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It seems like there used to be fewer "pure" options for one chaos god or another. So having mixed armies of different units from each might have been more normal, but now it feels like many more chaos lists are just pure one god or legion.

But I do wonder like... are mixed armies still possible?
Could you have night lords and Iron warriors and Word bearers units mixed in the same army? Death guard and black legion?
Is the chaos tapas possible?

   
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Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





You can mix all of the non-Cult legions as you wish, as they all share the same codex and would just be paint Jobs.
Allying other Codizes gets a little more complicated, but I think at least daemons have an undivided Index which you can look up.
Usually there's little gained in allies these days.
   
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Somewhere in Canada

9th edition's Chaos Undivided rules from the Nachmund campaign books are somewhat adaptable, but as Sgt. Cortex points out, since army flavour is no longer a product of subfaction but rather, detachment, there's no real point to allies. They literally are just a paint job; all of their battlefield behaviour is a product of detachment.

   
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Its kinda funny that chaos is less... chaotic now, and more... organized into nice little factions based on legions/gods

   
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If you're referring to JUST the 9 Traitor Legions, then the five Undivided Legions are all represented by Codex: CSM. While certain detachments are clearly flavored in the style of certain Legions, you're free to mix and match (which I'll be doing soon as I'm revising the theme of my CSM force).

The other four - Thousand Sons, World Eaters, Death Guard, and Emperor's Children - each have their own dedicated codex.

Currently, the only allies rules between the legions are that an army built from Codex: CSM can include Rubric Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines, and Noise Marines. No other dedicated units or characters can be included.

Codex: CSM can also ally in Daemons and/or Chaos Knights. In theory, points permitting, you can field an army that includes units from SEVEN different codices*.

Sadly, the four devoted Legions have rather restrictive rules regarding Daemons.

Chaos Knights can also take Daemon allies, and their Grotmas detachment allows cultists, too.

So, there are definitely options for Chaos mingling shenanigans!

*Daemons don't have - and aren't getting - a Codex; they're stuck in Index mode.

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What about Cypher and the Fallen? Are they still a thing?

 BorderCountess wrote:
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 Lathe Biosas wrote:
What about Cypher and the Fallen? Are they still a thing?


Yeah, Cypher is still around in the CSM Codex.
   
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 LunarSol wrote:
 Lathe Biosas wrote:
What about Cypher and the Fallen? Are they still a thing?


Yeah, Cypher is still around in the CSM Codex.


Never seen him (or the fallen) used in 10th edition games.

Is there a reason why, or is he popular elsewhere?

 BorderCountess wrote:
Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...

 
   
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 Lathe Biosas wrote:
 LunarSol wrote:
 Lathe Biosas wrote:
What about Cypher and the Fallen? Are they still a thing?


Yeah, Cypher is still around in the CSM Codex.


Never seen him (or the fallen) used in 10th edition games.

Is there a reason why, or is he popular elsewhere?


I don't think Fallen are a thing anymore. They're just a way you can model up your spikey marines. Chaos is the faction I'm least familiar with though, so I might be forgetting something.

Cypher is very popular though. He's in pretty much every winning CSM list as a relatively cheap Lone Op character with CP tax bubble that can run around and score objectives and be a general nuisance.
   
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Fallen are gone, yes. However, Cypher still has the Fallen keyword, even though I think it only matters for a couple of Dark Angels Crusade rules (one agenda and one Crusade Relic).

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"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln

Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.


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BanjoJohn wrote:
Its kinda funny that chaos is less... chaotic now, and more... organized into nice little factions based on legions/gods


Thing is you dip into the lore and its always been this way. Combined Arms Chaos armies are supposed to be insanely rare, even more so to have all four gods on the table at once. That's one of the rarest of the rare. Inside the Warp they all fight each other all the time as they battle for power over each other in the Great Game.

It's more that GW is now splintering Chaos from 1 army of Demons into 4 armies of specific god followers. In theory its a good thing because it means that they can go deeper on options for just one Chaos God and create new things because now they aren't tripping over each other. Heck if GW follow through on their general current policy of fully separating model lines between game systems I'd fully expect to see a whole new wave of demon models for either AoS or 40K or even both as they fully separate the lines. Heck if GW really go far maybe we'll even see new Greater Demon models for each game.

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 BorderCountess wrote:
Fallen are gone, yes. However, Cypher still has the Fallen keyword, even though I think it only matters for a couple of Dark Angels Crusade rules (one agenda and one Crusade Relic).


Can Cypher be taken in an imperial guard army? Or was his 3rd edition status of being able to be taken in chaos armies and imperial guard armies an anomaly?

   
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BanjoJohn wrote:
 BorderCountess wrote:
Fallen are gone, yes. However, Cypher still has the Fallen keyword, even though I think it only matters for a couple of Dark Angels Crusade rules (one agenda and one Crusade Relic).


Can Cypher be taken in an imperial guard army? Or was his 3rd edition status of being able to be taken in chaos armies and imperial guard armies an anomaly?
He cannot. CSM only these days.

Edit: I'd also be careful about houseruling him into an IG list. A T4 W5 3+/4++ Lone Operative is a really handy model to have for only 90 points.

Not saying don't do it, just saying that if you do, make absolutely sure your opponents are chill with it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/08/14 01:01:34


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 JNAProductions wrote:
BanjoJohn wrote:
 BorderCountess wrote:
Fallen are gone, yes. However, Cypher still has the Fallen keyword, even though I think it only matters for a couple of Dark Angels Crusade rules (one agenda and one Crusade Relic).


Can Cypher be taken in an imperial guard army? Or was his 3rd edition status of being able to be taken in chaos armies and imperial guard armies an anomaly?
He cannot. CSM only these days.

Edit: I'd also be careful about houseruling him into an IG list. A T4 W5 3+/4++ Lone Operative is a really handy model to have for only 90 points.

Not saying don't do it, just saying that if you do, make absolutely sure your opponents are chill with it.


Indeed. Part of me would think it would be cool if Cypher and a squad of "fallen marines" could be included in IG, tau, eldar, and squat armies.
But I understand that things may not really be built around that kind of flexibility these days.

   
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He'd be pretty cool as a Combat Patrol or Kill Team.

 BorderCountess wrote:
Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...

 
   
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BanjoJohn wrote:

Indeed. Part of me would think it would be cool if Cypher and a squad of "fallen marines" could be included in IG, tau, eldar, and squat armies.
But I understand that things may not really be built around that kind of flexibility these days.


I'd let you get away with almost anything in Crusade if you write a good background story that ties into the campaign. But tying it into a campaign isn't always easy.

I always wanted to see more made of Cypher and the Fallen, and I thought the return of the Lion gave them a lot of room to do something spectacular. I remember a White Dwarf Fallen index article... I think from 9th. It came with an excellent gallery of models which had no rules since the index was a phoned in piece of garbage with Zero unit variety.

I am not a Marine guy... But I really liked Cypher.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2025/08/14 03:29:37


 
   
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 Overread wrote:
BanjoJohn wrote:
Its kinda funny that chaos is less... chaotic now, and more... organized into nice little factions based on legions/gods


Thing is you dip into the lore and its always been this way. Combined Arms Chaos armies are supposed to be insanely rare, even more so to have all four gods on the table at once. That's one of the rarest of the rare. Inside the Warp they all fight each other all the time as they battle for power over each other in the Great Game.
That may be recent lore, but I don't think that's old lore. Chaos bands coming together despite differences in order to go on some mission of opportunity or united under a charismatic Lord wasn't an uncommon depiction iirc.

Besides, speaking of rare. . . Those Primarchs and named Chapter Masters etc. seem to show up an awful lot . . .

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 PenitentJake wrote:
BanjoJohn wrote:

Indeed. Part of me would think it would be cool if Cypher and a squad of "fallen marines" could be included in IG, tau, eldar, and squat armies.
But I understand that things may not really be built around that kind of flexibility these days.


I'd let you get away with almost anything in Crusade...


Dark Angels on Crusade get their own Oathsworn campaign for hunting the Fallen. The third mission is to finally capture the Fallen in question. When played, the opponent actually gets to add a Heretic Astartes character to their army for free, regardless of their faction. The character gains the Fallen keyword if they don't already have it, gains Lone Operative, and can't lead units.

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"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln

Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.


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