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I've been reading a lot about older models being phased out and no longer sold by GW...

I was reading that Scouts are going away, how will that affect the Neophytes of the Black Templar?

Also will they eventually phase out the box dreadnought?

The Scouts that got new models this year? That would certainly be a surprise.

Also, the classic box Dreads are already gone. The Venerable and Space Wolves ones are the only ones left because they haven't put Bjorn onto a Redemtor Chassis yet and the Venerable Dreadnought is still new enough to not get canned just yet.

The Old scout kit was replaced by a newer version of the kit awhile back.
The current kit builds all the options allowed to BT Neophites (as well as the options listed
I doubt it's going anywhere.

I was looking at the Grey Knight Dread, and thinking of the Deathwatch boxy Dreadnoughts when I asked, because beyond the Wolves I couldn't think of anyone who still used them, but theirs some really nifty conversions for them online that are tempting.

The reason for the Scouts was I heard their transport, the land speeder storm, was being taken out of service, and it made me wonder about the troops they carry.

Thanks for the info!

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I was looking at the Grey Knight Dread, and thinking of the Deathwatch boxy Dreadnoughts when I asked, because beyond the Wolves I couldn't think of anyone who still used them, but theirs some really nifty conversions for them online that are tempting.

The reason for the Scouts was I heard their transport, the land speeder storm, was being taken out of service, and it made me wonder about the troops they carry.

Thanks for the info!

Yes, the Scouts speeder has gone oop & it's rules transfered to the Legends section (along with the scout sniper squad).
Being Legends =/= out of service - unless you play in tourneys.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

Also will they eventually phase out the box dreadnought?

It's impossible to tell what GW will and won't phase out over time. Sometimes they make choices that seem logical and with foreshadowing; other times it comes right out of the blue.

Sometimes its not a popular choice but you can see the logic behind it; other times it just feels random.


For me it highlights a few important things
1) Buy models you like because of the model itself, not just its rules. Sure we might all buy models that perform really well; but rules only last 3years between major editions and updates can be faster than that sometimes. So liking models beyond their stats helps a LOT. Even if that really great model gets put into legends and removed - you still get to enjoy owning it.

2) Actually play with your models. Yeah this sounds basic but its super easy to just go through weeks/months of letting other things get in the way and not gaming then before you know it poof something got removed and you didn't even play with it yet. I think it highlights how important it is to get out; be social and play. Plus the more you play the more you'll get friends who will agree to a "lets play last edition" or "can I bring this old legends model for our game" etc...

I have three hundred ideas for armies. I need to borrow about 246,000,000 £ can someone float me a loan so I can buy every army in the game?


Honestly, I wish I could buy want I want, since my crazy idea is to buy some AT/Li Titans, with some Knight escorts and then I want to paint some 40k Knights up as the same Knights from my AT/Li forces.

'Just buy models you like' is all well and good... until GW arbitrarily remove/restrict those models.

If GW remove it then so what. Your hobby, your toys. In our group nothing gets removed. If it's in legends then all is fine. If not and someone wants to use something bought for the game and spent time painting it then we make rules for it.
We use a lot of different house rules as our only club rule is have fun. If we find something we don't like we change it, something that in the past was positively encouraged.

Jaxmeister wrote:
If GW remove it then so what. Your hobby, your toys. In our group nothing gets removed. If it's in legends then all is fine. If not and someone wants to use something bought for the game and spent time painting it then we make rules for it.
We use a lot of different house rules as our only club rule is have fun. If we find something we don't like we change it, something that in the past was positively encouraged.

That sounds awesome. But it’s also not the norm.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Jaxmeister wrote:
If GW remove it then so what. Your hobby, your toys. In our group nothing gets removed. If it's in legends then all is fine. If not and someone wants to use something bought for the game and spent time painting it then we make rules for it.
We use a lot of different house rules as our only club rule is have fun. If we find something we don't like we change it, something that in the past was positively encouraged.

That sounds awesome. But it’s also not the norm.

While I agree that not every game group can expect that approach to work, I do think it's a healthy one. At the very least, being open-minded about Legends can go a long way to help with this sort of thing.

 Wyldhunt wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

Jaxmeister wrote:
If GW remove it then so what. Your hobby, your toys. In our group nothing gets removed. If it's in legends then all is fine. If not and someone wants to use something bought for the game and spent time painting it then we make rules for it.
We use a lot of different house rules as our only club rule is have fun. If we find something we don't like we change it, something that in the past was positively encouraged.

That sounds awesome. But it’s also not the norm.

While I agree that not every game group can expect that approach to work, I do think it's a healthy one. At the very least, being open-minded about Legends can go a long way to help with this sort of thing.

Building your own campaign leagues of like-minded players helps too, rather than just showing up to stores and playing whoever happens to be around.

An established group with mutual trust doesn't need an outside authority to determine things for them.

In stores typically legends are welcome to be played. I have never seen someone turn down a game because the opponent had legends in their army. Most people appreciate playing something different than the norm.

Obviously in tournaments its usually a no-go.

I have enough old marines that i will play them as standaard intersessors its a marine whit a bolter, have enough plasma guns for 1 squad of hellblasters and enough flamers for 2 squads of infernusmarines.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
'Just buy models you like' is all well and good... until GW arbitrarily remove/restrict those models.

I think that dovetails with Overreads' point though - there's no telling what GW will do with this or that model, either changing its availability or legality or rules. So if you're buying models you actually like the model part of, then you're getting something out of it regardless; if you're buying models for what their rules are, you're hoping they'll stay acceptable to you for as long you'd like.

I just realized I don't think I've ever bought a GW model because I liked it and wanted to look at it for the rest of my years. I only get things to fill out my collection.

 Gibblets wrote:
I just realized I don't think I've ever bought a GW model because I liked it and wanted to look at it for the rest of my years. I only get things to fill out my collection.

I bought an Imperial Knight before I even knew the rules for it.

Longstrider wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
'Just buy models you like' is all well and good... until GW arbitrarily remove/restrict those models.

I think that dovetails with Overreads' point though - there's no telling what GW will do with this or that model, either changing its availability or legality or rules. So if you're buying models you actually like the model part of, then you're getting something out of it regardless; if you're buying models for what their rules are, you're hoping they'll stay acceptable to you for as long you'd like.

There is a degree of telling.

If someone posts saying that they really like Devastators and Venerable Dreadnoughts, and would that make a good basis for a Space Marine army, it would be remiss not to mention to them that those units are unlikely to have rules within a couple of years (and will likely lose Legends support with the next significant edition change).

Similarly, if you're looking for a safe long term army investment right now Grey Knights probably ain't a good choice...

That leads into my point of actually getting models you like onto the tabletop to play with. If you get your models and get a solid 3 years of playing before a new codex/battletome/edition drops. Hopefully over that time you'd develop a fondness for more than 1 or 2 models in your army*. You'd be "invested" into it enough in cost and enjoyment that when the new lands and something gets removed and new things get added; that you'd carry over into the new things.

Or you'd have a good playgroup established and still be able to "play with the old rules". Or perhaps modify the model or just use it as a counts-as something else. Eg a I bet a good few "greater demons" in metal are now pulling duty as "demon princes".

There are always going to be limit and breakpoints for people. My point is to more try and ensure that you buy what you like as a model from a hobby perspective because you can still enjoy it as a model to build, paint and have on the shelf not just to play with.

But you will always get people who are 100% in it just for the game itself; or who really do only like that 1 model and are willing to endure the rest of the army to use that model. There are always going to be extremes of approach and variations. In a sense each person has to come to their own conclusions


*unless you're playing something like Giants or Titans where it can be just 1 or 2 models for most of the army

Jaxmeister wrote:
If GW remove it then so what. Your hobby, your toys. In our group nothing gets removed. If it's in legends then all is fine. If not and someone wants to use something bought for the game and spent time painting it then we make rules for it.
We use a lot of different house rules as our only club rule is have fun. If we find something we don't like we change it, something that in the past was positively encouraged.

Good for you, but you will find out that there is a lot of groups, sometimes spaning whole countries or regions, where being no longer legal for matched play is as good as being illegal. I know an guy who has beastman army, did ton on conversions on them to make them all "tiger people". GW removed the army from the game. Had multiple people whose core all most of the army was sacrosanct, who wanted to return in the new edition. Well new edition removed their army from the game. White Scar guys with bike armies etc. Even losing a single unit or load out, like a sanguinary priest with a jump pack. There was one since 3ed? Now GW decided that, because they don't want to produce a model with it and rules=what is in the box, the option is gone. As a bonus they made venguard vets worse, because of a no longer existing BA option, For All Marines I have 3 dreadnoughts with double auto canons. No longer an option. DC losing option, Sang Guard going from 5 man squads to 3-6 man squads with different load outs etc. And again single unit or two feels bad, but it isn't what makes people quit, but when GW takes 500$+time you spent to paint/build/paints cost/etc people do. There isn't always a 9th Age to pick up players after GW did something really stupid to their armies. And the argument "well in my place this doesn't happen, so it isn't a problem" is just stupid, because there is enough posts online to show that it very much is a problem all around the world.

I am one of those people who's group only play League, for years. As we're all adults with jobs and families we can at best get a game once every other week. So they have to play in a league so that they can actually get a game as no one like waiting 10 days for someone to no show. Which leaves them playing the shittiest version of the game just so they can actually play at all. For me that means my DA army is useless (70% legends) and I'm still waiting for a book for my guard army that has any other detachment then that BS Born Soldiers rule. So I have no hobby as there's no one to play narrative or casual or OPR with for at least another 18months. Hell, I have a massive terrain collection and I can only use the ruins?!? (vomits in mouth).

After I gave up on 40K because of them killing my Dark Angels/Guard. I had a #rd party 3D printed Beasts army that a friend gave me; they were beautiful. I painted them up and actually got 6 games in with them B4 GW deleted them from the game. PPL asked me will I re-base the entire army and play a game I have no interest in learning, not a chance; the army went back, painted to my friend.

GW actively harms me and my ability to enjoy the models I have. IF you're lucky and have others that are open minded around you, remember you're lucky to have choices.

 Gibblets wrote:
I am one of those people who's group only play League, for years. As we're all adults with jobs and families we can at best get a game once every other week. So they have to play in a league so that they can actually get a game as no one like waiting 10 days for someone to no show. Which leaves them playing the shittiest version of the game just so they can actually play at all. For me that means my DA army is useless (70% legends) and I'm still waiting for a book for my guard army that has any other detachment then that BS Born Soldiers rule. So I have no hobby as there's no one to play narrative or casual or OPR with for at least another 18months. Hell, I have a massive terrain collection and I can only use the ruins?!? (vomits in mouth).

After I gave up on 40K because of them killing my Dark Angels/Guard. I had a #rd party 3D printed Beasts army that a friend gave me; they were beautiful. I painted them up and actually got 6 games in with them B4 GW deleted them from the game. PPL asked me will I re-base the entire army and play a game I have no interest in learning, not a chance; the army went back, painted to my friend.

GW actively harms me and my ability to enjoy the models I have. IF you're lucky and have others that are open minded around you, remember you're lucky to have choices.

Quit your sobbing.
Your problems are self-inflicted as you & your group have CHOSEN how to play.
There is nothing stopping you all from running leagues & Crusades that allow Legends. You can even run them on your existing 2 week schedule.
But apparently you don't. WHY NOT?

Oh, and your Beasts army? It's not in Legends yet. So what's your real excuse for not playing Sigmar?

I can understanding dropping an army a game no longer or will no longre support long term - sure Beasts of Chaos are still supported in so much as they have current rules that work but they won't get any new models nor new rules nor updates.

That said its a shame you've already sent them back as these days I'd encourage you to have looked at One Page Rules as an option where you could still use your beasts force with their system whilst friends could use their GW models as well. Granted it means getting people into a new game system but at least they don't have to "buy" any new models to try it out if they are already playing AoS games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:


Quit your sobbing.
Your problems are self-inflicted as you & your group have CHOSEN how to play.

That's rather harsh to say. A single person cannot define how a group plays. They can encourage and promote an idea, but if the group doesn't want to do X then you can't "force" the group to do it. It's the sum of its parts not the individual.

Sure you can promote old editions too; but many people often stick to the latest and move with that rather than going back. Again you can encourage, market, promote and all but if no one takes you gotta either try another group; form your own or move with the times




Heck I'm sad that Warmachine falling apart as it has means that, whilst they are legends, Everblight is dead as an army now*


*I'm still hoping it survives as they update the new game with new models; a few Warmachine armies have!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

 Gibblets wrote:
I am one of those people who's group only play League, for years. As we're all adults with jobs and families we can at best get a game once every other week. So they have to play in a league so that they can actually get a game as no one like waiting 10 days for someone to no show. Which leaves them playing the shittiest version of the game just so they can actually play at all. For me that means my DA army is useless (70% legends) and I'm still waiting for a book for my guard army that has any other detachment then that BS Born Soldiers rule. So I have no hobby as there's no one to play narrative or casual or OPR with for at least another 18months. Hell, I have a massive terrain collection and I can only use the ruins?!? (vomits in mouth).

After I gave up on 40K because of them killing my Dark Angels/Guard. I had a #rd party 3D printed Beasts army that a friend gave me; they were beautiful. I painted them up and actually got 6 games in with them B4 GW deleted them from the game. PPL asked me will I re-base the entire army and play a game I have no interest in learning, not a chance; the army went back, painted to my friend.

GW actively harms me and my ability to enjoy the models I have. IF you're lucky and have others that are open minded around you, remember you're lucky to have choices.

Quit your sobbing.
Your problems are self-inflicted as you & your group have CHOSEN how to play.
There is nothing stopping you all from running leagues & Crusades that allow Legends. You can even run them on your existing 2 week schedule.
But apparently you don't. WHY NOT?

Oh, and your Beasts army? It's not in Legends yet. So what's your real excuse for not playing Sigmar?

AoS4 is closer to 40K 10th then AoS3 was in mission structure. I hate playing a game that requires me to setup the terrain in an exact way with the exact pieces prescribed, which is now the case with AoS4th. It kills any immersion or visual joy I would get from the game to play on cookie cutter tables. I won't play a game like that as evidenced by 40K 10th and it's MDF L shaped ruin hellscape; so why would I play the fantasy version of that? Also the BoC rules support for 4th is about to run out by summer 2025, why play bad missions with an army that's soon to be killed in 6 months time? Better to find something else to do with my time then prop up GWs gak business model. The funny part is the answers to the bulk of your defensive outburst are already in my first post. They play league for years and they've turned me down the 15 times that I've brought up trying OPR, doing a narrative event, or just playing on a beautiful table; 0 takers. It seems that your personal privilege is rendering you ignorant to the reality of others.

I've been out of the gaming scene, and haven't played WarmMachine since Magnus, the Traitor was a force.

What is going on with the game... why is it "falling apart?"

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I've been out of the gaming scene, and haven't played WarmMachine since Magnus, the Traitor was a force.

What is going on with the game... why is it "falling apart?"

PP basically borked their 3rd edition launch (hints are that they rushed it out the door to compete with a GW release schedule); then proceeded to make a series of poor choices/mistakes/bad luck. Eg they shut down their forum; closed their Press Ganger local rep system; didn't resolve their shipping issues; had problems with overseas factories holding moulds to ransom and materials/production that weren't up to standard as they tried to shift to plastic.

At the same time this is when GW turned a BIG corner and started listening to fans a bit more and started doing things like posting news online and stopped trying to sue news websites and such.


So basically there was a massive migration from Warmachine back to Warhammer.

Since then PP basically kept getting weaker until very recently when they sold to Steamforged Games in part. Warmachine 4.0 is a very new beast as they've taken ALL the old stock off sale and shifted into 3D print production. They did that sometime last year, but it was this year they sold to Steamforged to try and basically recover. Fingers crossed its a turning point for recovery

The underlining truth of the game is that your experience will be defined by your local tabletop community. And not even GW can change that.

So if you don't like how your local groups play then you are gak out of luck and are better looking for another hobby.

And I repeat, GW cannot change that, so if you are hoping one day GW does a 180° and that will somehow "fix" your local players... Lol wake up.

I'm aware of how lucky I am with the group of players I'm with. It wasn't all sweetness and light as at first there were disagreements and we did lose a few players who wanted what was best for them only, they were politely told to leave. They then joined a larger group so good they could still play, however quite a few from there joined us.
It's true that all groups are different and that's how it should be, my view is playing the game you want how you want to. Our main rules are being polite, fair and fun to play with and enjoy your games.
Ours is such an inclusive hobby or it should be, we certainly are. Our partners know what we're up to as 4 of the wives play and 6 others have their own painting group where they paint our toys for us, there is a slight catch to that which we won't go into. We also have 11 of our children gaming ( not all mine, others also have children). Added to which 5 of their friends have joined and recently 3 parents who wanted to know what it was about, a quick teaching game later and we had them hooked!
Meaning to this drivel? Have fun and enjoy yourselves, life's too short not to have fun.

 Gibblets wrote:
I just realized I don't think I've ever bought a GW model because I liked it and wanted to look at it for the rest of my years. I only get things to fill out my collection.

Which is a fine approach, to be sure! It just means that if the rules change on you in a way you don't like it can lead to the feeling of wasted time/money/effort. Unless by collection you mean just the enjoyment of collecting, which can also stand independently. Though as we see the fluff can also change so if you're trying to have a collectin that matches the current canon, that can also lead to the same problem.

Yeah my goal is to make sure I had all the tools for my guard army as I collect armies, not lists. My joy is in a large cohesive model and terrain collection As you rightly point out. My Dark Angels were over 8Kpts, Dark eldar over 8k pts and my Guard is well above 13k pts now. Maybe the new ratlings in a few years, if I ever have spending money, I could finally get some into my collection. (last unit entry I'm missing) As a hobbyist I intentionally avoid w/e is the newest best thing, as it's a trap that conditions people to throw their money away. I waited until Wyverns were bad to get one, same with the Valkyrie. Most of my collection is 2nd hand/Ebay deals.