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Hey so looking at the new codex, why would/should I take inquisitorial acolytes with an inquisitor? Pretty much any of the other units would be better. Especially the space cops or battle sister squad. Am I missing something? What do you guys think?

usmcmidn wrote:
Hey so looking at the new codex, why would/should I take inquisitorial acolytes with an inquisitor? Pretty much any of the other units would be better. Especially the space cops or battle sister squad. Am I missing something? What do you guys think?

Does it have to do with detachments and keywords? I don't have the dex yet, but sisters may only be Hereticus and GK may only be Malleus, and DW may only be Xenos. Breachers and voidsmen may only be battle line in Fleet detachments.

Then of course, there's narrative reasons, which for me is always the first thing I think about. From an RP perspective, the Hench are the most loyal, as there is no other command structure they answer to besides their inquisitor.

An Agent squad being led by an Inquisitor gets -1 to be wounded. Seems worthwhile to me.

 PenitentJake wrote:

usmcmidn wrote:
Hey so looking at the new codex, why would/should I take inquisitorial acolytes with an inquisitor? Pretty much any of the other units would be better. Especially the space cops or battle sister squad. Am I missing something? What do you guys think?

Does it have to do with detachments and keywords? I don't have the dex yet, but sisters may only be Hereticus and GK may only be Malleus, and DW may only be Xenos. Breachers and voidsmen may only be battle line in Fleet detachments.

i think one or maybe all three of the Inquisition detachments care about them

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
An Agent squad being led by an Inquisitor gets -1 to be wounded. Seems worthwhile to me.

Yeah, I saw that it just seems like a Sister Squad, or any of the Space Cops would be more useful. The taking away 2 wounds IMO is the real killer for them. They just seem lack luster.

I think the Inquisitor better leading a unit you plan on using stratagems for, especially with the Fleetmaster Enhancement, so breachers. They will also be grenading at least once.

The unit doesn’t bring much to the force unfortunately, again hobbled by the NMNR curse. The options in the box kind of suck so the unit follows suit.
I’ll take one for fluff reasons but the inquisitor that I will have leading it will be a lesser one on the totem pole, not the head honcho.

I haven't yet got the Codex so hoping to get some answers before I commit; I'm looking at running an Inquisitor and his entourage in our next Crusade, mainly for thematic reasons as we're keeping a story going, but I'm also hoping on a squad of Inquisitorial Stormtroopers. Is there anything in the new book that could ideally represent them? Thinking of just counting them as Kasrkin as the only thing I saw in the old datacards was an Arbites unit which is a massive, massive downgrade.

 Valkyrie wrote:
I haven't yet got the Codex so hoping to get some answers before I commit; I'm looking at running an Inquisitor and his entourage in our next Crusade, mainly for thematic reasons as we're keeping a story going, but I'm also hoping on a squad of Inquisitorial Stormtroopers. Is there anything in the new book that could ideally represent them? Thinking of just counting them as Kasrkin as the only thing I saw in the old datacards was an Arbites unit which is a massive, massive downgrade.

There's no Inquisition Stormtroopers in this book.
And nothing to really replicate them.
So if you want Karskin/Stormtroopers you'll have to play Guard & Agents in the Inquitor.

ccs wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
I haven't yet got the Codex so hoping to get some answers before I commit; I'm looking at running an Inquisitor and his entourage in our next Crusade, mainly for thematic reasons as we're keeping a story going, but I'm also hoping on a squad of Inquisitorial Stormtroopers. Is there anything in the new book that could ideally represent them? Thinking of just counting them as Kasrkin as the only thing I saw in the old datacards was an Arbites unit which is a massive, massive downgrade.

There's no Inquisition Stormtroopers in this book.
And nothing to really replicate them.
So if you want Karskin/Stormtroopers you'll have to play Guard & Agents in the Inquitor.

Also:

Since you mentioned that this is a Crusade, including the Inquisitor allows you to get Crusade perks from both books in a combined force. In some cases, it's possible to tackle Inquisition agendas even if your inquisitor is back at home base. But yeah, no storm troopers in the book, but allying in as assigned agents is still an option.

Another option would be to ask your opponents permission to include them. The book is half baked, and to get the most out of it, adjustments need to be made.

 bullyboy wrote:
The unit doesn’t bring much to the force unfortunately, again hobbled by the NMNR curse. The options in the box kind of suck so the unit follows suit.
I’ll take one for fluff reasons but the inquisitor that I will have leading it will be a lesser one on the totem pole, not the head honcho.

This isn't a NMNR curse. The Jokero or Daemonhost aren't saving these guys. They're just.... absolute garbage for some reason.

 LunarSol wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
The unit doesn’t bring much to the force unfortunately, again hobbled by the NMNR curse. The options in the box kind of suck so the unit follows suit.
I’ll take one for fluff reasons but the inquisitor that I will have leading it will be a lesser one on the totem pole, not the head honcho.

This isn't a NMNR curse. The Jokero or Daemonhost aren't saving these guys. They're just.... absolute garbage for some reason.

Your looking at it backwards. The unit is saving the attached Jokero/Deamonhost.
Think of them as additional wounds you can purchase for these two.
Then stick them all in a rhino/chimera so they can drive about shooting from the firing deck.

ccs wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
The unit doesn’t bring much to the force unfortunately, again hobbled by the NMNR curse. The options in the box kind of suck so the unit follows suit.
I’ll take one for fluff reasons but the inquisitor that I will have leading it will be a lesser one on the totem pole, not the head honcho.

This isn't a NMNR curse. The Jokero or Daemonhost aren't saving these guys. They're just.... absolute garbage for some reason.

Your looking at it backwards. The unit is saving the attached Jokero/Deamonhost.
Think of them as additional wounds you can purchase for these two.
Then stick them all in a rhino/chimera so they can drive about shooting from the firing deck.

That is what I'm saying. Having the Jokero or Daemonhost isn't adding enough to make the unit worth taking.

Jokero were actually quite good. And there's no reason Deamonhosts couldn't have been made so, in which case the unit would be worth taking. But it's hard to see how you could justify the current set of models having the power they need to.

 LunarSol wrote:

ccs wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
The unit doesn’t bring much to the force unfortunately, again hobbled by the NMNR curse. The options in the box kind of suck so the unit follows suit.
I’ll take one for fluff reasons but the inquisitor that I will have leading it will be a lesser one on the totem pole, not the head honcho.

This isn't a NMNR curse. The Jokero or Daemonhost aren't saving these guys. They're just.... absolute garbage for some reason.

Your looking at it backwards. The unit is saving the attached Jokero/Deamonhost.
Think of them as additional wounds you can purchase for these two.
Then stick them all in a rhino/chimera so they can drive about shooting from the firing deck.

That is what I'm saying. Having the Jokero or Daemonhost isn't adding enough to make the unit worth taking.

Well if you don't see the value in essentially adding OC6, +6 wounds, a HB/Plasma Cannon/MM, all their ranged attacks gaining Lethal Hits, + some melee capability to your Jokero for a mere 50pts....
And you can double that if you care to spend another 50pts.

 The Phazer wrote:
Jokero were actually quite good. And there's no reason Deamonhosts couldn't have been made so, in which case the unit would be worth taking. But it's hard to see how you could justify the current set of models having the power they need to.

There's no reason the unit itself couldn't have been good, but.... well, here we are. I mean, just leaving the Mystic alone would have been a huge improvement, but they had to yank that out so they could sell the Navigator sculpt to people that didn't buy the boardgame.

Old profile vs. new is weird because some was lost and some was gained.

Yes, all but the Jokaero and Daemonhost lost a wound, but all also got BS and WS +1.

We picked up 0-2 Tomeskulls, with each either forcing a battle shock test or autopassing one.

Mystics lost their DS denial and Unholy gaze, both of which are a big deal; while it doesn't entirely make up for that loss, they did gain +1 S on melee and Anti-infantry 4.

I think it's fair to say that the old unit might be better, but I don't think it's necessarily fair to say that the new unit is bad.

It's like 50 points for a cheap, accurate multimedia.

I looked at it to field a comp list in a couple of months and I couldn't see a reason to take them

U02dah4 wrote:
I looked at it to field a comp list in a couple of months and I couldn't see a reason to take them

Well that's because you're tourney bound & can't play with all the rules - so no Jokero & Hosts for you.

I'm not a competitive guy, so I don't compare units point for point. But 50 points gets an eviscerator, a plasma pistol, a plasma canon or multimetla, a force weapon with anti-infanty 4.

The unit has 6 wounds, with your first two coming off normal dudes with pistols and close-combat weapons so that none of your special stuff dies. They're also native -1 to be wounded. They also get a Tome Skull which either forces a battle shock test on an enemy or auto passes a battle shock test.

Perhaps the most important point, and one you may be overlooking because it doesn't fit the army you want to build: they don't take up a retinue spot if attached to an Inquisitor, allowing you to bring more Agents into an allied force than you normally would.

Compare that to Voidsmen; same unit price, same number of models. They all have worse WS/BS; one of them (the Canid) can't shoot at all. One has a Rotor cannon, one has a shotgun. They do lethal if the target the closest enemy, and they don't take up a retinue spot if you attach an RT. So for the same cost, you get two fewer specialists and you avoid taking a model that, while technically a specialist, is worse than a base troop (the Canid). You also DON'T get the Tome skull, and only an RT can be attached (as opposed to an Inquisitor, a Jokaero, and a Daemon host).

Also? The unit can't double up the way IA can, maximizing the specialists that you can include without burning a Retinue spot. So maybe if you want to argue that you can't find a reason to take voidsmen, that might be more convincing? They certainly are objectively worse.

Me? I like BIG UNITS. MSU is for suckas!

So for 100 points, I'm getting two eviscerators, two mystic staves, a plasma cannon, a multimelta, and two plasma pistols, as well as two tome skulls, with an extra four normal dudes to provide ablative wounds to the specialists. All at ws/bs = MEQ, and -1 to be wounded. And they can join an allied army without counting as a Retinue, allowing you to bring 3 other retinue units to 2k game.

Once I attach the inquisitor, they also have a 60% chance to recover the CP for any strat they use.

For 30 pts, I add a Jokaero and EVERYONE'S hits become lethal. And because he's added, he doesn't use on of my character slots in an Assigned Agents scenario. He also adds his own dual profile shooting attack, which is comparable to Plasma, and in some ways better (not Hazardous on focused fire).

For 40 points, I can add a daemonhost (or even 2 for 80 if I wanted). They give the whole unit a 5+ invul, and their weapons are better than basic weapons, though perhaps not as good as they could have been.

Again, I'm not arguing that the unit wasn't better before- 2 wounds was a big deal, and I'm not sure +1 BS/WS makes up for it. What I'm arguing is that the unit isn't objectively bad





The Rhino/ firing deck

Are the models you're talking about T3 with 1 wound?

Because a 4++ with -1 to hit and wound makes them slightly more tanky than harlequins, which evaporate as soon as anyone looks at them.

I'm not arguing its the worst unit in the book. There are many, many options vying for the crown. I'm just baffled they took something that was almost good and made it much worse somehow.

They don't have a built in -1 to wound they only get that with an inquisitor but then they are atleast 50% more expensive

Fair points all.

And yeah, in terms of the relative toughness thing, because I play in a small group, and only small narrative games, I'm not thinking necessarily about how they are on a field full of monsters, vehicles or artillery.

In a 500 point game, once you pay for your leader and his retinue, with another unit for objectives and possibly someone to lead it, there isn't always a lot left over.

It's totally different when that same unit is up against 2k of the toughest stuff an opponent could throw at them. They'd die if you looked at them sideways. I'm happy about having high WS/BS, but like I said, not sure it was worth losing a wound.

Side note for Crusaders: One thing that's great about IA in Crusade is that they have their own battle honour chart, and 2/3 abilities augment the Inquisitors ability to deal with "Threats" and control the sub sector- one ability grants extra Investigation points and another grants Influence points. Obviously, if you aren't Crusading it doesn't matter, and you probably didn't even notice.

You want these guys on your team if you roll 3 Extremis level threats, or if the plot twists derail you.

 LunarSol wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
The unit doesn’t bring much to the force unfortunately, again hobbled by the NMNR curse. The options in the box kind of suck so the unit follows suit.
I’ll take one for fluff reasons but the inquisitor that I will have leading it will be a lesser one on the totem pole, not the head honcho.

This isn't a NMNR curse. The Jokero or Daemonhost aren't saving these guys. They're just.... absolute garbage for some reason.

Sure it is, what do you get to add? A plasma pistol, staff and an eviscerator. I’m not talking about the jokaero or daemonhost, I’m talking weapon options for the squad. Or special rule options for members. Each guy should be like a mini character (weak one however). There should be options for a crusader, flamer-redemptionists, alien weapons, etc.
First you should have a list of what’s available to generic agents, then a weapons list for each Ordo, and rules for being either Puritan or Radical. It really could have been a fun unit, but customization is no longer a thing in 40K, so they basically suck.