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How do!

So following on from the Tactical Status thread, it seems that whilst the jury is out pending in-game experience, people are seeing potential in them. Which leads to this thread. As if you want to inflict Tactical Status? You’ll need a suitable weapon.

But more broadly, this is also an edition with greater freedom of movement. Even the heaviest weapons are move and fire, with a perk for being stationary, rather than a drawback to moving. At least…depending how you look at it.

My mind seems to have settled as interpreting each weapon’s potential first and foremost without any Stationary bonus. And whether you’ve interpreted them the other way? It’s a good idea to consider what you’ve got, and what it might be able to do for you now.

Looking at my cabinet of painted joy? I’ll run through the weapons my dudes have.

Bolters. About as basic a weapon as we can hope. More or less as they were, but with FP2. So two shots each at any range, and whether or not I’ve moved. So that feels nice.

Meltaguns Well, Melta no longer gives a bonus penetration dice. But, at 6” or shorter, they gain Armourbane and a very solid D6.

Plasmaguns 2 shots basic, S6 AP4, but Breaching (6+) unless you fire on Maximal, which gives S7, AP4, Breaching (5+) and Overload (essentially Gets Hot). Clearly no longer the bane of Power Armour. Now I’m not familiar with the wider stat lines each, but I do worry they might be a bit lame these days, with no really ideal target. Especially as a 10 point upgrade.

Volkite Caliver OK. Decent range at 30”, FP2 S6, AP5, D1, and Deflagrate (6) The Deflagrate is quite nice. Same S as the weapon, AP- D1, no special rules. Only triggered by unsaved wounds which wounded on a 6+ Slightly book keepy, but just need to split your wounds into Qualifying and Not Qualifying saves.

Missile Launchers Three profiles. Same as they ever were, but when Stationary Frag gets +1S (so S5), Krak and Flak go up to D2. With AP no longer mattering for Vehicle Penetration (so far as I’ve seen!), they may be pretty good these days.

Volkite Culverin. FP3 (4 when stationary) S6, AP5, D1, Deflagrate (6)

Plasma Cannon Yeah I’m really not feeling these. S6 unless stationary (Heavy RS), Breaching (6*), unless you go for Maximal Fire. Then you get S7, Breaching (5+) but also get Overload (2).

Autocannon Maybe their time has come! 2 shots on the hoof, 3 if stationary. Breaching (6+), S7, AP4, D2. Good against infantry, good against light to medium vehicles. Pretty handy if you use your new found movement to shoot bigger armour right up the hoop. Or even in the side.

Lascannon. These benefit heavily from Armourbane. No matter whether I’ve moved or not? I either do nowt to your vehicle, or I penetrate. And if fired from Stationary, a nice flat D2. Of all the heavy weapons currently at my disposal? These are the ones I think I’d want to keep a Stationary as possible. Or at least seek a good vantage point.

So…other than my Plasma Units? Not a huge amount has changed for my infantry. My Volkite Calivers don’t kick out quite so much firepower these days. But, at least I can freely move and fire. And I feel my Missile Launchers and Autocannon gains are a nice offset. I mean. Even if they move every single turn? They’re doing exactly what they used to do! And being able to get S5 Frag Missiles feels like a genuine tipping point in appeal.

But what of your collection? Feel free to weigh in on tanks and Dreads and anything. I’ve just stuck to my infantry for some brevity at this point.


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Also…whilst again I’m still chewing through it? Is it just me, or are there not a lot of re-rolls in 3rd Ed?

The very binary mechanics of anti-tank feel off to me, especially Melta in range, which only has two modes: bounce off harmlessly or one-shot the target. With the loss of old Melta, Sunder, Rending etc. there will be a whole lot more of shots just bouncing off, and new Armourbane means that dedicated anti-tank can't inflict statuses... coming to this weird meta where, in the short term, an autocannon round is much, much more debilitating to a tank than a lascannon beam, and it's a shame that we have, probably, now the most elegant system for degrading vehicle performance since 40k's inception, but it also comes up more rarely than ever.

I see where you’re coming from.

Armour certainly doesn’t seem as squishy this edition, but Tactical Status does have some appeal. If you can’t smash it? Make it rubbish.

But the list above are fairly common, dare I say basic, weapons? Once you start looking at traditionally vehicle or support mounted weapons, things open up some.

For instance, my sole Neutron Blaster Predator has a pokey anti-tank gun, which through Armourbane and Shock (Suppressed) may be the very dab against Super Heavies. Whack a bunch of Hull Points off it, and inflict a handy Tactical Status, where it can only make Snap Shots. Downside is Overload (1). So if I roll a 1 to hit? It’s me that takes the full brunt. All of it. S, D, and Shock. Ouch.

But yeah, for common weapons? Autocannons are definitely having their day in the sun right now. Outside of AV14? There’s nothing they’re not at least a reasonable answer to.


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Though…on the binary thing? I wonder if that may not be a prevalent as we might first think.

I say that given the greater freedom of movement. There’s now genuine sense in piling 10 Autocannon Marines in say, a Rhino, and getting them somewhere they can target side and rear armours. On the side, they should do some damage and leave at least a Tactical Status or two. On the rear? Only heavy tanks are likely to drive away from it.

Certainly it’s something I’m willing to take a punt on.


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Hmm. Possibly a saving grace for Volkite and Plasma. S6 is handy enough to glance lighter vehicles, and worry side armour.


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On the movement? I’m definitely finding myself mainly thinking in “getting out of the way”.

But I think it goes further than that. Other than Lascannon, in my collection I’m not seeing anything I think demands to be standing still. Which means my entire plan, strategy and tactics can keep shifting, as the majority of my force is free to move around.

And so I could potentially plan an all-infantry army intended to keep on the move, making it harder for an opponent to pin it down.

I'm personally REALLY looking forward to getting some games in with the new weapon profiles that revolve around statuses. My Sallies have always been pretty heavily burdened by the fact that massed flamers against power armor is (hopefully now *was*) fundamentally ineffective, so my Pyroclasts finally getting to use some templates is hopefully gonna be really fun. I also like that the benefit of status checks being independent of volume of fire and just needing a single weapon with an Status (X) landing a hit/wound incentivizes sprinkling in a special weapon or two in squads with the option as opposed to mono-loadouts. Next on my build project is some Sanctifiers, and being able to have a rotor cannon or two to inflict some suppressions along with massed hand flamer panic seems cool!

Biggest win of the new profiles is 100% phosphex though, VERY cool to see it accurately represented with rules as to how terrifying it is in the lore. Panic (3) is going to have even Praetors at a 50-ish percent (assuming my math is right) of running like hell; I'm almost expecting to see every IW, DG, and destroyer-themed list include a siegebreaker and rightfully so.

Something I am giving new consideration to would be things like Rapiers.

The Gravis Heavy Bolter battery throws out a load of shots, and has Suppresive (2).

I reckon even a battery of two, deployed to cover an objective or two might pay dividends.

With 36” range, I reckon that depending on LoS? They may prove extremely irritating.


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Sorry to keep adding.

But I’ve been reconsidering and recontextualising Plasma.

Sure, it’s not the Marine Deleter it was. But? 2 Shots, S6? That’s…that’s not bad for looking to inflict Status effects on tanks. And you don’t even need to use Maximal Fire to do so. And it’s still a fairly handy weapon against non-Marine elite infantry.

Not a unit I think could really perform unsupported, but still may have a role I’d not initially considered.

Plasma-wielding Salamanders in a Tactical Support Squad will only be wounded by their own weapons on a 3+, then they'll get an armour save.

1 in 6 chance of hitting themselves, 2 in 3 chance of hurting themself, 1 in 3 chance of failing their save. 1 in 27 chance of self-destruction. With ten marines taking twenty shots that should keep your damage to yourself pretty low whilst hurting much more expensive squads a lot.

Same logic applies to any plasma-wielding Salamanders.

Something I’m increasingly becoming a fan of is Ordnance (X).

Like Heavy Weapons, they get a stat boost, defined by the (X) if the unit remained stationary. The main examples I’ve found so far are D, or in the case of the Legends Medusa and Basilisk, RS.

So in an edition which at first impressions appears to reward a mobile, fluid army? Ordnance has a terrific encouragement to stay nice and still, and so rewarding careful initial deployment. Which I consider to be nice and fluffy, and so to me at least it feels “right”.

My mind also keeps coming back to Autocannon. In a Landraider Explorator. Turn up deep into an enemy flank, pop out the lads, and have a decent chance of turning a unit or up to medium tank to scrap.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Something I’m increasingly becoming a fan of is Ordnance (X).

Like Heavy Weapons, they get a stat boost, defined by the (X) if the unit remained stationary. The main examples I’ve found so far are D, or in the case of the Legends Medusa and Basilisk, RS.

So in an edition which at first impressions appears to reward a mobile, fluid army? Ordnance has a terrific encouragement to stay nice and still, and so rewarding careful initial deployment. Which I consider to be nice and fluffy, and so to me at least it feels “right”.

My mind also keeps coming back to Autocannon. In a Landraider Explorator. Turn up deep into an enemy flank, pop out the lads, and have a decent chance of turning a unit or up to medium tank to scrap.

Autocannons are pretty pricey. I like them a lot, but they could be better served with multimeltas.

I do really like the addition of more static elements in plastic(not a fan of resin). Quad rapier batteries, Arachne platform, and the sentry guns, sound really fun. I have been printing up a lot of fortification style terrain to go with them.

Plasma seems better. We breach on a higher number, but we can shoot a lot more at 24 inches.

Scrolling through the weapon list, it does feel like someone went through them one by one and asked "is this viable compared to other options in its slot?"

I don't think every weapon is good, but at least there was an attempt, and I don't think there was an attempt in 2.0

Yeah. I definitely have my preferences thus far, but I don’t think I’ve seen any outright stinkers.

Then again, still to get my first game in so that may change. But as I’ve a Plasma Gun squad, I think I’m gonna give it a whirl, as it’s the weapon family I’m currently least convinced about.

I really like a SoH volkite charger support squad. It looks fun with full BS volley fire. You don't seem to actually have to move your charge roll, if you don't contact with your setup move. I am bummed about how bad they are in CC now though, with no chainswords, and a single attack sergeant.

 Caledfwlch wrote:
I'm personally REALLY looking forward to getting some games in with the new weapon profiles that revolve around statuses. My Sallies have always been pretty heavily burdened by the fact that massed flamers against power armor is (hopefully now *was*) fundamentally ineffective, so my Pyroclasts finally getting to use some templates is hopefully gonna be really fun. I also like that the benefit of status checks being independent of volume of fire and just needing a single weapon with an Status (X) landing a hit/wound incentivizes sprinkling in a special weapon or two in squads with the option as opposed to mono-loadouts. Next on my build project is some Sanctifiers, and being able to have a rotor cannon or two to inflict some suppressions along with massed hand flamer panic seems cool!

Biggest win of the new profiles is 100% phosphex though, VERY cool to see it accurately represented with rules as to how terrifying it is in the lore. Panic (3) is going to have even Praetors at a 50-ish percent (assuming my math is right) of running like hell; I'm almost expecting to see every IW, DG, and destroyer-themed list include a siegebreaker and rightfully so.

My 3rd legion boys also want to mess around with that. Do a list focused on having as many status effects as possible. Naturally it's going to have a few units of kakophoni rocking around. Do a proper orchestra of the apocalypse.

Side note, tac vets with shotties, a flamer and a rotorcannon seem to be able to force 3 different status checks in a single round. That just feels mean.

I'm sure it's all very boring but Bolters seem to have some real teeth. Between 2 shots at 24 and easy Fury, Tacticals are a legitimate shooting threat. Honestly not sure if the range and being 2pts cheaper makes them a better prospect than Volkite Chargers.
Also, Combi Bolters have been eating their greens. I'm trying to think of interesting ways to build Tactical Veterans but it's hard to look past Boltspam as a baseline with maybe some heavy/special weapon support.

I also think AV14 is going to be very difficult to deal with for many lists, with the Kratos and Spartan being nigh indestructible with a Techmarine in tow. I suspect that having dedicated counter units is going to be a necessity in every list because they are hard to hurt and easy to fix. I expect a few Laser Rapiers to be a very common choice.

AV14 is still tough. But, with a lot of Armourbane I don’t think it’ll be insurmountable, as that entirely avoids Glancing.

I know not everyone is keen on Armourbane’s All-Or-Nothing shtick, but for actually dropping tanks it feels kinda essential to have at least some in your army.

Melta is also going to be pretty nasty. At short range it does heavy damage, and gains Armourbane. Sure, the humble Meltagun is only bothering AV14 on a 6. But when it bothers? It’ll be your Fluffery well and truly Bluffery with a cream horn on top.

Meltas are weird, might be the worst weapon group overall. Massed deep striking meltaguns will kill anything and so will the Kratos melta turret at 24", outside those all meltas seem bad, especually all the dreadnought arms.

Not sure I agree.

With Terminators going a bit 40K and enjoying higher T and Wounds as part of their overall Protectiness, Meltas have a new prey. And one they don’t necessarily need to be in Bonus Range of.

And my Mechanicum Automata would not like that up ‘em at all. Nor Dreadnoughts for that matter. Even at their longer ranges, a squad of Meltas have a decent chance of making Dreadnoughts go away.

Likewise, Primarchs now need to be pretty wary of Melta. Eternal Warrior is nice and all, but lots and lots of Dam 3 is gonna knack when it’s also AP2.

I mean, termies and legion elites have always been scared of meltas, that or lascannons. Same with primarchs. Auto cannons have been brought up a little but Plasma has been lowered.

Flamers, rotors and the like certainly hold a little more fear for a termie too. The chonky lads lost their quasi stubborn so they're more likely to run from a lost combat too.

IMO tanks do seem to have come out of the new edition a lot tougher with the weapon landscape. Even a chainfist isn't the sure thing it used to be since a single pen with high AP.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Something I am giving new consideration to would be things like Rapiers.

The Gravis Heavy Bolter battery throws out a load of shots, and has Suppresive (2).

I reckon even a battery of two, deployed to cover an objective or two might pay dividends.

With 36” range, I reckon that depending on LoS? They may prove extremely irritating.

Rapiers look like must-haves. Laser Destroyer is solid anti-tank. Grav can pull double-duty. Phosphex Quads are disgusting. HB even do good work, as you said. Really weird how much better they seem now vs prior editions.

It definitely feels like some level of care was put into ensuring every weapon has some kind of role to play.

That’s not to say, especially in such early days, that Stinkers won’t out in due course. But just casting my eye over the weapon summary pages (and yes, flipping back and forth to make sure I know the special rule) I find myself thinking “reckon I could put that to at least reasonable use”.

For my first game, I’m gonna wheel out Plasma Guns and some Volkite toys. Those families I’m currently the least convinced by. So I figure ripping that plaster off and applying the pressures of battle should help me find a way to make them useful. Or vow never to field them again.

Though I think I’ve misread the Deflagrate rule. In fact. I have. Most definitely. I thought the (X) related to to-wound rolls triggering it. It doesn’t. It dictates the RS of the burny hits.

Yes (and fair point about meltas earlier)

Easter egg hunt: Veteran Support Squad have the skill where they can use any non-Heavy weapon in Volley Fire.

I’m looking at Plasma (again) and trying to get my opinion down.

Their much lower Breaching isn’t great. But then, we’ve also seen Terminators increase in toughness, to the point a squad with S6 small arms may be fairly desirable.

Yet it’s still 10 points a pop.

Breaching dropping makes plasma weaker, but at the same time there is no longer a need to take out the tanking artificer sarge