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After building 15 Krieg Engineers yesterday/today?

He'll yes I miss metal models.

The plastic Krieg are excellent models. But I don't see the point investing that much effort into building infantry.
I very much wished I could've just popped 15 metal minis out of blisters/boxes, maybe had to glue a few arms on, & stuck them on bases.
Instead? I had to trim, clean, not drop tiny bitz, & assemble 10-15 pieces (not counting bases) per Engineer.....

ccs wrote:
After building 15 Krieg Engineers yesterday/today?

He'll yes I miss metal models.

The plastic Krieg are excellent models. But I don't see the point investing that much effort into building infantry.
I very much wished I could've just popped 15 metal minis out of blisters/boxes, maybe had to glue a few arms on, & stuck them on bases.
Instead? I had to trim, clean, not drop tiny bitz, & assemble 10-15 pieces (not counting bases) per Engineer.....

Ouch. I had no idea they were that detailed.

ccs wrote:
After building 15 Krieg Engineers yesterday/today?

He'll yes I miss metal models.

The plastic Krieg are excellent models. But I don't see the point investing that much effort into building infantry.
I very much wished I could've just popped 15 metal minis out of blisters/boxes, maybe had to glue a few arms on, & stuck them on bases.
Instead? I had to trim, clean, not drop tiny bitz, & assemble 10-15 pieces (not counting bases) per Engineer.....

I have 40 HH tech thralls on my pile and feel like the big robots from the Mechanicum starter will be built faster than those Zombies

Do I miss heavy, hard to convert and finicky to assemble models?

Heck no.

One of the reasons I walked away from Warmachine wasn't just the edition change but because I was tired of pinning and gap filling metal, having my metal banners fall off of miniatures, etc.

Metal had a place in the miniatures hobby, but to me it's the same place that steam engines had - they were important and opened up a whole industry, but there's not much point in them now.

I have not posted in years as I invested into other successful advenues in the real world. So I have little to no time dealing overall with this hobby.

I started playing this game in 1987/88 era.

It depends on the metal model but I can tell you over the years my Juan Diaz All metal Daemonette army has gone up in value by 1000% Since purchasing it and playing in the "real" GT Circuit of old.

My all metal Terminator Army has gone up 500% overall.

My plastic models. NOT so much over metal. The only way to make a serious profit is to part them out into bits. I still have over 100 pounds of plastic bits to mess around with.

Value is what you make of it. If you like the hobby and all what goes with it then it does not matter if it is plastic or metal.


As I have commented for so many years before leaving mostly the hobby. My metal miniatures have great value, because appraisers FEEL the weight of what is being insured. Regardless of the model that has been beautifully painted/converted. IMHO it seems the appraisers. Plastic... hit or miss.

And over the years, Normies are the same way. However Normies will rather play the digital version of this game than the physical. current day modern trends of the hobby.

So in my case the value of my purchases have appreciated in value both in metal and plastic. However the reason why I got into the hobby is for the mental stimulation of playing a real strategic game which IMHO has been overall reduced.

Plastic does overall have ease of use but in my case there are certain Metal Lines you just can't beat the quality of the model.
Because the modeller of that time were just that good.

I don't miss metal models at all. However, I do miss the simpler, multi-pose plastic figures that GW used to do. They could be assembled fast, they were robust, and you still had variety amongst the poses. I recently acquired some of the old RTB01 Marines, and a couple of the RT vehicles. While the detail is crude, the approach was right - they were practical wargaming models, not display pieces. They were also very easy to convert with plasticard and other odds and ends. I would like to see a return to that approach.

While I personally enjoyed assembling old multipose GW models, I also disliked encountering ones built by people with too much fancy and too little respect for anatomy. Arms flailing around as if broken at the shoulder, heads bent at unnatural angles, terrible looking weird assembly for the sake of being "dynamic" or "unique".

...shudder...

Honestly when you bring in real posing a lot of the modular more poseable models often wound up with only a handful of actual poses you'd use anyway.

Cyel wrote:
While I personally enjoyed assembling old multipose GW models, I also disliked encountering ones built by people with too much fancy and too little respect for anatomy. Arms flailing around as if broken at the shoulder, heads bent at unnatural angles, terrible looking weird assembly for the sake of being "dynamic" or "unique".

...shudder...

"I didn't have a left arm, so I used a right arm instead. I think it looks ok!"

 insaniak wrote:

Cyel wrote:
While I personally enjoyed assembling old multipose GW models, I also disliked encountering ones built by people with too much fancy and too little respect for anatomy. Arms flailing around as if broken at the shoulder, heads bent at unnatural angles, terrible looking weird assembly for the sake of being "dynamic" or "unique".

...shudder...

"I didn't have a left arm, so I used a right arm instead. I think it looks ok!"

If it's Chaos, it all makes sense!

 Overread wrote:
Honestly when you bring in real posing a lot of the modular more poseable models often wound up with only a handful of actual poses you'd use anyway.

That's very true, but even small variations such as head and torso rotations, weapon position, etc go a long way to giving the look/illusion of unique individuals.

 Eilif wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly when you bring in real posing a lot of the modular more poseable models often wound up with only a handful of actual poses you'd use anyway.

That's very true, but even small variations such as head and torso rotations, weapon position, etc go a long way to giving the look/illusion of unique individuals.

And cross-kit compatibility. Back in the day the whole marine range was mostly modular and swappable. So it wasn’t just the ability to rotate the torso a little to change the motion, but to splash sternguard bits into tac squads, mix-and-match your own captain out of a bits box, and make an army that was more then the sum of it’s parts.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Eilif wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly when you bring in real posing a lot of the modular more poseable models often wound up with only a handful of actual poses you'd use anyway.

That's very true, but even small variations such as head and torso rotations, weapon position, etc go a long way to giving the look/illusion of unique individuals.

And cross-kit compatibility. Back in the day the whole marine range was mostly modular and swappable. So it wasn’t just the ability to rotate the torso a little to change the motion, but to splash sternguard bits into tac squads, mix-and-match your own captain out of a bits box, and make an army that was more then the sum of it’s parts.

Absolutely! I did a ton of that sort of kitbashing years back. I still look at kits today and think "I'll make the unit on the box and then I can use the remaining bits for...."
I haven't bought new GW stuff in a while. Is GW still making any kits like these? It seems like they've ceded that ground to folks like Wargames Atlantic and Northstar. Both of whom have lots of kits with swapable parts.

I maintain what I call a "Bits Library" for the club (basically a well-organized bits collection sorted into many segemented trays). Alot of the contents of those are 00's GW kits and we're still finding uses for them today.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
The metal Greater Daemons were especially challenging, since the codex said they could not be pinned.

Take your exalt and get out of here dang it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:
After building 15 Krieg Engineers yesterday/today?

He'll yes I miss metal models.

The plastic Krieg are excellent models. But I don't see the point investing that much effort into building infantry.
I very much wished I could've just popped 15 metal minis out of blisters/boxes, maybe had to glue a few arms on, & stuck them on bases.
Instead? I had to trim, clean, not drop tiny bitz, & assemble 10-15 pieces (not counting bases) per Engineer.....

Hear, hear!

I think the Arbites have broken me. I got halfway through my Arbites boxes (keep in mind this is my favorite army) and just... stopped. I still can't work up enthusiasm to finish building them much less paint them.

For what could be simple metal models like the Arbites and Krieg, yes. Metal could still be the standard and we'd still have amazing models.

I also enjoy the heft of my metal Terminator Chaplain. It's just satisfying. I still use my metal Emperor's Champion, Helbrecht, and sometimes Grimaldus as brethren in my BT squads.

But knights in metal? Get bent.

I certainly miss picking up a blister pack of metal models for a fiver!
But for me they were a pain to convert and I didn't like all my guys having the same pose, it's the move back towards monopose plastics that is the real tragedy imo!

 Eilif wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly when you bring in real posing a lot of the modular more poseable models often wound up with only a handful of actual poses you'd use anyway.

That's very true, but even small variations such as head and torso rotations, weapon position, etc go a long way to giving the look/illusion of unique individuals.

I disagree. Multipart was great for units like Orcs were you could create the ragtag look with infinite combinations of different gear and poses. It did very little for more uniform units like Elves, which looked much better in formations in their monopose versions.

For the same reason Black Orcs were pretty bad, not because individual models were bad, but the same pose of every BOrc didn't fit the disorganised feel you expect from an Orc mob.

Cyel wrote:

 Eilif wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly when you bring in real posing a lot of the modular more poseable models often wound up with only a handful of actual poses you'd use anyway.

That's very true, but even small variations such as head and torso rotations, weapon position, etc go a long way to giving the look/illusion of unique individuals.

I disagree. Multipart was great for units like Orcs were you could create the ragtag look with infinite combinations of different gear and poses. It did very little for more uniform units like Elves, which looked much better in formations in their monopose versions.

For the same reason Black Orcs were pretty bad, not because individual models were bad, but the same pose of every BOrc didn't fit the disorganised feel you expect from an Orc mob.

Makes sense. The regimented, everyone looks the same works for a by-the-book Guard Army like Mordians or Steel Legion, but armies like Catachans or Orks should all be individuals that look like they were slapped together into a unit by a superior at the last moment.

Cyel wrote:
]

I disagree. Multipart was great for units like Orcs were you could create the ragtag look with infinite combinations of different gear and poses. It did very little for more uniform units like Elves, which looked much better in formations in their monopose versions.

For the same reason Black Orcs were pretty bad, not because individual models were bad, but the same pose of every BOrc didn't fit the disorganised feel you expect from an Orc mob.

I like both varieties. In my old school Chaos army I've got allot of monopose Battle Masters miniatures. I like the look of them, and it's certainly easier to prep. However, when I built my good guy army I went out of my way to make each spearman slightly different, and I quite liked that look as well

After having built the same Krieg kit as several others here, having such extremely limited options in the first place, I might as well have metal minis. The detail would not be as crisp, but I could have finished them more quickly if they're already nearly monopose with the equivalent of just one 'real' option - do you want a flamer or no?.

I do love the detail of the new plastic, missing the ease of convertibility of some of the older plastic. Also, the correct answer for new plastic mini hell is the corsairs kit - their arms are just so skinny its the first unit I've ever given up on building. Never got past three models.

I would say, I have a preference for miniatures that are good for being game pieces. Easy to pick up, move, easy to sit on the table or board, without a lot of gribbly bits that get in the way for being close to other models if they need to be in base contact.

I do like old metal miniatures, I do like old plastic miniatures. I do think some new plastic miniatures have far too many details or gribbly bits.

I miss models you can build your own way. I just put together the Chaos Dwarfs for Blood Bowl and it's two of the same frame in the box and other than heads and beards, etc the models are identical, so you wind up with a few very similar looking models.

The old system of legs, body, arms, head, weapon, base, accessories all being individual components is what I like the most, but I'd happily take a character or fixed character like these Blood Bowl teams in metal.

I still prefer metal models, but the fewer parts involved, the better. I even miss lead, because metal miniatures that are entirely lead-free are much more prone to breaking when bent. That makes "correcting" or "altering" a modern metal mini by bending it a much riskier proposition than it used to be.

Metal has:

- "the Heft." Strange as it may sound, the weight of metal miniatures really is addictive.

- metal can be stripped and repainted. You can completely mess up painting a mini and easily "reset" it without any loss of quality. I've done this a number of times, and it's lovely to rescue a mini that, in another medium, you'd be forced to buy another brand new (and probably expensive) one. That's a big advantage for those of us who aren't perfect painters.

- durability and longevity: if I keep them well, my metal miniatures will definitely last as long as me, and be around for some future person to enjoy when I'm gone. Silly or not, that appeals to me. I definitely like the idea that (if I manage my will right) they won't just be thrown in a landfill.

It's interesting how, due to nostalgic preferences, material and style blend for a lot of us, specifically old school hand-sculpted metal-cast miniatures. If GW were to re-release a bunch of classic Jes Goodwin metal sculpts in resin, I wouldn't buy them. Similarly, I really like that a number of current Oldhammer sculptors like Drew Williams of Satyr Arts Studio and Tim Prow of Diehard Miniatures still cast their miniatures in metal.

I still buy some plastics. I like good-quality PVC minis (some CMON, some Mantic,) and there are too many great PVC minis that will never be released in polystyrene to ignore. Death May Die's Gug is the best one I've ever seen in any material, for example. PVC minis can also be heated with boiling water and bent to correct or change the sculpt's pose. But for kitbashing, polystyrene is definitely king. If you mostly buy modern Games Workshop miniatures, I can understand if you're happy with that material and don't see any reason to deal with others that are more work to clean and assemble. I myself barely buy any modern Games Workshop figures, and I prefer kitbashing to assembling monopose sculpts.

The one material I shun is resin, due to its fragility. Resin-printed miniatures feel like boardgame money to me - not quite real. I'm hoping I have some more decades of life left, and I can't stand the idea of spending a lot of time carefully painting a resin mini only to have it fall and shatter some day, or just disintegrate before my eyes over time. If you google it, estimates for the natural lifespan of resin miniatures (without accident / breakage) generally seem to center around 10 to 15 years, depending on the particular resin used. That's not long enough for me. I still have metal miniatures I painted as a teenager when the world was young, and aside from a few scuffs, they're as good as they ever were.

Price pressure and 3-D printing are whittling away at metal miniature production these days, and I feel for mom-and-pop manufacturers who can't afford the leap to polystyrene, but I can't complain, because metal mini companies old and new have already served me well. I'll keep supporting them as long as they're around.

For those of us whose metal minis are even slightly collectible, there is also a monetary value to metal.

Especially with vintage GW metal, much of it holds it's value over time in a way that plastic and resin will not.

 Eilif wrote:
For those of us whose metal minis are even slightly collectible, there is also a monetary value to metal.

Especially with vintage GW metal, much of it holds it's value over time in a way that plastic and resin will not.

The only times this is a factor on my end is:
a) When I go and add something old to my collection
b) Once I'm dead someone will have the monumental task of clearing out decades of models/books/games. Maybe they'll make a fortune....

ccs wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
For those of us whose metal minis are even slightly collectible, there is also a monetary value to metal.

Especially with vintage GW metal, much of it holds it's value over time in a way that plastic and resin will not.

The only times this is a factor on my end is:
a) When I go and add something old to my collection
b) Once I'm dead someone will have the monumental task of clearing out decades of models/books/games. Maybe they'll make a fortune....

Fair point. I'll probably never part with most of my painted metal, but I've had enough situations where I acquired all the minis for a given project and then decided to ditch the project and sell them off that it does figure into my calculations. In the past I've sold off large un-done projects of:

-Battletech
-Spacelords
-Adeptus Arbites (never should have sold these...)
-Kryomek
-RT era marines
-GW LoTR.
-Essex Medievals
-Vintage Star Wars Miniatures

All of these were at least half metal or more and I do think it contributed significantly to the value. In almost every case I got more (often quite a bit more) than I paid. Most of what I've got left I want to hold onto, but there's a few projects might get sold off yet...

I missed metal models so much that I started building a WHQ set using only (non GW) metal models to get unique designs for each of the 2D6 of whatever it was I had to deploy. That and 3d plaster cast tile pieces to add a bit of detail to the board.

I think what I really missed was the individual hand sculpted models, and the metal. With CAD all your designs are literally identical with add ons, while there are subtle 'organic' differences in hand sculpted models.

I'm not sure I'd like CAD sculpted models cast in metal as much.


I did my first conversions with metal models and milliput before I got any greenstuff. Wolf lord on a bike, logan grimnar (2nd ED!).


Take away the difficulty of the medium, I find something about the heft and tangibility of the pieces, and maybe the nature of the material in its means of taking shapes that is different to plastic and gives it a more real feel.

 Eilif wrote:
For those of us whose metal minis are even slightly collectible, there is also a monetary value to metal.

Especially with vintage GW metal, much of it holds it's value over time in a way that plastic and resin will not.

Not entirely true. An unbuilt plastic Rogue Trader-era Land Raider kit (box of 2) is currently selling on eBay for US$795; it retailed for GBP12.99 in the early 90s. A single sprue of 2 RTB01 Marines sells for between US$20-40.

 Snord wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
For those of us whose metal minis are even slightly collectible, there is also a monetary value to metal.

Especially with vintage GW metal, much of it holds it's value over time in a way that plastic and resin will not.

Not entirely true. An unbuilt plastic Rogue Trader-era Land Raider kit (box of 2) is currently selling on eBay for US$795; it retailed for GBP12.99 in the early 90s. A single sprue of 2 RTB01 Marines sells for between US$20-40.

Likewise for oop FW stuff.
Recently I was looking to add Marauder Destroyer Bombers to my Guard.
I couldn't touch official ones for less than about $700.Ok, 3d prints or recasting it is...

ccs wrote:

 Snord wrote:

Not entirely true. An unbuilt plastic Rogue Trader-era Land Raider kit (box of 2) is currently selling on eBay for US$795; it retailed for GBP12.99 in the early 90s. A single sprue of 2 RTB01 Marines sells for between US$20-40.

Likewise for oop FW stuff.
Recently I was looking to add Marauder Destroyer Bombers to my Guard.
I couldn't touch official ones for less than about $700.Ok, 3d prints or recasting it is...

I take your points for sure. Some things like RT stuff, OOP Forgeworld Resin, etc will hold their value. I certainly got my value back several times over when I sold most of my RT marines, even the plastic ones.

Those are however exceptions that don't reflect the majority of previous version plastic GW stuff. Is anyone paying big bux for finecast? For painted plastic marines from 3rd-6th editions, etc? The value of that stuff drops off precipitously.