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Just a quick question. I was at a local game shop when I ran into something that I never thought about.

One player had "Grot Tanks." I'd never heard of those before, and his opponent asked him for a copy of their rules.

The ork player said he didn't bring them, but he knew them by heart and could recite them. His opponent didn't like that and wanted to see them.

Long story short, someone pulled up the rules online and the game continued. And the Grot Tanks didn't really do much as I could tell.

My question is: Should a person who wants to play with Legends or otherwise obscure forces be required to bring the rules with them to a game?

Yes. That’s not even a Legends thing-you should always be prepared to show your rules, for any unit. Especially since memory is fallible.

Indeed. Too many experiences in the past with 'I know the rules' players getting stuff wrong... You should always have the rules with you for anything you are using.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Yes. That’s not even a Legends thing-you should always be prepared to show your rules, for any unit. Especially since memory is fallible.

This 1000%
GW has so many editions, updates and so forth over the years that memorising the rules for models is nearly impossible. Even if you DO have a photographic memory for stats there's a very easy chance that you wind up remembering the wrong edition or mixing two or three editions of stats up.

Part of the game is bringing your rules along with you. That's for your own reference and because its an open information game where your opponent is fully within their rules to read the rules of your army. Not to mention its how you resolve any issues that might arise between two units interacting and so forth. Sometimes the specific wording on an ability can define if it can or can't do something in a relation with another rule in the game



So yes if you want to use anything - bring the rules.
After that things like legends and such which aren't in the "core" rules of the game shoudl always be discussed (as much as possible) before the game with your opponent.

At its worst, asking your opponent to rely on your memory of the unit is just asking for accusations of cheating for advantage. Some units have pretty crazy abilities which, without written evidence can sound conveniently like you're adding abilities to get a better outcome.

'oh you killed my Fuegan? rolls d6 - oh looks like he's back up not dead because of a special rule I assure you he has'....

Given those abilities will come up just when they're most useful, it always looks suspicious despite being success bias fallacy.

What do you bring with you to a FLGS? (Rulebook, Codex, Datacards, printouts, WH40k app?)

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
What do you bring with you to a FLGS? (Rulebook, Codex, Datacards, printouts, WH40k app?)

I have all my units printed out, as well as faction and detachment rules.

But even just the Warhammer App or other sources of online rules are fine.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
What do you bring with you to a FLGS? (Rulebook, Codex, Datacards, printouts, WH40k app?)

At bare minimum I bring Rules and Codex.
For Rules ideally try and get one of the pocket/smaller rulebooks instead of the BIG rulebook; just because the big one has loads of other stuff you don't need to game with and its big and bulky.

The Warhammer App is VERY useful since it has up to date stats, plus it will have any expansion stats such as if a new campaign book adds some new models to your army. The codex is still great as a general reference, but the app can be very handy when playing.

After that it can be helpful to print out the FAQ and Errata for the core rules and your army.




Basically you bring all the written material (in written or digital form) that contains all the information on how to play the game. Ideally your opponent does the same, but you can always share something like a core rule book between you.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Just a quick question. I was at a local game shop when I ran into something that I never thought about.

One player had "Grot Tanks." I'd never heard of those before, and his opponent asked him for a copy of their rules.

The ork player said he didn't bring them, but he knew them by heart and could recite them. His opponent didn't like that and wanted to see them.

Long story short, someone pulled up the rules online and the game continued. And the Grot Tanks didn't really do much as I could tell.

My question is: Should a person who wants to play with Legends or otherwise obscure forces be required to bring the rules with them to a game?

It doesn't matter if it's Legends or anything else, including a basic Space Marine, you should ALWAYS be able to produce the rules for your units.
GW app, GW Community PDFs, Whahapedia, good old fashioned paper copy - there's no excuse for not having access to your rules.
SHOW, not tell.
Never believe your opponent when they claim to "know them by heart & can recite them" (even if they turn out to be correct).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
What do you bring with you to a FLGS? (Rulebook, Codex, Datacards, printouts, WH40k app?)

Yes.
Plus a copy of the cards/Crusade book/etc as appropriate.

I usually print my list with the special rules from battlescribe. I've given up on buying Codizes and rules since 10th. But I'm not playing in a store.

 insaniak wrote:
Indeed. Too many experiences in the past with 'I know the rules' players getting stuff wrong... You should always have the rules with you for anything you are using.

Hell, you should periodically re-check your own rules.

GW just changes stuff for no reason.

For example, didn't realize Tau Missile Pods dropped to AP -1 for like most of the edition.

GW reducing AP across all factions and vast numbers of weapons was one of the big highlights / announcements of 10th, making armour slightly more relevant again compared to 9th.

We can debate the success of this, but it being for "no reason" when reducing AP was arguably one of the big things they publicly and explicitly set out to do and sold 10th Ed. rule changes on seems obstinate in the extreme.

You should bring all of the rules which you're using in hardcopy.

 Overread wrote:
After that things like legends and such which aren't in the "core" rules of the game shoudl always be discussed (as much as possible) before the game with your opponent.

Your opponent should be informed, sure, but you don't need them to say its OK for you to use Legends units.

I have a couple of Daemonhosts in my current Crusade roster, so I printed the datasheet from WarCom.

Bring your rules, people!

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
What do you bring with you to a FLGS? (Rulebook, Codex, Datacards, printouts, WH40k app?)

You don't really need the Codex AND Datacards since they are redundant, but some people like the cards for quick reference and the codex for more detailed stuff. I print out anything not in the dex and don't really use the app, but that's just me.

To go with the others, yes, it's always a good idea to have all rules on hand, but especially so with Legends since you will likely be the only one there that knows those rules. Last edition I was using a more obscure unit and misread the rules on it. Basically I didn't realize that the upgrade to give it a "Sustained Hits" to ranged attacks arua replaced it's primary weapon, and thought it was just a points upgrade. Played it wrong for half the edition until someone finally checked me on it.

It's not bad to ask to see rules or to have people ask you, it doesn't mean anyone thinks anyone is cheating, we all make mistakes.

(Also cool to see grot tanks out and about, I hope they get a plastic re-make soon).

Thanks for the help,I'm going to follow the rule: "If you're going to play it, bring the rules for it."

Thank goodness these AT books are light.

 SYLOH wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Indeed. Too many experiences in the past with 'I know the rules' players getting stuff wrong... You should always have the rules with you for anything you are using.

Hell, you should periodically re-check your own rules.

GW just changes stuff for no reason.

For example, didn't realize Tau Missile Pods dropped to AP -1 for like most of the edition.

This 100% and read them closely. I played necrons off and on last edition and when I used destroyers I used them with their old Invul save not realizing until this edition that skorpekhs and lokusts dont have them anymore. Granted, that might have only been a handful of games due to the large number of armies I have and the low numbers of games I get in during a given year but still. No one called me on it and I didnt notice this edition until I looked something unrelated up and saw it listed in one place and not in another where it "should" have been on the destroyers if they had it. <facepalm>

Especially with legends rules, your unit rules should always be on you when playing them, even more so since they are free on warhammer community.