&D terms, they are Lawful Evil. They have the murder ganger's code and love inflicting terror- especially to their servants. They also know Nostramo is gone, so any survivors are rare. One Night Lord even went so far as to chastise another marine who hurt a slave - but not out of fealty or altruism: because it was THEIR slave, dang it- and THEY're the only ones to harm them!

Yeaaaah, that's not true. First Claw? Absolutely but that's because Talos keeps them in line and the rest of the Warband didn't mess with First Claw (except that one time because of Uzas). Octavia, the Navigator of their ship? She has to be kept unharmed because she's exceptionally vital.

But if you look at any other example of the Night Lords in any other book and get the opposite. They're a Legion of psychopaths and criminals, they don't treat their slaves well.

There was also the Iron Warriors short film "Iron Within", where they save Militarum from Drukhari because the planet was a recruiting world millennia ago, and they still had the beacon to summon "The Emperor's Angels". If you haven't seen it, Countepoints40K does a marginally good breakdown on the YouTube.

I mean...

I've got to be honest, this is the first time I've ever heard the guys who wear people's faces on their faces for a daft laugh are in fact nice.

 Grimtuff wrote:
Fabius Bile's whole interaction with Captain Kasra of the Red Scimitars in Clonelord. Whilst he is ultimately going to kill him, Bile says he takes no pleasure in it, and talks to him quite respectfully (the favour is of course, not returned by Kasra), particularly when Kasra, whilst chained to his slab is just staring a hole through him as Bile is dissecting his various chapter brothers.

Bile is an Apothecary at the end of the day, and assures him what he is doing is not desecration, but a sacred task that he still dutifully performs.

I haven't read the book you're talking about, but to me, this doesn't sound like reasonableness. It sounds more like a symptom of Bile's madness that he would think himself reasonable under such circumstances. Similar to that bit of lore from an old Dark Eldar codex where Urien Rakarth amiably tells a Marine captive that he should be grateful that he's about to be relieved of his skin.

If the Joker started to tell you how he got his scars, would you perk up in genuine interest and think that maybe he's not so bad after all?

.

In the latest Kharn novel, there's a World Eater who has a relatively positive relationship with his slave.

There was also one of the Iron Warriors novels- I think Storm of iron, where a slave was forced to polish a CSM's armor.. But the armor slowly corrupted the slave and got it to wear it, and that person somehow got "Upgraded" to a CSM. I think it was a woman too- which makes the crazed demonic powers... more progressive than the Imperium? This is more an example of a slave taking the initiative than being treated better- but when your only other options are death, torture, or soul torture- wishing for death.. yeah, I'd say it was a comeup.

As others have said, Fabius Bile is a good case study. He has his glandhounds who he has genuine love for but also mutants and other creations that worship him as their maker and he treats (from my perspective not his) with a sense of apathy that a callous god might have. He needs them to perform functions in his domain but doesn’t care much for them and even plans to put down the occasional armed rebellion.

He treats his Homo Novus with personal pride and equality as they are his masterpiece

There are examples in the book “Khan” of World Eaters treating their human assistants with huge respect including taking the time to watch them compete in the fighting pits. However some of the world eaters just see them as chaff.

See I would argue watching slaves kill each other doesn't show any sort of reasonable treatment because it's all for entertainment purposes.
Reasonable treatment would comparable to that of a standard Loyalist Chapter.

 Gert wrote:
See I would argue watching slaves kill each other doesn't show any sort of reasonable treatment because it's all for entertainment purposes.
Reasonable treatment would comparable to that of a standard Loyalist Chapter.

Soooo.....maintaining a feudal/ death/world just for the sake of getting "better" aspirants?

They aren't serfs or slaves yet so technically its all good.
I get the point being made but surely you understood what I was meaning.

 Gert wrote:
They aren't serfs or slaves yet so technically its all good.
I get the point being made but surely you understood what I was meaning.

No? Because it still shows a general disregard for human life.

I do agree with your previous point about not assuming that the behavior of warband (X) is the common behavior of all warbands of a given Legion, however.

 Gert wrote:
See I would argue watching slaves kill each other doesn't show any sort of reasonable treatment because it's all for entertainment purposes.
Reasonable treatment would comparable to that of a standard Loyalist Chapter.

On the WE ships (at that time) the human crew weren’t forced to fight to the death but they had their own culture of violence. Probably they had also fallen to Khorne and were shadowing the culture of the world eaters

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

No? Because it still shows a general disregard for human life.

Does it? It's not like Chapters force a world into Feral status deliberately just to get recruits. Well not as a rule anyway.
Secondly, not all Astartes homeworlds or recruiting worlds are Feral or Feudal.

Also, if we're widening the pool to include homeworlds, then my point still stands that reasonable treatment isn't going to be found with Chaos Warbands.
On Fenris or Cretacia it's a rough life but thats just the planet. On Sicarius or the Plague Planet, the best a person can hope for is a quick death early on in life and even then that's not a guarantee because that planet is soaked in Warp energy and infested with Daemons that will use your soul as an entrée.
Getting munched by a Carnasaur is the circle of life, getting picked as a random sacrifice or as an "art project" for a bored Heretic Astartes is not.

I think a lot of the Night Lords looking after their serfs (who if you think are possibly the legion least likely to do so!) just comes from the fact ADB has written about them.

He does a tremendous job with the 'bad guys' and making them relatable, rather than two-dimensional cackling, evil bad guys. I think he also does well with the 'suspension of disbelief' part, which is very difficult in such a fantastical/nonsensical universe. Namely; how would any army, let alone marines who would presumably have a logistical chain stretching back through dozens of menials, function at all if they killed all of their staff?

The NL trilogy is excellent but the Exalted/Broken Aquila aren't representative of your average band of CSM.
I mean take a look at how the Black Legion use their slaves and cultists in the same series and you'd get a much better idea of what life is like for a Chaos slave.

 Gert wrote:
The NL trilogy is excellent but the Exalted/Broken Aquila aren't representative of your average band of CSM.
I mean take a look at how the Black Legion use their slaves and cultists in the same series and you'd get a much better idea of what life is like for a Chaos slave.

I don’t believe there is a typical experience if you live In a choas society, I think it’s as. Aired as life in the imperium

The law of averages says you are wrong and so does years of 40k background.

Your average slave in a Chaos Warband lives a short life and is likely to be sacrificed or possessed by a Daemon. They might get "lucky" (and I use that term very very lightly) and get picked for bridge duty on a ship, but even then they're probably going to get infused with Warp energy and become one with their station as part of the ship.
That or they'll end up as canon fodder for their masters and herded into the guns of blades of the foe.
A child might get picked to become a new Astartes but the failures of the Heretic Astartes don't often get the chance to become Chapter Serfs if they prove unsuitable. Chances are they're going to get horribly mutated by the geneseed used by Heretic Astartes and shoved out of an airlock.
Slaves in the service of a Chaos Warband don't even have the false hope of their souls being brought to the Emperor's side, they know the horrors that await the dead and the damned.

Gert wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

No? Because it still shows a general disregard for human life.

Does it? It's not like Chapters force a world into Feral status deliberately just to get recruits. Well not as a rule anyway.
Secondly, not all Astartes homeworlds or recruiting worlds are Feral or Feudal.

Also, if we're widening the pool to include homeworlds, then my point still stands that reasonable treatment isn't going to be found with Chaos Warbands.
On Fenris or Cretacia it's a rough life but thats just the planet. On Sicarius or the Plague Planet, the best a person can hope for is a quick death early on in life and even then that's not a guarantee because that planet is soaked in Warp energy and infested with Daemons that will use your soul as an entrée.
Getting munched by a Carnasaur is the circle of life, getting picked as a random sacrifice or as an "art project" for a bored Heretic Astartes is not.

Except that we know that loyalist Scum chapters actively maintain feudal/death worlds for the express purposes of them providing "better aspirants".

And I have trouble understanding of your point of "It's better to be ripped apart and killed by a "natural predator" than a Daemon". Dead is dead. Though I'll agree that no one wants to be an "art project" of some CSM warriors.

Gert wrote:The NL trilogy is excellent but the Exalted/Broken Aquila aren't representative of your average band of CSM.
I mean take a look at how the Black Legion use their slaves and cultists in the same series and you'd get a much better idea of what life is like for a Chaos slave.

But, that isn't really the question. It's more "Is the Broken Aquila/Exalted warband typical of Night Lords warbands. And I'd say that is entirely not known, do to the limited amount that we know about 8th Legion warbands. The warband of the Hunters Premonition seems to closely align with the Exalted's warband in overall ideology, but the warband of Krieg Acerbus? Not so much. So, I'd say that the overall treatment of 8th Legion menials is "chaotic".

As to the OP's original question? I'd guess the Alpha Legion, as they are well known for a heavy reliance on their "operatives".

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Except that we know that loyalist Scum chapters actively maintain feudal/death worlds for the express purposes of them providing "better aspirants".

And I have trouble understanding of your point of "It's better to be ripped apart and killed by a "natural predator" than a Daemon". Dead is dead. Though I'll agree that no one wants to be an "art project" of some CSM warriors.

And Chaos Warbands have their bases on the literal plains of Hell and if they do take a real-space location, it's just as bad.

And "Dead" is not "Dead" when it comes to death by Daemon. A bear isn't going to claim your soul and use it as a plaything until it gets bored and consumes it. Your corpse isn't going to get used as a puppet to bring death and destruction if you get killed by a not-dinosaur.

 Gert wrote:
The law of averages says you are wrong and so does years of 40k background.

Your average slave in a Chaos Warband lives a short life and is likely to be sacrificed or possessed by a Daemon. They might get "lucky" (and I use that term very very lightly) and get picked for bridge duty on a ship, but even then they're probably going to get infused with Warp energy and become one with their station as part of the ship.
That or they'll end up as canon fodder for their masters and herded into the guns of blades of the foe.
A child might get picked to become a new Astartes but the failures of the Heretic Astartes don't often get the chance to become Chapter Serfs if they prove unsuitable. Chances are they're going to get horribly mutated by the geneseed used by Heretic Astartes and shoved out of an airlock.
Slaves in the service of a Chaos Warband don't even have the false hope of their souls being brought to the Emperor's side, they know the horrors that await the dead and the damned.

Years of 40K law says if you can imagine it, it’s happens.

Dark Angles have gotten away with abandoning imperial planets mid compost to go off on their own adventure leaving the humans to die or worse.

The first act of heresy by the sons of Horus was punching humans to death in a desperate attempt to get HoRus to the infirmary as quickly as possible.

Infact the only known chapter to treat humans as equals and they are treated with suspicion by contemporaries.

The difference is CSM don’t operate under some pretence of heroism or divine authority. They have seen through that and embraced the nihilism

At this point, I don't know what point you're even trying to make.

Just because something can happen, doesn't mean it's a common experience, and just because 40k is a big galaxy does not mean there cannot be common occurrences.

 Gert wrote:
At this point, I don't know what point you're even trying to make.

Just because something can happen, doesn't mean it's a common experience, and just because 40k is a big galaxy does not mean there cannot be common occurrences.

What I’m saying is that across the galaxy humans that live in domains ruled by someone who is part of the chaos faction is just as likely to have a good life or hellish life as if they were living within the imperium.

The number of imperial planets that allow the majority of their human population to have a decent quality of life is 10% or less. Based on what I have read. Most humans live a life comparable to indentured labourers and one of the best life choices is to join the AM, a military that offers a very short average life span.

Similarly there are chaos and demon worlds where survival of the fittest is pretty much the rule and anyone hardy enough can carve out a decent life (you need to adjust your idea of a decent life) and there at planets where humans are nothing more than live stock and cannon fodder.

mrFickle wrote:
What I’m saying is that across the galaxy humans that live in domains ruled by someone who is part of the chaos faction is just as likely to have a good life or hellish life as if they were living within the imperium.

That is objectively untrue from every single metric. The Imperium is awful but Chaos is very much worse. That is literally the whole point.

 Gert wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
What I’m saying is that across the galaxy humans that live in domains ruled by someone who is part of the chaos faction is just as likely to have a good life or hellish life as if they were living within the imperium.

That is objectively untrue from every single metric. The Imperium is awful but Chaos is very much worse. That is literally the whole point.

What are the metrics?