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I've been looking at the recent CSM releases and I was wondering why we haven't seen Primaris Chaos Space Marines.

At least we should see some Alpha Legionaires in Primaris armour.... right?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I've been looking at the recent CSM releases and I was wondering why we haven't seen Primaris Chaos Space Marines.

At least we should see some Alpha Legionaires in Primaris armour.... right?

Aside from some mentions of Bile studying the primaris and smugly believing he could implement the same thing I don't think there's any chaos primaris directly mentioned in canon.

The primaris members of the Brazen Drakes got taken out because their chapter was suspected of being corrupted, but it's a pretty small piece of fluff and IIRC clear that the primaris marines themselves were just hit with guilt by association.

Outside of canon my primaris are AL themed, no aquilas and some hydras here and there. Plain enough to pass with the more ignorant Imperial citizens. To me it just makes sense that the Alpha Legion would infiltrate primaris production and either insert their own members to be upgraded or put in some corrupted hypno-indoctrination to make a force of sleep agents.

None as of yet.

But the Alpha Legion could acquire some. Work out where Guilliman’s Gifting Fleets are headed. Target and annihilate those meant to receive the new toys. Impersonate them. Say thank you, run away giggling with lots of new lads and gear.

There's not been a massive amount of in universe time between their introduction to the galaxy and what would be "current day M41(?)".

Not enough time for corruption to set in and not a huge amount of time for certain agents (i.e. Bile or a Warband of the XXth) to make any real gains in having a large enough pool of gear or Primaris Astartes to make a worthwhile showing

As an individual modeling project, the world as they say is your oyster.

I don't think enough time has passed for a large quantity of Primaris marines to go full Chaos, but there certainly have been some Renegades (see: Brazen Drakes).

My AL army is made up mainly of primaris models, so there's that.

But yeah. It seems inevitable. If nothing else, some warband will eventually get their hands on a loyalist chapter world and suddenly have access to the notes on primaris creation.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
My AL army is made up mainly of primaris models, so there's that.

But yeah. It seems inevitable. If nothing else, some warband will eventually get their hands on a loyalist chapter world and suddenly have access to the notes on primaris creation.

Or a chapter with plenty of Primaris would fall.

Chaos marines need to be the same height as Primaris marines but aren't going to be called "Primaris" because GW wants to keep that a special SM thing.

So it's probably going to be a vague "eldritch warp-tech" that varies by legion making them equally tall and strong. Functionally the same thing but not able to steal the loyalists' thunder.

I'm sure Fabius Bile will unlock the Primaris trick. I remember in the War of the Spider, Bile was grabbing up Primaris and Custodes for future experiments.

Yeah, pretty sure it's just a matter of time. In terms of models it remains to be seen. I feel like when or if GW does acknowledge it, it'll be made a big deal out of it, like the first officially fallen "Primaris Lieutenant" that has a backstory of him being broken to serve the Despoiler or some other thing and he'll be one of the flagship Chaos models in the new starter boxset.

 Orkeosaurus wrote:
Chaos marines need to be the same height as Primaris marines but aren't going to be called "Primaris" because GW wants to keep that a special SM thing.

So it's probably going to be a vague "eldritch warp-tech" that varies by legion making them equally tall and strong. Functionally the same thing but not able to steal the loyalists' thunder.

They barely even need to bother. Intercessors and Legionnaires have the same stats. Heck, the only difference between an Intercessor and a Tactical Marine is one attack.

 BorderCountess wrote:
They barely even need to bother. Intercessors and Legionnaires have the same stats. Heck, the only difference between an Intercessor and a Tactical Marine is one attack.

Yeah. Kind of feel GW is giving up on Primaris as a thing vs first born.
"New CSM" are I think a few mm smaller than Primaris, but owning both I don't think its that noticeable. The 10th edition SM Terminators are quite a bit bigger than "new Chaos Terminators" - but I think that's just the usual size creep that occurs over time.

I expect them to shuffle the whole "primaris" label into the backstory in a codex or two and just say every space marine was made into a "primaris" and it's all over now. Because they're all going to have taller models and two wounds, which was the entire point of it.

 Orkeosaurus wrote:
I expect them to shuffle the whole "primaris" label into the backstory in a codex or two and just say every space marine was made into a "primaris" and it's all over now. Because they're all going to have taller models and two wounds, which was the entire point of it.

Yep! And it will be awkward and slightly embarrassing that it was ever presented as being a big deal in the first place. A handful of old sculpt characters will have a line of fluff mentioning how they stand out as one of the few firstborn marines left in the galaxy.

 Quixote wrote:
I'm sure Fabius Bile will unlock the Primaris trick. I remember in the War of the Spider, Bile was grabbing up Primaris and Custodes for future experiments.

When it comes to making marines, Bile is on the same level as his tutor Ezekiel Sedayne or Amar Astartes at this point, if not better. The only thing to come out Imperial labs he hasn't matched is completely new Primarchs of his own creation - likely because that requires warp shennanigans. I forget the exact extract, but he really wasn't impressed with Primaris. Bile was basically indifferent -Primaris were no different to any other somewhat enhanced marine he's made over the years in his eyes. Nothing particularly interesting or innovative. He could easily make an equivalent tomorrow if he wanted, he just doesn't care to.

The bit that impressed Bile with Cawl's work was actually Alpha Primus - who as the founding template for the Primaris built largely off Primarch material is more akin to a step between the two. Much like Janus in that regard. To quote directly:

'"To each of His sons the Emperor gave some of His gifts. I doubt any one being other than He could contain such power in its entirety. To each of the sons of those sons, a portion of those gifts were passed on in turn. I have several of these gifts. As many as Cawl dared give me."

Alpha Primus is made from the material of several primarchs. He's not just a derivative of a primarch, or a normal marine scaled up, but a true synthesis of several primarch facets blended together - potentially creating something new. But despite being stable, Alpha Primus hurts. His soul and psychic presence are a mutilated form.

‘I hurt,’ Primus interrupted. ‘Everywhere. My dreams are black. My soul is shackled by another man’s ideal. I see more and know more than any human being ever should. In creating me, Cawl tried to match the Emperor’s achievements. It did not work. I pay for his arrogance every second of every day. I tell you because you should know that the archmagos dominus’ talents are not infinite. I am your prototype, and living evidence of his overreach.’

If Alpha Primus could be made, it is possible he could be improved upon. The template perfected. And that? That Bile finds interesting. Far more interesting than making Aldi version Primaris marines.