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 legionaires wrote:
Looks like WGA will be getting more of my money now

Thanks! Our US factory is making product for the US and our UK factory is making product for everyone else everywhere else in the world. So no tariff shenanigans involved. And if you're in the EU we ship with IOSS from our UK warehouse.

To the moderator who edited my post - seriously? Jesus wept.

Laughing Man wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
I’m surprised no one has mentioned 3d printing yet. I was already spending 30-40% of my hobby money on 3d printed miniatures, this likely pushes it higher. I’ve gotten some really excellent 3d printed resin stuff off Etsy. All manufactured here in the USA. I think the 3d sculpting/patreon ecosystem has some of the best miniature designers and sculptors in the world. I like a lot of the indie stuff a ton more than GW designs.

As someone who does a ton of printing, this is going to increase my costs there as well. Nearly all printing supplies are manufactured in Asia (Taiwan and China, largely), so tariffs are going to end up being applied to resin and printer parts as well. I tend to order from Amazon (Elegoo's prices are significantly less there and free shipping is a thing, so it's painful not to), but they'll be applied at some point in the chain and I doubt Bezos decides that he'll eat the loss out of the kindness of his heart.

FDM will still be pretty affordable as a lot of people just buy the $15 rolls which will go up to like 20-25 but good resin will get really pricy. Already was about $50-$60 per liter. Sure you can print with the cheaper stuff but it's so brittle it's not really worth it in my opinion. I've got about 4 liters left and I'll just have to space things out based off of sales for the materials but I doubt I'll print much this year just because I have so much stuff I've printed over the years I've never even bothered to finish prepping and painting.

kabaakaba wrote:
We have tax for anything you buy outside the country from $20. And we live like this for years. And some kind of goods like cars for example have insane taxe of 80%. Idk, but for me people overreacting with new tariffs. Just another prices spike

Ecuador has a self-import allowance call the "4x4" rule: anything that is no more that 4lbs & small in dimensions (I can't recall if it's a box size of no more that 4ft per side or something), & up to $1600 a year per cedula number, free, before being taxed. But recently they've introduced a flat tariff of $20 as well on ALL self-imports. Ostensibly this is to protect local garment manufacturers (lots of people using TEMU FREX), but it is a blanket tariff that impacts everything. So, if/when I go back to live there, it'll be more expensive for me to support my hobbies. Seems to be the way the world is going.

As an aside, no there isn't a big Warhammer scene there, only in Quito, & possibly in Guayaquil.

Damon.

 NAVARRO wrote:

 ced1106 wrote:

Billicus wrote:
Is the comparison to VAT anything other than off topic copium? You have sales tax in the US already.

No. When CMON started charging VAT to backers, internationals were VERY upset, similar to how us yanks are reacting to tariffs.

What other taxes do internationals pay? We also have state tax in the USA, and sometimes shipping fees are an explicit additional cost, though not as often as the mail catalog days.

Should also mention, though, that, from 2020 to 2024, we had some serious inflation b/c of shipping instability, govt spending, sudden increase in rates after midterm elections, etc. What cost $4 in the USA in 2020 cost $5 in 2024. And that affected EVERYTHING. Despite the publicity over tariffs, in the USA, the majority of spending is in the service industry, which has no tariff, "just" inflation.

Is there VAT tax in the USA?

The State tax, County Tax, Transportation tax, if you buy online, the Fed tax on the stuff you sell and pay for- in addition to any other of the four or five taxes, depending on who's got thier hand out... kind count. You see Fee Bey? they make you pay taxes on your own items you sell, or buy. as an example... You guys over the Pond have Boot Sales, Over here they try to make you pay a tax on them, as well.... "Extra Income" they claim.

Not getting into Politics, but there are a rat bunch of "You Know What's" with a hand out.

As a side Question, Doesn't GW produce in the factory in the States? I though Tennessee had a factory, after the Glenn Burnie Debacle?
Asking for a friend...

Important to note, things like VAT are calculated based on what you the consumer pays, while the God Emperor's tariffs are calculated off what the guy who made it paid.

Taxation is theft of course, but tariffs are often absorbed by the seller because of Pricing 101, and even if they aren't, they're nothing special when we're already paying sales tax. A 20% VAT on $100 purchase is $20, a 20% tariff is like $3.

 Grot 6 wrote:
As a side Question, Doesn't GW produce in the factory in the States? I though Tennessee had a factory, after the Glenn Burnie Debacle?
Asking for a friend...

They used to. Their metal production was shut down some time before the introduction of 'Fine'cast, and their plastics shut down a few years ago (although that's possibly a 'few' in the same way as the '90s were a decade ago... I don't recall the exact timescale.)

These days most stuff is produced in the UK, with some terrain, vehicles and printing done in China.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 frankelee wrote:
Important to note, things like VAT are calculated based on what you the consumer pays, while the God Emperor's tariffs are calculated off what the guy who made it paid.

Taxation is theft of course, but tariffs are often absorbed by the seller because of Pricing 101, and even if they aren't, they're nothing special when we're already paying sales tax. A 20% VAT on $100 purchase is $20, a 20% tariff is like $3.

Tariffs are calculated on the value of the product as it comes into the country, not the manufacturing cost. If you're buying direct from overseas, you pay the tariff.

 frankelee wrote:

Taxation is theft of course, but tariffs are often absorbed by the seller because of Pricing 101

Really? Hundreds of years of economic data seems to suggest otherwise?

Honestly, for those of us sitting on a mountain of sprue guilt, the end of the de minimis import exemption feels more like a potential drag on time than on money. I've got enough boxed shame to keep me busy for years, so I’m not sweating the cost angle as much. GW stuff is already priced like it’s handcrafted by celestial artisans, and I mostly stick to launch boxes when I do pick up new kits.

But I am concerned about what this means for shipping and customs delays. A lot of the niche hobby gear, third-party bits, and boutique terrain still come from overseas, and if every package is now flagged for duty, we might be looking at a slowdown on par with post-Brexit UK deliveries. I know GW has the Memphis warehouse, so their logistics likely won't take much of a hit—but resin add-ons or specialty stuff from the EU and Asia might start getting stuck in customs longer than we'd like.

Feels like the real cost might be measured in patience.

> ]For the yanks in the audience, has the ending of de Minis for China been felt/noticed in America? Did it make any difference? Just trying to see what the effect was and wondering if it will be the same for others now.

Anecdotally, I've noticed with crowdfunding, any spike in shipping prices have lowered demand and the number of creators. Yet, at the same time, crowdfunding projects with miniatures are *still* over a hundred dollars per backer, and it's not hard to find a crowdfunding project by a newish company that wants you to drop $200+ on an all-in. Us whales seem to be rather resilient.

Dwarven Forge is something of an outlier, in that the company is very well known and has a small loyal audience, but I'm still seeing an average of $1350 per backer BEFORE shipping and tariffs.
https://gamefound.com/en/projects/dwarven-forge/cities-reforged

With VAT, creators were absorbing costs until they couldn't, with CMON, a large and well known miniatures with free boardgame one of the first creators to start explicitly charging VAT. This is currently happening with tariffs, and different creators will absorb different amounts of cost. CMON has left crowdfunding for now (good riddance). Also, not hard to find small companies with years of mismanagement on LeadAdventure closing their doors citing tariffs (won't miss you, RAFM). While inflation is always in the background, I've yet to see any specific complaints about it.

So, to summarize what backers have complained about with shipping:
* VAT: Internationals.
* Covid. Includes price spike when pent-up demand for shipping returned after covid became less of a worldwide issue.
* Tariffs: Yanks.

*****

Meanwhile, on Amazon, I can't find the price hikes I was expecting. I'm still buying good $20 games that I'll never get around to playing and BoardGameOracle has *pages* of price drops to wade through. For groceries, maybe one or two items noticeably bumped up in price, but I'm not seeing an overall increase. Heck, last month, I found a megatank printer (Canon PIXMA G6020) for $185, 20% *below* its usual price fo $215.

Amazon even has a Temu compeitor, Amazon Haul, which has cheap stuff, though dunno how cheap relative to Temu. Great for boardgame storage. I HIGHLY suggest this token storage, btw : https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F63JYPJB?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_amznbzr_ppx_yo_asin_title&s=bazaar

How long will retailers absorb costs? Who knows.

I think it's import to remember that tariff fluctuations are like currency fluctuations. Prices on the things that are currently in stock are likely to remain where they are. Prices are going to change when the restock order gets put in, and the retailer finds out what the actual rate is (no one wants to predict if a late night fever dream or "negotiation" is going to change the rates).

It's sad, one of the places I really liked to order from posted an announcement that they were changing their shipping methods essentially because they didn't want to have to do the tariff fees/paperwork on their end. Because what a customer really wants to do is deal with a fees-due package. :(

 solkan wrote:

It's sad, one of the places I really liked to order from posted an announcement that they were changing their shipping methods essentially because they didn't want to have to do the tariff fees/paperwork on their end. Because what a customer really wants to do is deal with a fees-due package. :(

It has never been the seller's responsibility to sort out the relevant import fees for the customer's country. That adds unrealistic levels of complexity to running a business for the sake of something that is ultimately nothing whatsoever to do with that business.

Yep a good few smaller stores in the UK stopped trading with the EU either outright or for a long time; taking a huge hit to their income, but also because they didn't know how/want too deal with all the additional layers of red tape and paperwork.

For big firms its a cost, but they can at least spread that workload out within a larger team or just hire someone to do that job who knows what they are doing (or can be trained up).

Smaller "one man band" firms can end up stuck because they can't afford to hire someone and if they have to do extra paperwork that means they lose real time on production; design; packing and other aspects of the business that have to keep going.

There's also a greater risk that they end up doing things wrong; getting fined; paying more (or their customers paying more) than they need too and so on because they don't fully understand the process and don't have time to learn to understand it alongside everything else that they've got to do .

What you're doing sounds like standard investment practice to me. If you really want to be a contrarian investor, buy high and sell low.

Personally I found RAFM's line to be very uneven in quality, rarely reaching the heights of, say, Grenadier miniature sculpts. However, RAFM did give us the Reptiliads, and with them, the War Turtle. For that I'll remember them fondly.

 insaniak wrote:

 solkan wrote:

It's sad, one of the places I really liked to order from posted an announcement that they were changing their shipping methods essentially because they didn't want to have to do the tariff fees/paperwork on their end. Because what a customer really wants to do is deal with a fees-due package. :(

It has never been the seller's responsibility to sort out the relevant import fees for the customer's country. That adds unrealistic levels of complexity to running a business for the sake of something that is ultimately nothing whatsoever to do with that business.

I don't necessarily disagree - each country has its own labyrinth of rules, and expecting sellers to navigate that for every customer would be chaos, especially for small businesses. That said, in today’s globalized market, the customer experience is increasingly shaped by how seamless international purchases feel.

While sellers aren't legally obligated to handle import fees, some do offer DDP (Delivered Duty Paid) services or transparent estimates at checkout—not because it’s their “job,” but because reducing friction can turn one-time buyers into loyal customers. It’s not about taking on every country’s customs paperwork—it’s about building trust by minimizing surprise charges.

So yeah, complexity is real—but businesses that acknowledge it and give buyers a heads-up are often the ones people remember and recommend. Pretty big risk to completely black out an entire country of consumers because "its not the seller's responsibility".

I'm not sure who you think I'm singling out, here. This isn't something specific to this current situation... It's just the way international shopping has always worked.

Yes, there are some shipping options these days that handle it all so the customer doesn't have to... But from what I've seen, they tend to be expensive (as they should be, since they're doing more than just shipping the parcel). That should be seen as a handy extra when it's offered, rather than an expectation.

How does this affect small one-person operations?

I buy 3d printed stuff from Poland and you'd never know it came from a company. Should I expect a price increase?

You're absolutely right that international shopping has always worked this way—tariffs, customs fees, and VAT have historically fallen on the customer to navigate. It's not really about singling anyone out; it's more that expectations around transparency have evolved alongside the rise of global e-commerce.

I think what’s shifting lately is less about assigning “responsibility” and more about improving the buyer experience. When some platforms and shipping services bake in the full cost upfront, even if it's pricier, it spares customers the hassle and surprise. For niche hobbyists or those ordering one-offs internationally, that clarity can be a game-changer—even if it’s still an optional extra.

In that sense, it’s not about turning every seller into a customs broker. It’s just that as more people encounter unpredictable duties and delays, they're realizing that convenience often outweighs savings. So when someone offers end-to-end solutions, it does set a new bar—not as a demand, but as a perk that's hard to ignore once you've experienced it.

 Overread wrote:
Smaller "one man band" firms can end up stuck because they can't afford to hire someone and if they have to do extra paperwork that means they lose real time on production; design; packing and other aspects of the business that have to keep going.

Just wanted to add that even major players in hobby industries face these problems as well. Reaper Miniatures said the paperwork caused them to ship to no more than one country *per day* regardless of the number of packages, making USA much more cost effective than various other international companies. I remember when Steve Jackson Games and other KS creators specifically said internationals were excluded from their KS. This was pre-GameFound, so may have been during one of the shipping crises. A backer who worked in shipping even mentioned that shipping prices were changing *every hour* during the aftermath of the Covid pandemic.

What else... States wanted a piece of that juicy internet commerce, so each of them imposed a separate state tax. Amazon eventually charged state sales tax, in 2017, meaning that the "little guy" now had to keep track of *fifty* different sales tax figures. How companies, customs, carriers, and consumers will deal with the added paperwork of tariffs won't be any better. I already know of a crowdfunding backer who was under the present de minimus being charge for it by UPS : https://www.facebook.com/groups/2418164861823205

Ahtman wrote:Looks like I won't be preordering that Tomy Takara Macross Genesis Climber Mospeada Legios after all.

well partial good news there. so long as you aren't hung up on the branding, it's been recently announced that said product is going to be released in the US under the Robotech branding by Harmony Gold related sellers. whether that will end up cheaper than paying shipping and tariff for direct purchase from japan is unknown.

Lathe Biosas wrote:How does this affect small one-person operations?
I buy 3d printed stuff from Poland and you'd never know it came from a company. Should I expect a price increase?

Depends on how they ship this and how well customs controls it.
Tariffs aren't new, and if I buy hobby content in the US I have to pay import tariffs and additional fees depending if everything is correctly labeled (using the wrong label or not filling out the forms was the main issue for small companies when UK left the EU) in addition to sales tax/import tax
So everything of "low" value from private sellers is send as "gift" to avoid problems, not sure if this is going to work the other way around with stuff send to the US as I don't know how strict controls are going to be in future

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 frankelee wrote:
but tariffs are often absorbed by the seller because of Pricing 101

Really? Hundreds of years of economic data seems to suggest otherwise?

this really depends on if we are talking about company import or private ones
if a company imports their stock to sell it there, they often absorb the tariffs as it is a lower value anyway (because the imported item without margin and taxes costs less) to keep the price competitive to local made goods or undercut them
if a private person buys directly from outside, the tariffs are just added on top
I can buy a Playstation in my country or the US both having a similar sticker price (depending on current conversion rates), but going to pay tariffs and import taxes on top if it comes from outside EU.

For the Hobby, GW will use it as a reason to add the full % (whatever the number will be) to the final price, no matter if they had to pay extra on import or not because people will just say its the tariffs and carry on

This is also a huge blow to eBay...and pretty much kills my selling there. As a Canadian almost all of my sales were to Americans. No one is going to pay $10-20 paperwork fees on a $5 eBay purchase (more than once).