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Ignorance is generally not a valid defense against Imperial punishment, and often groups are punished by association. I'd expect something along the lines of execution of the leaders and forced induction of the members as slaves or servitors on a forge world.

There would probably be a rise in bitter Van Saar gangs seeking refuge in the underhive though.

GW probably won't do this to one of the major factions though.

I can still see some kind of negotiations for access and reward going on, simply because Necromunda is an important world.

If it was some backwater Agri-World, it’d be a super straight forward reclamation. In, out, not even necessarily a reward for the Governor or discoverer. Just taken.

But given it risks some level of destabilisation of an otherwise peaceful and productive industrialised world? Outright smash and grab would be the last resort. Possibly not far down the list like. Maybe the 5th of 5 options. But still the last one.

Ignorance is no excuse for not following the law or abusing an STC - because clearly the unknowing dim Van Saar likely broke and damaged the STC through their improper use.

Only the Mechanicus truly know now to use an STC!

They'd likely not only claim the STC and anything its directly connected too; but also all the derived tech as well. Paying for or stealing it back and offering bounties once they exhaust the easy to catch users and equipment.


The Nobel houses and such at the top of the Spire would have little to say when there are grand Mechanicus battleships in orbit. At best they might keep the Hive Spire if the STC can be removed. If not the Mechanicus would likely seek to takeover. AT the absolute best the Mechanicus might rule and allow the nobility and other power groups to remain in operation running the Hive so long as they don't get in the way of the Mechanicus; at worst everyone is evicted as it becomes a temple to the Machine God. Likely with the Underhive turning into a refuge and spot where people would flee to try and remain and conduct gorilla warfare from.

Thing is? I don’t know the Mechanicus can just claim an established world, even in that extreme circumstance.

Absolutely they could waltz in with complete authority to seize the STC and indenture House Van Saar. But not the planet. Not without consequence down the line of some kind.

Of course, that’s all politics. And the promise an intact STC holds for the wider Imperium is pretty much supreme clout.

After all, who needs Primarchs when you can have superior Lasguns made to a flawless design plan, increasing the potency of every Imperial Guard Regiment. And the same right up to new Battleships and Grand Cruisers. All made to top specification.

It’s that latter bit which is most tantalising. After all, we know a Lunar Class Cruiser, which is an impressive bit of hardware, was built in orbit of a Feral World.

We’re told the Lunar Class is comparatively easy to build. But I wouldn’t put that down to more simplistic schematics when it’s just likely down to complete schematics. Or at least more complete.

Imagine an Imperium where every industrialised world can now churn out warp capable warships, and superior system defence monitors.

We know most Imperial Worlds are all but invasion proof, with the Navy, Guard and Astartes as a mobile reserve to swoop in where an enemy is particularly concentrated or determined. Even in those extremes? It’s comparatively rare for a planet to fall before the reinforcements can arrive. Which says something about the current condition of most system defence forces.

There’s even the possibility of a SDF being upgraded to have stuff like Lunar Class, just with the warp drive left out of the build.

They don't need the whole planet - just that one Hive Spire.

Politically they might not be able to claim the world; but internal politics and dogma would demand that they act.

And when you've a huge mechanicus warship in orbit chances are you can't argue no matter how rich you are. At best you might just wrangle yourself Vassal status ruling your Hive City whilst the Mechanicus crawl all over it. Likely claiming larger and larger swathes of it formally over time as they justify "its connected to the STC"


There's also speed to consider, sometimes you can get away with things if you can act fast enough. Discovering the STC would assume the info has got out about it so the Mechanicus would want to secure it fast before other factions might try for it.

There are a few factors.

Firstly, the Necromundan nobility are almost certainly willing to throw Van Saar under a bus to save their own status. They could very easily depose Van Saar and offer the STC to the Ad Mech in exchange for favour/clemency (depending on the mood).

Secondly, the Ad Mech don't need to do a smash and grab to castigate Van Saar if they found out- that could be done through diplomatic pathways.

Thirdly, I am confident the Ad Mech could and would consider annexing a world as important as Necromunda. It would cost them politically, and they'd have to make a lot of concessions to existing stakeholders like promising the Administratum that current tithes would be honoured going forward. However, wehave seen the Administratum and the Ecclesiarchy commandeer worlds. I see no reason the Mechanicus cannot do the same in the right circumstances.

Finally, a single STC probably wouldn't revolutionise the Imperium all that much. The Imperium already has widely divergent capabilities of tech creation, and instead of disseminating the better tech, it jealously hordes it. Ryza has unparalleled plasma tech. Voss Prime struggles so much with plasma containment fields they modified the pattern of light cruiser they produce to compensate for more dangerous plasma engines. Ryza has no interest in helping out Voss Prime. Triplex Phall produces a superior lasgun with variable shot intensity, but many worlds build a basic local variant lasgun with wooden furniture and fixed settings.

If XYZ forge world got the Van Saar STC, they would churn out huge quantities of irradiating gear... but they probably wouldn't share the underlying designs. The exception is if the Van Saar STC contains plans to replicate itself. That might drive something of a revolution within the Mechanicus.

Question for me on the hoarding of information is whether that’s mostly related to its rarity.

Consider it this way. Let’s say I’m a music fan, and somehow I’ve discovered a Lost Beatles Recording, which was fully mastered but somehow never released and largely forgotten or rendered mythical.

I could, and probably would, host listening parties. Each and every attendee would be searched for recording devices to ensure i continue having the Only Copy In Existence. And so if you want to hear it, you’ll have to cross my palm with silver.

Then, years later, having made a fortune, I put it out on Spotify.

Now, my copy absolutely retains value, because the original master is going to do that. But others can now listen to it at their leisure.

The same can be said of a Forgeworld such as Ryza. They don’t want to disseminate or share whatever fragment or complete template they have, because it gives them leverage.

But a complete STC database? Held by Mars? That’s the sort of thing it’s incumbent to start sharing with as many Forgeworlds as possible. Indeed, freely created copies of Files would revolutionise The Imperium, because no one Forgeworld would be especially crucial.

And that might be the price the High Lords exact for allowing the wholesale annexation of Necromunda into the Mechanicus.

But then Mars would lose power, and Mars has clearly shown it cannot countenance losing power.

I suspect Mars would horde the STC, and only disseminate aspects when it benefited them.

Oh Mars would most definitely pull rank as the Most Equal among the Equals and take ownership of the STC.

And given said importance of such a device to the wider Imperium, it wouldn’t stay on Necromunda for terribly long. I mean, why go to the trouble and expense of fortifying that system when you can cart it back to Holy Mars, and probably the best defended system in the entire Imperium as it stands?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But…probably not straight away. There’d be initial studies to do to ensure it’s sanctified and not about to start pooping out Men of Iron for lols. And The Imperial House has a decent argument for radical compensation for its loss.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Question for me on the hoarding of information is whether that’s mostly related to its rarity.

Consider it this way. Let’s say I’m a music fan, and somehow I’ve discovered a Lost Beatles Recording, which was fully mastered but somehow never released and largely forgotten or rendered mythical.

I could, and probably would, host listening parties. Each and every attendee would be searched for recording devices to ensure i continue having the Only Copy In Existence. And so if you want to hear it, you’ll have to cross my palm with silver.

Then, years later, having made a fortune, I put it out on Spotify.

The thing is you might do that years later because you're old, have hit a ceiling of wealth and have a love of the music beyond finances.

The Mechanicus are not like that. First up most of the upper ranks are stupidly old already and have no desire or intention of dying. So they won't hit their "golden old age years" as such (though they could get some gold trim on their cogs).

They also don't have a ceiling for wealth, more is good!

Finally they love machinery in a religious possessive manner. They WANT to hold onto it.



It's one of the many things that holds the Imperium in its insane limbo state. The Forges of Mars and the Mechanicus could revolutionise the Imperium if they shared many of their designs; just like if the Imperium started giving power armour like Marines to the Imperial Guard and so forth.

The Imperium has a VAST amount of potential within itself and its all locked up with thousands of years of politics, madness, religion, dogma, ignorance and more.

For STC files and fragments, I suspect it’s a case of they can’t, rather than won’t, make copies. And that could be the result of anyone or several different factors.

For instance, we know a file on a USB can be copied to a Hard Drive, and then emailed, Dropbox’d, put on CD, copied to another USB.

But. If the device you have for reading that USB is read only, or you have no other USB to copy it on to? That’s the only copy you know of in existence.

That adds to the hoarding. Where a full STC database which can churn out copy after copy, without degradation, of a given file? That’s a completely different scenario.

But yes, Idiocy is King in the Imperium. The peak example of Monkies In A Cage.

If the admech steam rolled necromunda it would cause too much trouble with the administratum and possibly the high lords of Terra. I expect they would show up with a big enough force to annex the planet and leave the current bureaucracy in place to keep the tithes going out to the imperium.

They’d then find the STC and put a bullet in the brain of anyone who had so much as looked at it.

Then they’d have to infrastructure to manufacture and distribute the tech they are now able to develop

They wouldn't have to steamroll the entire planet, just take over one Hive Spire. Plus its just a hive world, the Imperium has many Hive worlds and so long as it sends its tithe and provides the resources to the Imperium, the Imperium is happy.

It doesn't really matter if the Nobility are in charge or not, so long as it pays. The High Lords of Terra have much bigger issues to worry about along with their own internal politics

STC schematics seem to be reproducible- forge worlds are manadated to submit a copy of all their designs to the central archives on Mars. The same archives that Arkhan Land found his famous designs in.

They can probably pull the "STC? What's that?" exactly once. And only if it is immediately followed by surrender of the STC.

If the Mechanicus ever found out they knew it was an STC and chose to withhold it, then that is a clear violation of the treaty and they would act accordingly.

With Hive Primus being the capital, and most productive hive, on a Hive World whose production is vital to the Imperium. With all its planetary defences and the Imperial Navy, the Mechanicus would not be able to rock up with a fleet of ships and make demands.

I expect that there would be a lot of political wrangling far above the Planetary Governor.

The Imperial Guard/Navy would likely be duty bound to aid the Mechanicus in retrieving the STC.

If they know about it. If the Mechanicus just rock up with a large fleet things might get tense.

The Mechanicus could easily read in the commander of the Imperial Navy as far as they need too. A commander is unlikely to push for political gain of securing an STC on their own, but would be duty bound to help the Mechanicus secure such a prized artifact.

A single ship and high ranking Magos could likely accomplish that.

In the end keeping the Mechanicus from a known STC is basically going to be near impossible on a world like Necromunda. It's a "safe" world within the Imperium. You don't have to conquer it or take it from the enemy. Whilst here might be political aspects, STCs are way up there in importance.


Again its like finding a Space Marine relic weapon or power armour. It just trumps whatever power the local nobility has. They might be bigshots on Necromunda, but in the greater Imperium they are disposable. So long as bodies and resources flow into the Imperium they really don't care who manages a world.

For such a vital prize, it’d surely be an Ark Mechanicus and attendant fleet? No need to press gang the Navy! Possibly even the Fabricator General himself.

As manic as the Mechanicus is, diplomacy is also not beyond them.
Rocking up to a vital Imperial world that also happens to be a fief of the Imperial Fists leading with threats gets them nowhere.

We've mostly wound up talking about threatening/military actions because of the potential for the powers of the Hive to say "no" to the Mechanicus likely laying claim to the whole Hive (or enough of it that counts as the whole hive) because the STC is built into it.


The main point is that the Mechanicus wouldn't leave an STC just sitting there if they knew about it; and they would expend what resources they have to secure it very quickly. Be that diplomatic all the way to military. The latter only happening if power bodies within the Necromunda world/sector tried to resist them. Chances are the Imperial Fists would just tell them to let the Mechanicus have the STC/Hive city. There are other hive cities on the planet and Mechicus could still run the city and it would still function for the purposes of production, export and recruitment.

 Gert wrote:
As manic as the Mechanicus is, diplomacy is also not beyond them.
Rocking up to a vital Imperial world that also happens to be a fief of the Imperial Fists leading with threats gets them nowhere.

If the Mechanicus played their cards right (by promising supply of new STC goodies for example), they may be able to convince a delegation of the Fists to join the fleet!

Any such event is undoubtedly going to involve a bunch of horse trading between major factions before anyone acts. I would doubt the Mechanicus would send warships without also having an agreement in place with at least the Adeptus Terra prior to setting sail. This would probably go to the top of the High Lords and factions would want a piece of the pie for their support.

Having said that, I fully expect a warfleet to rock up for collection/annexation. Just because the High Lords may be on side doesn't mean the planetary nobility won't need persuading...

Edit: Very weird, posted to the wrong thread somehow! Ignore.

Is it covered in any of the many Newcromunda books how the Mechanicus aren't already aware of the Van Saar STC, after n thousand years?

Essentially, the Van Saar don’t go shipping their Fancy Tech to the Guard.

The rest is plausible deniability, and occasional relocation of the STC itself. I’d need to re-read their House Of book, but if memory serves the relocation may no longer be possible.

Also lets not forget whilst we focus a lot on this world storywise; its a literal drop in the ocean of the setting. It's one hive spire on a hive world with multiple other spires. The Gangs are also a big thing in the underhive, but the higher up you go the less important they are until you hit the top where they are considered sport for hunting.

In all likelihood, the Mechanicus would explain to the Governor that there is an STC on his world and that any assistance he can provide would be greatly appreciated.

A few weeks later the Mechanicus leaves with the STC and the governor has an impressive new collection of toys to oppress his subjects with and the undying gratitude of the Cult Mechanicus.

The value of STCs is such that really nothing Van Saar could offer would be able to keep anybody else from turning them in to the Mechanicus. The Mechanicus simply has deeper pockets and who wouldn't want a personal regiment of Skitarii, a bunch of fancy weapons/tools/etc..., and the best tech support on permanent retainer?

Only Van Saar has any incentive to keep the STC in their possession. Everybody else involved would have far more incentive to give it to the Mechanicus for cookies.

Never mind Skirtarii, when it’s “erm,,,might’ve found a complete STC” is “here. Have a Titan Legion or two”.

Now now now. Lets not get crazy here.