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Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




At the last RTT, it was ruled that a unit under half-strength that arrived from reserves (e.g. a single stromboy that I put in reserve via stratagem in tactical brigade) had to take a battle shock test upon arriving, and since it was in the movement and not command phase, couldn't auto pass it via CP. I actually never heard of that rule, but tournament organizer, judge and many of the local tournament attendants said it was definitely a rule in some FAQ, although they couldn't show it to me at that point. Since it really didn't matter since I was loosing big anyways, I let it pass, but after digging through all the FAQ/ Rules commentary etc I still can't find any rule like this. Does such a rule really exist, and if it does, could you please point me to the correct location?
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Minnesota

Well I can't find any basis for it. Core battle-shock rules say "on the battlefield" and I don't see anything in Reinforcements telling you to roll out of phase.

Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
 
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers






Tapping the Glass at the Herpetarium

I pulled my Knight Crusader off the table yesterday using Mysterious Guardian. He returned at under half strength, and no one mentioned a battle shock test.

If you find this, tell us. I can't find it anywhere.

 BorderCountess wrote:
Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...


"Vulkan: There will be no Rad or Phosphex in my legion. We shall fight wars humanely. Some things should be left in the dark age."
"Ferrus: Oh cool, when are you going to stop burning people to death?"
"Vulkan: I do not understand the question."

– A conversation between the X and XVIII Primarchs


 
   
Made in es
Screaming Shining Spear





 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I pulled my Knight Crusader off the table yesterday using Mysterious Guardian. He returned at under half strength, and no one mentioned a battle shock test.

If you find this, tell us. I can't find it anywhere.


In Warcom Downloads Core rules update and Rules commentary.

Check page 28 Repositioned units point 4.

* If a repositioned unit is Below Half-strength and it was not on
the battlefield during your Command phase, it must take a
Battle-shock test as if it were your Command phase after it has
been set back up*
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers






Tapping the Glass at the Herpetarium

Thank you.

 BorderCountess wrote:
Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...


"Vulkan: There will be no Rad or Phosphex in my legion. We shall fight wars humanely. Some things should be left in the dark age."
"Ferrus: Oh cool, when are you going to stop burning people to death?"
"Vulkan: I do not understand the question."

– A conversation between the X and XVIII Primarchs


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Southern New Hampshire

The note on repositioned units is referring to abilities that make the unit move right then, like Da Jump. Returning to Reserves is not the same thing.

She/Her

"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln

LatheBiosas wrote:I have such a difficult time hitting my opponents... setting them on fire seems so much simpler.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.


DR:80S++G++M--B+IPwhfb01#+D+++A+++/fWD258R++T(D)DM+++
 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Minnesota

 BorderCountess wrote:
The note on repositioned units is referring to abilities that make the unit move right then, like Da Jump. Returning to Reserves is not the same thing.

I don't see how that could be the intent since if the movement is instantaneous a unit could never be off the battlefield during your Command Phase at all. I think it is meant to apply to any case of setting up a unit that was previously on the battlefield, in which case the tourney ruling was correct.

EDIT: Wait so does being embarked in a transport exempt a unit from battle-shock checks? It isn't on the battlefield and disembarking isn't a reposition. But that would seem strangely inconsistent.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/02/23 23:20:24


Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Southern New Hampshire

I'm sure somewhere in the vastness of 40k's rules there's an ability that you leave in your command phase and come back in the subsequent movement phase. Even if there currently isn't, they're covered in case there ever is.

Also, by RAW a unit in a transport wouldn't test.

She/Her

"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln

LatheBiosas wrote:I have such a difficult time hitting my opponents... setting them on fire seems so much simpler.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.


DR:80S++G++M--B+IPwhfb01#+D+++A+++/fWD258R++T(D)DM+++
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 BorderCountess wrote:
The note on repositioned units is referring to abilities that make the unit move right then, like Da Jump. Returning to Reserves is not the same thing.


Placing units in strategic reserves and then back on the battlefield is a rule which enables units to be repositioned by removing them from the battlefield then setting them back up on the battlefield. So point 4 applies to strategic reserves. A below half strength unit that comes back has to take a battle shock test.

REPOSITIONED UNITS
Some rules enable units to be repositioned by removing them from
the battlefield then setting them back up on the battlefield.
Units that
use such rules are known as repositioned units, and the points below
always apply to them in addition to any other rules that can affect
that unit, such as where they can or cannot be set up. Note that units
that are using rules to embark within or disembark from Transports
are not repositioned units.



Units that disembark from transport are not repositioned units.They dont have to take a battle shock test when disembarking.
   
Made in ca
Winged Kroot Vulture





 Lord Perversor wrote:
 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I pulled my Knight Crusader off the table yesterday using Mysterious Guardian. He returned at under half strength, and no one mentioned a battle shock test.

If you find this, tell us. I can't find it anywhere.


In Warcom Downloads Core rules update and Rules commentary.

Check page 28 Repositioned units point 4.

* If a repositioned unit is Below Half-strength and it was not on
the battlefield during your Command phase, it must take a
Battle-shock test as if it were your Command phase after it has
been set back up*


That's good to know.

Question then, if you are taking the test as though it were your command phase, could you still use the auto pass given that you are treating the test as though it were your command phase?

Armies:  
   
Made in ca
Fully-charged Electropriest






No, as stated:

Some rules allow a model or unit to move, shoot, charge or fight outside of the normal turn sequence. For example, the Fire Overwatch Stratagem enables a unit to shoot in your opponent’s turn as if it were your Shooting phase. When using out-of-phase rules to perform an action as if it were one of your phases, you cannot use any other rules that are normally triggered in that phase.


Insane Bravery says that it actives in the "Battle-shock step of your Command phase, just before you take a Battle-shock test for a unit from your army" so it can't be used in another phase.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Southern New Hampshire

I'm still not convinced that "returned to reserves" = "repositioned units".

Can someone with better rules-fu than me shed some light?

She/Her

"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln

LatheBiosas wrote:I have such a difficult time hitting my opponents... setting them on fire seems so much simpler.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.


DR:80S++G++M--B+IPwhfb01#+D+++A+++/fWD258R++T(D)DM+++
 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

 BorderCountess wrote:
I'm still not convinced that "returned to reserves" = "repositioned units".

Can someone with better rules-fu than me shed some light?


I am not a rules-fu guy, but I will try.

Lets say I have a Scout Squad with a starting strength of five. On my opponent's shooting phase he destroys three of the Scouts, leaving two. I then use Guerrilla Tactics to place them in Strategic Reserves, giving me some options for them in my turn to score potential Secondaries. The Guerrilla Tactics ability states: "...you can remove this unit from the battlefield and place it into Strategic Reserves." So, when it comes to my turn I have to take a Battleshock test for them in my movement phase when I set it back up on the battlefield.

This is important, since without the Repositioned Units commentary I could skip taking a Battleshock test and be worry-free about using that unit to score Secondaries.

That is how I read it and how TOs have been applying it in my experience.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine





Tacoma, WA, USA

I agree. The two key parts from the rules commentary are:

REPOSITIONED UNITS
Some rules enable units to be repositioned by removing them from the battlefield then setting them back up on the battlefield. Units that use such rules are known as repositioned units, and the points below always apply to them in addition to any other rules that can affect that unit, such as where they can or cannot be set up. Note that units that are using rules to embark within or disembark from Transports are not repositioned units.
Using a rule to remove the unit from the board and place it onto Strategic Reserves qualifies since it allows you to remove the unit form the battlefield and set it back up (not immediately, but eventually).

4. If a repositioned unit is Below Half-strength and it was not on the battlefield during your Command phase, it must take a Battle-shock test as if it were your Command phase after it has been set back up.
This rule only makes sense if it applies to units that are removed from the battlefield and not immediately set up. Removing a unit and setting it up within the Command phase means it was still on the board during the Command phase and thus took any required battle-shock test at the normal time.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

A whole lot of time/debate/confusion could've been avoided if they'd simply written that Battleshock tests must be taken in the command phase for any unit that's below 50%, regardless of where they currently are .
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Minnesota

ccs wrote:
A whole lot of time/debate/confusion could've been avoided if they'd simply written that Battleshock tests must be taken in the command phase for any unit that's below 50%, regardless of where they currently are .

Yeah it literally could have been less text and it would solve the whole problem.

Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
 
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine





Tacoma, WA, USA

As a rule, GW doesn't have you do anything with models that are not on the board, hence no BS test for those units.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Not true. Units can still use rules and abilities while in reserves. See Rules Commentary, Reserve Units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/03/05 07:02:57


 
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine





Tacoma, WA, USA

And yet such rules are rare. As they say “exceptions make the rule”.
   
 
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