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They will end in legends, so you can play them in a friendly game but not in tournament games.

 skeleton wrote:
They will end in legends, so you can play them in a friendly game but not in tournament games.

Just realized it might not be as bad as I thought. The turret options on Malcadors and that new Cadian toy tank with a hole in the bottom are identical, no? If so, a simple case of "counts as" will suffice.

Guard dex points values leaked, should show what got dropped from the new dex

 tauist wrote:

 skeleton wrote:
They will end in legends, so you can play them in a friendly game but not in tournament games.

Just realized it might not be as bad as I thought. The turret options on Malcadors and that new Cadian toy tank with a hole in the bottom are identical, no? If so, a simple case of "counts as" will suffice.

I'm holding off on converting my HH Dracosan into one of the Malcador chassis variants until I see what happens to them.

 tauist wrote:
Guard dex points values leaked, should show what got dropped from the new dex

Regimental Advisors are out. Astropath can shift to an Inquisitorial Retinue. Officer of the Fleet retires and becomes a Rogue Trader.

Not sure about the Master of Ordnance yet - maybe promote him to Castellan.

You mean you can use your advisers in other army's. I never did have the real models for it, my master of ordnance was the extra com from the foreworld commandsquad, officer of the fleet the pilot from the basis set with the downd flyer and an extra gsc spyker.

 tauist wrote:
Guard dex points values leaked, should show what got dropped from the new dex

Sentinel squadrons got dropped to 1-2 models rather than 1-3. That seems... odd, since they aren't sold in a 2-pack.

Ratlings can now be 5 or 10, so big sniper squads.

Looks like the Regimental Attaches (ordnance & fleet officers, astropath) got nuked. (Plus the generic infantry stuff, which we already knew) I'm a little surprised that the priest survived, but I guess they're selling the blackstone fortress priest individually now.

Tank commander is now Leman Russ Commander (so no confusion with the Rogal Dorn Commander)
Apart from the new stuff (including the Kill Team jump troops (Aquiilons)) that's the all that I see.

Krieg command squad is 6 models, so the commissar is mandatory.

The combined arms detachment lost 'Kurov's Aquila' enhancement ability for 'Reactive Command,' which is 15 points rather than 40. (for all that points matter in the codex version. Lots of units points got reverted or changed from the recent MFM)

Voss wrote:
Sentinel squadrons got dropped to 1-2 models rather than 1-3. That seems... odd, since they aren't sold in a 2-pack.

No, it makes perfect sense; the new GW unit size corporate philosophy is one or two boxes, no more. Buy one box for a squad of 1, or two for a squad of 2.

Huh. The Krieg squad options got even worse.
Its almost impressive.

Now there are two groups of options.
0-2 models can take a flamer, grenade launcher or long las (no duplicates, unless 20 man squad)
and
0-2 models can take a meltagun, plasma gun or lasgun & vox (also no duplicates, unless 20 men)


BUT, all the special weapons (so, everything except the vox) are limited to 2 total (4 total if 20 man squad)
So you can take 0-2 special weapons and 0-2 special weapons, as long as you only take 2 special weapons. or 2 and a vox. (or 0-4 + 0-4, but max of 4 (+vox) for 20 man squad)

Its also all laid out with asterisks, so people are going to misread it.

----
Also the medi-pack is assigned to a model now (who has to keep is his lasgun, and can't double up with a vox), but that seems reasonable.

 tauist wrote:
Guard dex points values leaked, should show what got dropped from the new dex

Is the second page out?

 LunarSol wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Guard dex points values leaked, should show what got dropped from the new dex

Is the second page out?

So mostly it just renames of things. Harker, Straken and the Attaches being cut along with 3 model Sentinels.

Voss wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Guard dex points values leaked, should show what got dropped from the new dex

Sentinel squadrons got dropped to 1-2 models rather than 1-3. That seems... odd, since they aren't sold in a 2-pack.

It's standard - unit sizes are 1-2 boxes if it's a small unit, or 0.5-1 boxes if it's a big unit. Very few units have made it out of the initial indices into codex with units made from 3 boxes of models.

Voss wrote:Huh. The Krieg squad options got even worse.
Its almost impressive.

Now there are two groups of options.
0-2 models can take a flamer, grenade launcher or long las (no duplicates, unless 20 man squad)
and
0-2 models can take a meltagun, plasma gun or lasgun & vox (also no duplicates, unless 20 men)


BUT, all the special weapons (so, everything except the vox) are limited to 2 total (4 total if 20 man squad)
So you can take 0-2 special weapons and 0-2 special weapons, as long as you only take 2 special weapons. or 2 and a vox. (or 0-4 + 0-4, but max of 4 (+vox) for 20 man squad)

Its also all laid out with asterisks, so people are going to misread it.

----
Also the medi-pack is assigned to a model now (who has to keep is his lasgun, and can't double up with a vox), but that seems reasonable.

That is impressively messy, especially the watchmaster who can effectively take any combo of wargear other than the boltgun (pretty sure the boltpistol/ccw is a typo and should be the full size bolter) - but needs 3 full entries on the wargear section to say "take any of these pistols or melee weapons".

No duplicate gear restrictions are at peak silliness in armies like guard - if you play any of the 3 official remaining regiments the only way to build your army is buying loads of duplicate boxes, it still escapes me how not allowing mixing and matching from different boxes improves the game.

Ouch, I just read that the starter Krieg box is only 310 points.


I do like the different versions of the artillery piece that comes in the box

The Deathriders also just seem like worse roughriders. Tactically they can reposition in response to movement, so that's potentially interesting.

But weapons are frag lance only (no melta head), no goads, and the sergeant gets 3 attacks instead of 4 with a power saber. The steeds get -1 AP, however. [Edit]: ah. They all get power sabers. So a decent amount of AP at least, but no high strength attacks.

 Insularum wrote:

Voss wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Guard dex points values leaked, should show what got dropped from the new dex

Sentinel squadrons got dropped to 1-2 models rather than 1-3. That seems... odd, since they aren't sold in a 2-pack.

It's standard - unit sizes are 1-2 boxes if it's a small unit, or 0.5-1 boxes if it's a big unit. Very few units have made it out of the initial indices into codex with units made from 3 boxes of models.

This one bothers me. I don't get it. They now can/will sell you fewer sentinels. The fact it's a unit isn't the problem because you can take pairs still. So why? Bit weird to upend 2-3 decades of precedent and fluff for no reason.

So what do normal scions gain for the 5 points cost above jump pack scions?

Dudeface wrote:

 Insularum wrote:

Voss wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Guard dex points values leaked, should show what got dropped from the new dex

Sentinel squadrons got dropped to 1-2 models rather than 1-3. That seems... odd, since they aren't sold in a 2-pack.

It's standard - unit sizes are 1-2 boxes if it's a small unit, or 0.5-1 boxes if it's a big unit. Very few units have made it out of the initial indices into codex with units made from 3 boxes of models.

This one bothers me. I don't get it. They now can/will sell you fewer sentinels. The fact it's a unit isn't the problem because you can take pairs still. So why? Bit weird to upend 2-3 decades of precedent and fluff for no reason.

Welcome to 10th edition, you must be new!

Dudeface wrote:

 Insularum wrote:

Voss wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Guard dex points values leaked, should show what got dropped from the new dex

Sentinel squadrons got dropped to 1-2 models rather than 1-3. That seems... odd, since they aren't sold in a 2-pack.

It's standard - unit sizes are 1-2 boxes if it's a small unit, or 0.5-1 boxes if it's a big unit. Very few units have made it out of the initial indices into codex with units made from 3 boxes of models.

This one bothers me. I don't get it. They now can/will sell you fewer sentinels. The fact it's a unit isn't the problem because you can take pairs still. So why? Bit weird to upend 2-3 decades of precedent and fluff for no reason.

Take your comment, and apply it everywhere in the game. 20 man chaos marine squads? Buy more models. You want duplicate weapon options? Buy more models. Sometimes some people are allergic to success.

ph34r wrote:So what do normal scions gain for the 5 points cost above jump pack scions?

More guns, less deepstrike.

 ph34r wrote:
So what do normal scions gain for the 5 points cost above jump pack scions?

Perhaps Infiltrators, Stealth and a Scout move?

tauist wrote:Guard dex points values leaked, should show what got dropped from the new dex

But where is the second page!

Ninja'd!

Lathe Biosas wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
So what do normal scions gain for the 5 points cost above jump pack scions?

Perhaps Infiltrators, Stealth and a Scout move?

A stronger weapon allotment.

Currently, 10 Scions can have 4 special weapons (no more than 2 each). Aquilons can a Plasma/Melta, a Long-Las, the rarely shot Sentry Gun and the option to swap out carbines for pistols.

I guess Straken, Harker, and the ordnance guy/navy guy/other dude I'm forgetting going away is part of the general purge of resin/metal models from the range. At least they didn't kill off Ezekiel from my Dark Angels. Maybe that means he's crossing the Rubicon Primaris in 11th.

 LunarSol wrote:
So mostly it just renames of things. Harker, Straken and the Attaches being cut along with 3 model Sentinels.

If they are focusing on specific regiments, next codex could see the Catachan wave, with Straken and Harker returning then, maybe a kill team of Catachan devils melee guard.

I wonder how Kasrkin are going to be handled versus the Tempestus Scions?

 Insularum wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Insularum wrote:

Voss wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Guard dex points values leaked, should show what got dropped from the new dex

Sentinel squadrons got dropped to 1-2 models rather than 1-3. That seems... odd, since they aren't sold in a 2-pack.

It's standard - unit sizes are 1-2 boxes if it's a small unit, or 0.5-1 boxes if it's a big unit. Very few units have made it out of the initial indices into codex with units made from 3 boxes of models.

This one bothers me. I don't get it. They now can/will sell you fewer sentinels. The fact it's a unit isn't the problem because you can take pairs still. So why? Bit weird to upend 2-3 decades of precedent and fluff for no reason.

Take your comment, and apply it everywhere in the game. 20 man chaos marine squads? Buy more models. You want duplicate weapon options? Buy more models. Sometimes some people are allergic to success.

I really don't understand what you're trying to say. You've gone from being able to field 18 sentinels to 12. There is no buying more models.

and everyone who has 18 Sentinels need to put 6 in the shelf and buy something new to fill the points again = more models sold

everyone who has a number not divided by 2 might also buy more sentinels to get the 2 per units, = more models sold

changing things always results in more models sold, not necessary the same models but overall

 kodos wrote:
and everyone who has 18 Sentinels need to put 6 in the shelf and buy something new to fill the points again = more models sold

everyone who has a number not divided by 2 might also buy more sentinels to get the 2 per units, = more models sold

changing things always results in more models sold, not necessary the same models but overall

Gotcha, hadn't considered it from that angle. That said I doubt anyone was rocking 18 sentinels and had exactly 2k worth of guard!

I'm really not a fan of the planned obsolence business model when it comes to miniature wargames. Its apparently not enough to nickle and dime existing players with constant book churn, but they also need to be pushed buying more models even if they already invested heavily into them. If they want to keep this up, the fact that you need to assemble and paint the models as well will become the biggest bottleneck for their sales model. Ergo, prebuilt, prepainted models will be an inevitability..

I hope next edition this 2 box max thing gets rolled back. Squadrons ought to be 3 not 2, and hordes of 20 are a joke when they should be 30 or more.

There are n people at GWHQ - probably in Marketing and/or management - who need a good kick in the junk and telling to keep their noses out of it.