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 Irbis wrote:

GW: Wait, why people don't want to buy DW and Inquisition? Must be because they are hated factions, and totally not because Cruddace and Kelly ruined them with their incompetence, eh? Better squat them!

Now the book on its own is super bad, and for DW players it is like being spit on. But I can't think of an Imperial army that doesn't get better with assasins, and if you want to run them post this codex, you need the rules to be able to do it. So every person who wants to run them has to buy the book or the cards. And cards will be in lower supply, then then the books.

I’m looking forward to getting the book, but more so seeing the points.
I’m reorganizing my Deathwatch but since I don’t play tournaments, I will absolutely be adding Kill Team Cassius, Terminators, vanvets and bikes into my Ordo Xenos detachment.
Will probably import a few characters too (Libby, Captain etc)
Will keep all my Primaris as just Gladius marine force.

The thing I'm waiting for most is the errata; if GW has followed the internet buzz, they could fix the lack of Astartes Keywords for DW and the lack of <Ordo> keywords on generic Inquisitors with just a few lines of errata.

It still wouldn't make the book perfect, but it would make it a heck of a lot better with virtually no effort on GW's part.

 PenitentJake wrote:
The thing I'm waiting for most is the errata; if GW has followed the internet buzz, they could fix the lack of Astartes Keywords for DW and the lack of <Ordo> keywords on generic Inquisitors with just a few lines of errata.

It still wouldn't make the book perfect, but it would make it a heck of a lot better with virtually no effort on GW's part.

If they can't fix the watch master weapon damage profile, I doubt they will do similar stuff now. The transport stuff is the only fix I expect to see, plus I find it funny that this books GK terminators aren't GK. It is funny.

I actually don't expect them to give the Blackstar the Transport Keyword- I don't think they want people bringing six to a game, and I don't think they want two showing up in an allied army.

With the rules as-is, you can shoehorn a character and a Kill Team in a Blackstar and drop them into any Imperial army, but if you gave the Blackstar Transport, I think that would mean you could bring a Watchmaster and his Team in one Blackstar, and a second Kill Team in a second Blackstar. The Goonhammer Crew and GW bothseem to think that would be too much augmentation to say, a Guard army. Granted, it would be great in an army of Space Marines, so that you can mimic a Deathwatch army from days gone by, but unless the fix the Astartes Keyword problem I mentioned above, that's just extra baggage that can't use an augmentative Army rule, a detachment rule, enhancements or detachment strats.

As for the GK in this book not being Marines, or the Sisters not being Sisters, it's weird and cumbersome, but it's far less of an issue with those armies because the is a selction of Sororitas Detachments and there will be a selection of GK Detachments that any Agent units you want to include can be assigned to using assigned Agents, and unless you WANTED BSS or GK Termies in those armies to be Agents for narrative reasons, you'd just use the Host Army detacards for them instead of assigning them from the Agents dex, solving any keyword issues without the need for errata. So I get you- it is weird for them not to have those Keywords, but the in-game effect of that weirdness is minimal.

With DW, however, it's a huge deal, since integrating them into a Space Marine army as Agents is the only way to get many of the units DW could once include onto the table.

I think for important concern for most people is going to be the points particularly as GW are double valuing them. Gw could easily make everything very overcosted as an addition to another army

Units almost HAVE to end up overcosted in some armies.

The value of a cheap unit of light infantry in a Guard army is nowhere near the same as in a Knight army.

But objectively there is a value where it's worth considering and one where it's not

As a sister player

I have arcos 150
Repentia 180
Sacresants+hospitalier 200
Arcos+ priest 200

I've seen the DW rules at 150 they are an easy take over arcos but once you get to the 180-210 point range they feel much more a choice especially given they don't benefit from detatchment

However I could see GW adding a penalty and by 250 I would never take them.



I think the cheap unit argument is bad one because absolutely knights type armies want a cheap objective holder and so get more value from it but it's not really about the unit as whole they just want the cheapest way to hold a home objective/do a mission they will pay 20 pts over what its worth it thats cheapest. when you look dw gk sisters units they either are pointed to be good enough to compete for a spot in other armies or they are not taken

Points released.
Overall not bad, but that Vindicare….. ouch.

Munitorum Field Manual wrote:Sisters of Battle Squad:
1 model ... 115 points

::sigh::

Basically what I expected. Seeing the separate points appear to only be designed to make everything unplayable as allies is pretty disappointing though.

I can ALMOST justify running Kill Teams in my marines list, but the loss of the Astartes keyword is probably crippling.

Well, if you want a pure Deathwatch army now it will max-out at 2245 points. And that's assuming you want 6 Rhinos, 3 Blackstars, 3 Watch Masters, Artemis, and 6 maxed Kill Teams.

Plus side, at least they don't have higher points costs if you put them in a traditional marine army, but then you're VERY limited on the Deathwatch units you can take in your "Deathwatch" force.

Dang it.

Losing advance and charge in Gladius and all Strat support really hurts. I want to include them but I'm aware I'm forcing it.

I’ll still be including terminators and vanvets in my Xenos force, plus adding SM captains (not everyone is a watch master) to add a little variety.

DW do look competent as an addition to another army though

Kill Team finally got points that are playable! Of course.... that's only for Legends :(

New inquisitor sculpt leaked, allegedly WH+ exclusive

 BertBert wrote:
New inquisitor sculpt leaked, allegedly WH+ exclusive

So, if they are WH+, yay, cuz they're plastic, but boo cuz they're limited.

If they aren't WH+, yay cuz they'll be "easier" to get a hold of (or at least somewhat more accessible), but boo cuz they're likely FW resin.

Either way, I'm probably going to get them.

It's for WH+.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Munitorum Field Manual wrote:Sisters of Battle Squad:
1 model ... 115 points

::sigh::

They are only 115pts if you take them as allies. In a dedicated agents army they are 100. That's still not amazing since they don't get miracle dice, but it's not as bad as it sounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LunarSol wrote:
Kill Team finally got points that are playable! Of course.... that's only for Legends :(

I mean, unless you're going to big competitive tournaments, that's still a plus.

 Tawnis wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Munitorum Field Manual wrote:Sisters of Battle Squad:
1 model ... 115 points

::sigh::

They are only 115pts if you take them as allies. In a dedicated agents army they are 100. That's still not amazing since they don't get miracle dice, but it's not as bad as it sounds.

You might have missed the issue with 1 model being 100pts...

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Tawnis wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Munitorum Field Manual wrote:Sisters of Battle Squad:
1 model ... 115 points

::sigh::

They are only 115pts if you take them as allies. In a dedicated agents army they are 100. That's still not amazing since they don't get miracle dice, but it's not as bad as it sounds.

You might have missed the issue with 1 model being 100pts...

It's per 10 models, I figured that was a typo. There's no 1 sisters model in the dex that's 100 points.

Talking about the actual units though, the Immolators are down to 100pts too for agents. I could see the army running a pair with a split sisters squad going around and stickying objectives.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Tawnis wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Munitorum Field Manual wrote:Sisters of Battle Squad:
1 model ... 115 points

::sigh::

They are only 115pts if you take them as allies. In a dedicated agents army they are 100. That's still not amazing since they don't get miracle dice, but it's not as bad as it sounds.

You might have missed the issue with 1 model being 100pts...

Correct - I was pointing out the lack of proofreading.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Tawnis wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Munitorum Field Manual wrote:Sisters of Battle Squad:
1 model ... 115 points

::sigh::

They are only 115pts if you take them as allies. In a dedicated agents army they are 100. That's still not amazing since they don't get miracle dice, but it's not as bad as it sounds.

You might have missed the issue with 1 model being 100pts...

Correct - I was pointing out the lack of proofreading.

Ohhh... I see. Totally went over my head.

 Tawnis wrote:
Ohhh... I see. Totally went over my head.

It's okay, it happens to me all the time. It sucks being short.

...sorry, I'll see myself out.

Vindicare: 110 pts or 150 pts ( ) as an Ally.

Callidus: 100 pts or 100 pts as an Ally.

GW rules are as consistent as always I see...

 MinscS2 wrote:
Vindicare: 110 pts or 150 pts ( ) as an Ally.

Callidus: 100 pts or 100 pts as an Ally.

GW rules are as consistent as always I see...

You can't apply the same standard to every unit, the inconsistency in it is actually a good sign.

The Callidus has been proven at 100pts to be strong, but not broken, it barely changed, so staying as is makes sense. The Vindicare got a big buff and could potentially be a very strong unit, giving it a higher initial points cost so it doesn't just get slotted into every Imperial list is the right call as far as I see. Better to adjust down as needed then bust the meta.

 Tawnis wrote:
The Vindicare got a big buff and could potentially be a very strong unit, giving it a higher initial points cost so it doesn't just get slotted into every Imperial list is the right call as far as I see. Better to adjust down as needed then bust the meta.

Technically, the Vindicare went from 80 to (110)150 while the Callidus went from 100 to (100)100, so it already paid +30 pts minimum for the new buffs.
Almost doubling the price of it for "allies" however... yeah...that might've been a tad too much.

I've seen alot of people freak out about it already ("OMG it ignores Lone Operative!") - if only hiding lone models was hard in 10th.

The vindicare could litterally have an ability thats "in your shooting phase, kill a visible foot hero" and it would still be bad. His role just is too easily counterable because precision requires visibility

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
The vindicare could litterally have an ability thats "in your shooting phase, kill a visible foot hero" and it would still be bad. His role just is too easily counterable because precision requires visibility

Then he's exerting influence by dictating where your opponent's heroes can or cannot go.