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Who said anything about "big"? I'm not sure what your point is. We're talking about people who don't consume every bit of MCU, which is actually a lot, and how they won't be familiar with many of the characters that have been introduced in other products.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
The appeal of this movie is a bunch of flawed characters dressed up to look like characters from more successful movies.
Might be too self-referential / meta for me to appreciate as anything other than the deeply ironic lack of self-awareness on the part of the producers. Might hate watch it.
Ahtman wrote: Who said anything about "big"? I'm not sure what your point is. We're talking about people who don't consume every bit of MCU, which is actually a lot, and how they won't be familiar with many of the characters that have been introduced in other products.
I meant its probably the biggest thing he's been in. Even then, I had kind of forgotten myself.
Ahtman wrote: Who said anything about "big"? I'm not sure what your point is. We're talking about people who don't consume every bit of MCU, which is actually a lot, and how they won't be familiar with many of the characters that have been introduced in other products.
I don't think there's anything that can be done about that if you want a team-up movie. It's not that many more sources than the first Avengers movie. Black Widow and Falcon and Winter Soldier cover most of the characters. Bucky has a bit of a longer history, so Falcon and Winter Soldier benefits from additional viewing as well. Throw in the second Ant-Man and you have a solid understanding of the major characters.
Civil War threw a lot more into the mix, even if you give it the benefit of not counting the big names everyone knew by the time.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
Ahtman wrote: Who said anything about "big"? I'm not sure what your point is. We're talking about people who don't consume every bit of MCU, which is actually a lot, and how they won't be familiar with many of the characters that have been introduced in other products.
I don't think there's anything that can be done about that if you want a team-up movie. It's not that many more sources than the first Avengers movie. Black Widow and Falcon and Winter Soldier cover most of the characters. Bucky has a bit of a longer history, so Falcon and Winter Soldier benefits from additional viewing as well. Throw in the second Ant-Man and you have a solid understanding of the major characters.
Civil War threw a lot more into the mix, even if you give it the benefit of not counting the big names everyone knew by the time.
I am not saying that they shouldn't have made the movie or that it will be terrible because it is geared a bit more toward fans, just that some viewers are going to go in less knowledgeable than others.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Luckily they have an ace writing team that'll no doubt make the characters approachable to both new and knowledgeable audiences.
Silliness aside, I don't disagree with you about the benefit of watching other stuff to get a better experience out of this one. I just don't think you can get around that. A cinematic universe or series of movies or multi-season show is always going to rely on an established foundation and won't rehash too much, not the least because at some point it'll grow so large that rehashes are no longer practical.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
Disney + had these things they were releaseing called Legends. They were like... 5-8 minute little things that caught you up on who a character was just before the new thing came out.
Unfortunately they appear to have stopped doing that. (No new episodes of Legends for Agatha All Along). But I imagine they were/are very useful for people who don't remember all the details of all the movies/shows like I do.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Lance845 wrote: The one big reveal character so far is Bob. The Sentry.
Same actor that played callsign “Bob” in Top Gun: Maverick, funnily enough.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
2024/11/10 01:16:42
Subject: Re:Thunderbolts* - D23 Brazil Special Look
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/11/10 01:50:22
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
I'd feel better if I had a sense of what the plot is, but there's a lot of nice stuntwork in the trailers and a lot of these guys have been super fun in prior films. I'll almost certainly see it, but I have no expectation of quality currently.
LunarSol wrote: I'd feel better if I had a sense of what the plot is, ...
Based on the trailer, the plot is essentially - Valentina wants to assemble her own Avengers under more direct government (or at least, her)control, brings in a group of whacky individuals conveniently introduced in other MCU titles, sends them on a mission and hijinks ensue.
Which is pretty standard stuff for this sort of movie, but works if the cast is right... and the cast for this looks like a hell of a lot of fun. So I'm here for it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/11/11 23:51:06
LunarSol wrote: I'd feel better if I had a sense of what the plot is, ...
Based on the trailer, the plot is essentially - Valentina wants to assemble her own Avengers under more direct government (or at least, her)control, brings in a group of whacky individuals conveniently introduced in other MCU titles, sends them on a mission and hijinks ensue.
Which is pretty standard stuff for this sort of movie, but works if the cast is right... and the cast for this looks like a hell of a lot of fun. So I'm here for it.
Thats not the impression I get. The impression I get is that she has a bunch of agents she has been making use of separately but they are becoming a problem and she has managed to get a hold of an asset that has made them obsolete. Send the problem children on a mission to take each other out and have the new asset clean up the rest.
They realize they are being played, team up to get her back for trying to kill them all.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Thats not the impression I get. The impression I get is that she has a bunch of agents she has been making use of separately but they are becoming a problem and she has managed to get a hold of an asset that has made them obsolete. Send the problem children on a mission to take each other out and have the new asset clean up the rest.
They realize they are being played, team up to get her back for trying to kill them all.
In that case I hope they are able to kill at least half off.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
That reluctance is kind of understandable though. One of the various issues the MCU had in recent times is that the big names people followed for a decade have had their run. And with it the movies (and shows) lose draw. Between substantial technical issues and the meandering multiverse metaplot (is there even a metaplot?) that has yet to get people invested, I don't think that's something they can really afford right.
To me it looks like they might finally have a winner on their hand with this team up. Would be pretty ironic if they decided to start bumping off characters with this movie.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
The Multiverse approach probably creates loads of sub-meta-plots. The thing its its scattershot through so many different series that you likely can't spot it unless you keep up with everything until they do the "everyone teams up to take it on" production where it all pulls together.
Geifer wrote: That reluctance is kind of understandable though. One of the various issues the MCU had in recent times is that the big names people followed for a decade have had their run. And with it the movies (and shows) lose draw. Between substantial technical issues and the meandering multiverse metaplot (is there even a metaplot?) that has yet to get people invested, I don't think that's something they can really afford right.
To me it looks like they might finally have a winner on their hand with this team up. Would be pretty ironic if they decided to start bumping off characters with this movie.
In the 2010s Marvel Comics did a version of "Crisis on Infinite Earths" called "Secret Wars" no relation to the 80s toy tie in. In it the Marvel multiverse was destroyed until the 616 Earth and Ultimate Earth were the last two standing.
It had a neat gimmick, universes would collide and destroy each other, but you could save yours by destroying the other universe. Creating agonizing choices for the Avengers.
Point being, Marvel announced there's a Secret Wars film coming, so it seems the meta plot is set up the multiverse then KA-BOOM! it.
Of course in the comics it's already back, but that's another story.
Hmm, yeah. I suppose that might work if they pitted this and the X-Men universe against each other. Well, at least if they had done anything with the latter. We'd need characters we're invested in for that kind of conflict to really work, Every instance of multiversal nonsense so far has been pretty shrugworthy. Who's coming out on top? The characters we know or their multiversal counterparts who've only been introduced in this movie? Yeah.
Overread wrote: The Multiverse approach probably creates loads of sub-meta-plots. The thing its its scattershot through so many different series that you likely can't spot it unless you keep up with everything until they do the "everyone teams up to take it on" production where it all pulls together.
I kept up with everything and I don't know where we're headed.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
Secret Wars is barely a multiverse story. It's remarkably standalone and doesn't require a lot of set up to work. What it does need and we've been lacking, is establishing characters for it to focus on, which they've really just struggled with. A big part of that is the loss of Boseman, Sony getting weird with Spidey but they haven't found their core stars the way they were able to with the first Avengers film.
I do think the RDJ reveal was probably in the cards from the beginning. It's not what I want, but he absolutely fits the role Doom plays in the story and has the right emotional baggage attached to make it work. It's just a shame things fell so far off the rails they had to play that card so far in advance its not going to have quite the right impact.
I want Red Guardian to go crouching dumbgak, hidden dragon. That's all I want, Disney. You hear? I want the old fat guy to beat the absolute stuffing out of some mooks in a hallway.
The thing about 40k is that no one person can grasp the fullness of it.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Marvel films, like Marvel comics, have gotten way too timid about killing characters which robs things of stakes.
To be fair, that's not a problem exclusive to Marvel...
I'd love to see a reboot of both Marvel and DC's comics universes that starts over from the beginning and has characters aging, dying, and being replaced on a sensible timeline, instead of just freezing them in their 40's while entire new generations of characters grow up around them. Sadly, I think they've both painted themselves into a corner by hanging onto the original characters for so long.
