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Hello all! I am incredibly excited for the return of the Old World, and my twin 12-year-old boys have latched on to that excitement and want to get involved, as well. I have the BRB and both army books. I still have some bretonnia models from before and one son is enamored with dwarfs and the other with high elves.

A few basic questions for those with good insight. I don't have all the money in the world, but I'd definitely like to get my boys some models to play with. What do you think is the smallest point size that would be feasible for an actual battle? Obviously we can start learning the rules by just facing off two units versus each other, but what do you think the minimum size would be where the armies could have a decent array of options at their disposal and *feel* like an army, even if its not vast?

Also, I've never played dwarfs before. For those with past experience and who can see what they are capable of now, do you think they will have options beyond a gunline? I don't want to squash what my son likes, but if it's going to be a one-dimensional army, I'd hate to invest in it and have him have a bad experience. Also, presuming it's NOT a one-dimensional army, what would a good core start to that army be? Again, I know how bretonnia works, I know how several other armies work, but I have literally never played as or even against a dwarf army before, so what would be some safe purchases to start out with, do you think?

I appreciate any insight you can give, thanks!

1,000 points is a fine point size. Let's you take a rare choice and a big character without going too crazy. 500 points is a decent skirmish but you're really limited with unit choices (generally no rare, no lord, no 0-1 units per 1,000 points). If you're going for bare minimum then 500 will do.

In my opinion dwarves are never fun and won't be in this edition either, but I hope to be proven wrong and I understand playing as dwarves can be appealing, so no shame here. Besides he's 12... let him get his little stunted vikings. Especially at 500 or 1K I don't think he can too anything too aggregious with them.

In terms of starting with dwarfs? 10-20 warriors with hand weapon and shield, 10 hammerers/ironbreakers, dwarf hero on foot, 10 quarrelers (xbows) would be a great start. For getting up to 1K more infantry and some fun stuff like handguns, an organ gun/cannon, and a gyrocopter. And more of the same infantry.

For smaller points you need to alter the rules a bit
like 50% Characters is way to much for smaller games, rather settle with 1-2 heroes maximum

another point that helps early on is to go with empty bases as spacers or multi-bases so you can use larger units with less models (like having the first or last rank with bases without models, though first rank also makes the game less fiddly to move into contact)

Also as you guys start fresh and play at home, consider non-GW models as it is likely to get 2 armies for your boys for the same price as a single army from GW

for army composition, this is a new game that works very different in the details to prior version, so there is not much out there on information at what really works and how the basic armies should look like to have fun games
standard in general is always to have 1-2 units that can tank (anvils) and 1-2 units as hammers combined with 1-2 shooting units/war machines and to this you add the elite units

Thanks for those comments!

I am definitely looking at Etsy for some really good deals on models. I'm really impressed at how detailed 3d printers are getting to be now. And yeah, I think you're right, I can probably get two armies for the price of a single GW army. Some of the prices that are coming out are simply ridiculous, especially since they're the same old sculpts as before. We will probably splurge on some of the really nice newer sculpts, but fill out the bulk with Etsy type purchases.

I doubt that we'll be playing in any local game stories, certainly not in any official GW events, at least not with my boys. Do you think that simply giving dwarfs a movement stat of 4 is enough so that they don't have to feel like they can only be a static gunline? My son really likes the dwarfs and we seem to have quite a few very nice models available from other sources. And he already loves to paint. So I think we are going to try the dwarfs out, but maybe house rule certain things to make sure that no one is one dimensional.

In completely unrelated stuff, so I don't spam the forum with new threads, I was putting together my Bretonian "Grand Army," which is basically just a list of all models I hope to own and then pull from for specific army lists, and I was thinking about getting a Duke on Hippogriff, pretty much fully decked out, if I ever played a high enough point game. But if memory serves, this guy would be like 450+ points... I mean, I met get him anyway as a paint/display piece, but do people ever run characters like this, so many points/eggs in one basket? What point level game would you even try it if you had the mind to?

Please, new Old World threads is a breath of fresh air next to the dumpster fire of TOW rumors discussion thread. Spam a lot! After all, it rhymes with Camelot, loyal son of Brettonia!

Putting all your eggs in one basket and making the basket unkillable is a time-honored Fantasy tradition. Sometimes conserving your points can be as important as killing. In terms of viability this can be a hypercompetitive move... or just dumping a bunch of points into one dude that will likely die and not make up his points. TOW is still a very new game so I say just try stuff out!

You could theoretically play him in a 1K game and eat up all your character %. I would recommend using him at no less than 2K, or with your opponent's permission.

On a final note I just want to say it's really cool you're supporting your kids getting into the hobby. My brother and I starting playing Warhammer (40K) when we were that age and my dad wanted NO part of it, hehe. To this day he still calls it Warhamster.

Warptide wrote:
Putting all your eggs in one basket and making the basket unkillable is a time-honored Fantasy tradition. Sometimes conserving your points can be as important as killing. In terms of viability this can be a hypercompetitive move... or just dumping a bunch of points into one dude that will likely die and not make up his points. TOW is still a very new game so I say just try stuff out!

That makes a lot of sense! So I will probably get this guy to have in any more competitive games and to have as a show piece, but I probably won't pit him against my 12 year olds unless they want to do the same thing :-)

Warptide wrote:
On a final note I just want to say it's really cool you're supporting your kids getting into the hobby. My brother and I starting playing Warhammer (40K) when we were that age and my dad wanted NO part of it, hehe. To this day he still calls it Warhamster.

My mother tells me that my dad was so excited when I got old enough to play with those old-school green plastic army soldiers because he was excited to be able to play with them again, too! So I guess playing with little army men just runs through the male blood in our family, ha! I also think that games like these can really be beneficial for kids. I mean, goodness, just consider the number of rules and all of the special scenarios and critical thinking that comes out of it... in addition to learning some aspect of tactics, being mentally flexible, and all that kind of stuff. We don't let our kids watch mindless TV shows or play mindless video games, but I encourage them to watch and play things that will actually stimulate their minds. And I really think games like this do just that!

Ah this takes me back... My friends and I got into WFB when we were at school (early-mid 90s) and I played Dwarfs then. The 3" move really clobbered me - especially as we used to play on our rich mate's snooker table... Used to love the little dudes though!

Crispy78 wrote:
Ah this takes me back... My friends and I got into WFB when we were at school (early-mid 90s) and I played Dwarfs then. The 3" move really clobbered me - especially as we used to play on our rich mate's snooker table... Used to love the little dudes though!

Would you have any advice that I could pass on to my son in terms of playing the little dudes?

atawag wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:
Ah this takes me back... My friends and I got into WFB when we were at school (early-mid 90s) and I played Dwarfs then. The 3" move really clobbered me - especially as we used to play on our rich mate's snooker table... Used to love the little dudes though!

Would you have any advice that I could pass on to my son in terms of playing the little dudes?

Don't know how the rules from 30ish years ago compare to TOW! Other than 'don't play on a snooker table and start 3 metres or more from your opponent' - their war machines are generally great. Get cannons and things. I loved Slayers, but I never managed to use them very usefully.

A melee-focussed (as opposed to shooting-focussed) Dwarf army should be more viable in TOW than in previous editions, due to March Column letting them move up the board a little faster. Equip your most important units with Strollaz Rune on their banners, and take a few units of Gyros/Rangers/Miners to distract the enemy while your battle line closes in. The Anvil of Doom would also be a good addition, as it can let a unit move again.

Generally speaking, Dwarfs have three main strategies: Castle, Refused Center, and Echeloned Advance.

The Castle uses a convenient hill, piece of defensive terrain, or the edge of the board to anchor your lines. Deploy your shooting units in-between your combat units (or behind them on a hill) and stand and shoot the enemy as he closes. Advance your best unit (generally Hammerer or Ironbreakers led by a character) up the field to draw the enemy away from your more vulnerable units and to force him to fight a unit he would otherwise avoid.

For a Refused Center, place your shooters in the center of your line and your combat units on either side. Advance your wings forward so if the enemy attacks your shooters he will expose his flanks to counter attacks.

An Echeloned Advance involves deploying your troops in a line, slightly off-center so the edge of the board covers one of your flanks. Place your best combat units close to the board edge and your weaker units towards the center. Advance as fast as possble with your good units while your weaker ones hang back to sheild their open flank. This sort of strategy often works best with few, or even no, shooting units.

God help me, now I want to get my dwarfs back out. I wonder if I can find all my old minis for Prince Uther's Dragon Company???

Saber, thank you for all those good strategies!

Crispy78 wrote:
God help me, now I want to get my dwarfs back out. I wonder if I can find all my old minis for Prince Uther's Dragon Company???

Sounds like a good idea to me!