Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Now that we have a few books out, I'm just wondering which detachments (including enhancements and strats) people are enjoying.

Of the two 10th edition books I own ('nids and 'crons), I haven't had a chance to actually play with the new detachments myself yet. On paper, however, I'm finding myself excited about the detachments that change up how units or even the whole army plays. For example, the Vanguard detachment has the potential to turn all your vanguard units into cagey assassins that disrupt the enemy's plans while the rest of your army does its thing. The assimilation swarm kind of turns a bunch of your feeder beasts into support units and gives you more reason to swarm around objectives. For 'crons, the hyperphase crypt seems like it will match my army's fluff really well and adds a level of mobility/trickery to the army that isn't really present without it. I don't love how the canoptek detachment just seems to be about killing things better, but I do like that GW is playing around with their "power nexus" rules or whatever it's called.

Basically, I'm really enjoying (the idea of) detachment that shake up how an army plays. They're not just bland lethality boosters; they're ways to get multiple army playstyles out of a single book.

It seems to be a very winners get more thing though. I have no idea how it is going to work for armies like knights, custodes or GK. Or rather I fear that the detachments are going to work the way the not-White Scar detachment works aka it focuses on an aspect of a chapter and a build, but with no units in the codex to make an army out of it. the 1st Company detachment is mind blowing. I have no idea how someone could write the rules for index, then change (nerf) the rules for detachment specific units and then think that it somehow a valid way to play.

The good detachments are just efficiency multipliers in how fast they can kill other stuff. Minus the detachment rules, the aggresor build with Calgar and Ventris would be played the same way it does right now. The 1st company or "mounted" detachment didn't open new ways to play, in fact those when joined with legends and removing units/rule somehow feels worse and less flexible then the index. Which is mind blowing.

And then there is the ad mecha codex with its detachments. A codex where rules are for shoting, meaning any melee unit gets 0 synergy. Robots requier a special detachment to just get the basic army rules running, and it is still bad.

Now if the every edition patern is going to be followed, some armies may get rules galor in their book and multiple ways to play on top of new detachments etc. But right now it mostly looks rather meh. Spam dreadnoughts and tanks, only now you get extra rules. Good when you want to spam those two, not so great if you want to play something else.

But who knows, maybe the the DA book is going to be fun, and let all the terminator and biker fans have a way to play what they want to play. If not then the RW detachment consisting of a chaplain and outridders is going to be "fun to see in action", as we say it here.

None of the Adeptus Mechanicus ones for me, that's for sure

Well, at the moment every army (all flavors of my Eldar) I'm using only has one detachment....

The Eldar one with the fate dice gives me alot of joy.
The Drukhari one is alright.

Explorators and Skitarii are both really clicking for me.

Daemons generic one is okay.
I'm curious what the god-specific ones will be like, though.

I think the issue with detachments is that its one thing to make your army different, and its another to "make your list different".

I.E. Given DE have been stuck in the deep freeze, I've been dabbling with Ad Mech. They get 5 detachments. Rad-Zone Corps and Explorer Maniple are notionally "everyman" selections and both are I think kind of similar - because their benefits are aimed at board control. Your deployment zone/objectives are lava. I think you can debate which one is better - or at least which list works better with which one.

Whereas Skitarii Hunter Cohort, Data-Psalm Conclave and Cohort Cybernetica feel very much "thy shalt spam a handful of units from an already not overly large codex". Both Data-Psalm and Cybernetica also feel dangerously close to "these rules should just be standard" (although buffing breachers would be unnecessary). The Hunter Cohort is probably the best - but also imo the least fun as a result.

Basically I'm worried DE are going to get the same 5 breakdown. Lets say the Coven's detachment rule is the best - and we all just spam Wracks and Talos as a result. Yay I guess?

Not a big fan of the Tau one, we have to wait until Turn 3 onwards for any benefit? In a shooting-focused army which had a lot of stuff gimped in the new rules?

I like the current CSM one.

Dark Pacts is fun to roll for and combined with the 40k mission deck I get to utter such statements as "I activate Dark Pacts on my Dark Brethren!" and "I activate my final gambit!", which makes for barrels of fun.

I LOOOOOVE the Drukhari one.

I get to take up to three mediocre characters! And each one I take, I get a whole Pain token!

I also get a stratagem that lets me swap 1 command point for a 3:1 pain token ratio IF I have all three of those characters alive and IF they are all on the board and not in transports. And IF I fulfill those criteria, I can have the amazing efficiency of allowing my 1 shooting unit and 2 melee (ish) units to re-roll to hit in either the melee or shooting phase.

Yeah, actually, now I think about it...the detachment doesn't spark joy. Actually it's quite far from joy.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I LOOOOOVE the Drukhari one.

I get to take up to three mediocre characters! And each one I take, I get a whole Pain token!

I also get a stratagem that lets me swap 1 command point for a 3:1 pain token ratio IF I have all three of those characters alive and IF they are all on the board and not in transports. And IF I fulfill those criteria, I can have the amazing efficiency of allowing my 1 shooting unit and 2 melee (ish) units to re-roll to hit in either the melee or shooting phase.

Yeah, actually, now I think about it...the detachment doesn't spark joy. Actually it's quite far from joy.

You can upgrade two of those mediocre characters to epic Heroes who still qualify.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I LOOOOOVE the Drukhari one.

I get to take up to three mediocre characters! And each one I take, I get a whole Pain token!

I also get a stratagem that lets me swap 1 command point for a 3:1 pain token ratio IF I have all three of those characters alive and IF they are all on the board and not in transports. And IF I fulfill those criteria, I can have the amazing efficiency of allowing my 1 shooting unit and 2 melee (ish) units to re-roll to hit in either the melee or shooting phase.

Yeah, actually, now I think about it...the detachment doesn't spark joy. Actually it's quite far from joy.

Thank you. I needed that.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I LOOOOOVE the Drukhari one.

I get to take up to three mediocre characters! And each one I take, I get a whole Pain token!

It's true that this isn't much of a detachment ability; starting with 3 extra pain tokens isn't what I want in a detachment rule, because it doesn't scale, and it doesn't provide an ongoing effect.

However...

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

I also get a stratagem that lets me swap 1 command point for a 3:1 pain token ratio IF I have all three of those characters alive and IF they are all on the board and not in transports. And IF I fulfill those criteria, I can have the amazing efficiency of allowing my 1 shooting unit and 2 melee (ish) units to re-roll to hit in either the melee or shooting phase.

Yeah, actually, now I think about it...the detachment doesn't spark joy. Actually it's quite far from joy.

This the thing that makes it work. You really underestimate the value of pain tokens- empowered can be used in the movement phase too, in which case it lets you reroll advance or charge. Additionally, being Empowered interacts with the Crucible of Malediction and Blood Dancer enhancements. It interacts with the Archon's Leader Ability, allowing every model in the unit to reroll wounds in addition to rerolling hits- and remember, that unit could include both a Court and Kabalites if you want, so that's 15 models. It also interacts with the Succubus' leader ability, giving her unit First Strike.

Also, as another post mentioned, Lelith IS a Succubus and Urien IS a Haemonculus, so if you think the generics are mediocre, take the named instead. Better yet, take both to have some redundancy, for the purpose of Alliance of Agony- and remember, using that strat is free if it's the Archon that uses it and he has the Labyrinthine Cunning.

The detachment itself isn't that great, but it does facilitate a nice suite of force multipliers being available earlier than they would otherwise be. For me, it's the Alliance of Agony strat/ Labyrinthine Cunning enhancement that I'm happy about, and the detachment rule improves my ability to reliably use that strategy- especially in the early game.

but god forbid we'd be able to see a helion gang.

Canoptek Court; I haven't even glanced at any of the other Necron detachments.

PenitentJake wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I LOOOOOVE the Drukhari one.

I get to take up to three mediocre characters! And each one I take, I get a whole Pain token!

It's true that this isn't much of a detachment ability; starting with 3 extra pain tokens isn't what I want in a detachment rule, because it doesn't scale, and it doesn't provide an ongoing effect.

However...

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

I also get a stratagem that lets me swap 1 command point for a 3:1 pain token ratio IF I have all three of those characters alive and IF they are all on the board and not in transports. And IF I fulfill those criteria, I can have the amazing efficiency of allowing my 1 shooting unit and 2 melee (ish) units to re-roll to hit in either the melee or shooting phase.

Yeah, actually, now I think about it...the detachment doesn't spark joy. Actually it's quite far from joy.

This the thing that makes it work. You really underestimate the value of pain tokens- empowered can be used in the movement phase too, in which case it lets you reroll advance or charge. Additionally, being Empowered interacts with the Crucible of Malediction and Blood Dancer enhancements. It interacts with the Archon's Leader Ability, allowing every model in the unit to reroll wounds in addition to rerolling hits- and remember, that unit could include both a Court and Kabalites if you want, so that's 15 models. It also interacts with the Succubus' leader ability, giving her unit First Strike.

Also, as another post mentioned, Lelith IS a Succubus and Urien IS a Haemonculus, so if you think the generics are mediocre, take the named instead. Better yet, take both to have some redundancy, for the purpose of Alliance of Agony- and remember, using that strat is free if it's the Archon that uses it and he has the Labyrinthine Cunning.

The detachment itself isn't that great, but it does facilitate a nice suite of force multipliers being available earlier than they would otherwise be. For me, it's the Alliance of Agony strat/ Labyrinthine Cunning enhancement that I'm happy about, and the detachment rule improves my ability to reliably use that strategy- especially in the early game.

The point of friction for me isn't necessarily the detachment itself; it's that it's our only option right now, and it builds a big chunk of your army for you in a way that none(?) of the other detachments really do. Like, they might reward you for taking certain units, but they don't withold benefits unless you take 3 specific HQs who then basically force you to take 3 specific bodyguards and probably the transports for them as well. And because some of our units are just kind of bad right now (ex: wyches and succubus), it's extra annoying when you're forced to take them.

Imagine if pre-codex marines couldn't use their doctrines unless they specifically took a captain, librarian, and techmarine and each of those had to be fielded with assault marines, tacticals, and infiltrators specifically, and also they were all super squishy so you pretty much had to invest in transports for them to avoid dying before they can do anything.

If we currently had access to a variety of detachments, the current one would be seen as just another option that might be useful to those who happen to want to run the mandatory units.

Continuing on about the Drukharidetachment rule....

 Wyldhunt wrote:

The point of friction for me isn't necessarily the detachment itself; it's that it's our only option right now, and it builds a big chunk of your army for you in a way that none(?) of the other detachments really do. Like, they might reward you for taking certain units, but they don't withold benefits unless you take 3 specific HQs who then basically force you to take 3 specific bodyguards and probably the transports for them as well. And because some of our units are just kind of bad right now (ex: wyches and succubus), it's extra annoying when you're forced to take them.

Imagine if pre-codex marines couldn't use their doctrines unless they specifically took a captain, librarian, and techmarine and each of those had to be fielded with assault marines, tacticals, and infiltrators specifically, and also they were all super squishy so you pretty much had to invest in transports for them to avoid dying before they can do anything.

Meh. It's a ONE TIME +1/+2/+3 pain token bonus. Based upon how many different types of characters you have.
If you feel obligated to spend your points on all 3 of those units (+ thier bodyguard units ++ a transport for each) vs spending your pts on whatever you'd actually prefer? Then that's a flaw in how you approach army building. But if you're OK with sacrificing your happiness for a few re-rolls....

Me? I feel no such pressure.
I know I can make & run a list of stuff I like & do just fine with only receiving +1 extra pain token.
Oh don't get me wrong, more pain tokens would be handy. But not so much so as to force me into running units I don't even want in my army.

ccs wrote:
Continuing on about the Drukharidetachment rule....

 Wyldhunt wrote:

The point of friction for me isn't necessarily the detachment itself; it's that it's our only option right now, and it builds a big chunk of your army for you in a way that none(?) of the other detachments really do. Like, they might reward you for taking certain units, but they don't withold benefits unless you take 3 specific HQs who then basically force you to take 3 specific bodyguards and probably the transports for them as well. And because some of our units are just kind of bad right now (ex: wyches and succubus), it's extra annoying when you're forced to take them.

Imagine if pre-codex marines couldn't use their doctrines unless they specifically took a captain, librarian, and techmarine and each of those had to be fielded with assault marines, tacticals, and infiltrators specifically, and also they were all super squishy so you pretty much had to invest in transports for them to avoid dying before they can do anything.

Meh. It's a ONE TIME +1/+2/+3 pain token bonus. Based upon how many different types of characters you have.
If you feel obligated to spend your points on all 3 of those units (+ thier bodyguard units ++ a transport for each) vs spending your pts on whatever you'd actually prefer? Then that's a flaw in how you approach army building. But if you're OK with sacrificing your happiness for a few re-rolls....

Me? I feel no such pressure.
I know I can make & run a list of stuff I like & do just fine with only receiving +1 extra pain token.
Oh don't get me wrong, more pain tokens would be handy. But not so much so as to force me into running units I don't even want in my army.

That's what I was doing when running my dark eldar (now temporarily shelved) this edition. But at that point we're kind of just playing without a detachment, right? Which, as long as you're enjoying games more power to you, but it doesn't paint the detachment itself in a very good light.

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Canoptek Court; I haven't even glanced at any of the other Necron detachments.

It doesn't have a lot of competition. One is a marketing vehicle to sell monoliths (though it does have other uses), another gives mediocre buffs to destroyer units only.
The 'index' one is one of the better ones that isn't canoptek, because it isn't losing out if you didn't bring unit <x> or go against theme. Themed detachments can be interesting, but not when they're 3/5s of the available options (ie, if space marines)

Honestly for my Dark Angels I've found some decent success with the Gladius Task Force. Just a good all-rounder detachment that works with almost any units you might want to bring.

I'm pretty fond of the Chaos Daemon one, Shadow of Chaos is a nice mechanic but doesn't address all of CD's issues, namely that our Lesser Daemons are squishy as hell and put out very little damage. If we're getting 6 Detachments I'm guessing it'll be the following:

- Tzeench: Sustained 1 on ranged weapons
- Khorne: +1 attacks on charge.
- Nurgle: 5+ FNP
- Slannesh: Charge after advancing.
- Belakor/Undivided: ??
- ??

I'm hoping the God-specific ones don't lock you completely into that god however.

I only own one faction that has a choice of detachments (Admech) and my collection went from 2500pts to 1400pts, so.

We're not playing that lmao.

GW can go feth themselves with that.

@Patientjake

But...just take a chronos. Heck, take 2. They're 50pts each for a Res7 3+/5++ body with an acceptable blast weapon and flamer. And 2 Chronos over a game will repay you FAR more pain tokens than leaning into the detachment and alliance of agony ever will.

On a pure efficiency point of few, swapping 1 CP for 2 pain tokens worth of efficiency isn't a good trade. Also, as I mentioned, of one of these glass boned units is dead, the stratagem doesn't work at all anyway.

Drukhari need a Death Guard tier detachment update with the January update. And I hope they'll get it.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
@Patientjake

But...just take a chronos. Heck, take 2. They're 50pts each for a Res7 3+/5++ body with an acceptable blast weapon and flamer. And 2 Chronos over a game will repay you FAR more pain tokens than leaning into the detachment and alliance of agony ever will.

On a pure efficiency point of few, swapping 1 CP for 2 pain tokens worth of efficiency isn't a good trade. Also, as I mentioned, of one of these glass boned units is dead, the stratagem doesn't work at all anyway.

Drukhari need a Death Guard tier detachment update with the January update. And I hope they'll get it.

Swapping one CP for 2 PT may not be all that, but if your Archon has the Labyrinthine Cunning enhancement, you're not spending the CP- your just getting 2 pain tokens for free on every turn including the first, as long as you keep an Archon, A Succubus and a Haemonculus alive.

The detachment also fits my narrative- the three character will unite for Realspace raids, but back in Commorragh they have their own shadowy agendas an side deals.

My army is 500 points. In order to add a Chronos, my Haemonculus has to kill a creature large enough to become one, because that's how I play this game. List building is based on what happens when I play. Even my 500 point army will be built by playing- I don't yet know which of my Wych Cults will win the right to promote one of their own to the rank of Succubius, or which of my Hellions will become a Beast Master, or how Wych weapons will be distributed between the two Cults (not that this matters right now in 40k, but my models have gestalt profiles and XP tallies for KT/ 40k).

I only figure these things out by playing.

The Realspace Raider detachment perfectly fits my needs at the moment. I need other detachments with the dex so that a) my cult, Kabal and coven can raid realspace independently to gain advantage over their kin or b) directly fight each other in Commorragh when the stakes are high enough justify direct action rather than the cold-war arms race.

Welp, GW took the joy from Canoptek Court...

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Welp, GW took the joy from Canoptek Court...

How so? It looks like they just reigned in the more absurd combos by making it apply to their intended units.