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It seems like ever since Necrons got changed to Space Tomb Kings, they keep losing tomb world after tomb world and they are there only to get stomped as usual the "good guys" Imperium and Mechanicus or some other factors not related to the good guys. They're the most powerful race, FAX (as in facts), yet they get slapped around like a looney tune character. Previously while being one dimensional (not as much as one dimensional as Angron and the WE) they were ancient robotic lovefractian horror machinery that need to cleans life anew and claim those souls=feed them to their C'tan, death incarnate where the C'tan engineered the gene seed into humanity (blanks) and later to harvest them as Pariahs.
They broke their gods in the new lore and use them as poke balls, however meanwhile they get stomped by Dracula Chapter Master of the BA because he and his company went into rage mode after encountering a BL warband on the tomb world of Scarab. I'm no longer surprised if we get a bald head commander who will "choke" a necron to death just like Fulgrim choked the Avatar of Khaine.
Necrons, Eldar, Orks, T'au, Squats, Tyranids, Dark Eldar, and especially Chaos, are the ones who keep the lore interesting, but getting slapped around by a no helmet commander with his company absolutely makes no sense in these past years. I would make a wall of text, but I'd rather express my frustration through short sarcasm, heck there are better fan stories of the HH doing it justice than what we got over the years as an example. Too much favoritism for the SM, IG and Mechanicum while the others have basically been left out.
Honestly? I’d love to see GW pull an End Times-style narrative swerve where the Silent King finally stops brooding and starts bulldozing. Give us a galaxy where the Xenos aren’t just exotic speedbumps for the Imperium’s latest Primaris power fantasy. Let the Necrons reclaim their tomb worlds, the Eldar stop dying in slow motion, and the Orks do more than shout WAAAGH! before getting vaporized by plot armor.
Space Marines as underdogs? Yes please. Imagine the drama—no more infinite reinforcements, no more “somehow Guilliman(inject primarch retcon) returned.” Just a fractured Imperium clinging to scraps while the galaxy’s true apex predators (Necrons, Tyranids, Chaos, etc.) carve up the stars like a buffet. The Silent King vs. the Emperor’s corpse in a final showdown? Inject that into my cortex.
The galaxy’s richest factions are being written like Saturday morning villains. Give us stakes. Give us consequences. Give us a galaxy where the Xenos aren’t just set dressing for the Imperium’s next heroic flex.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/08/23 22:32:09
The Necrons are arguably the most potent non-Chaos threat in the setting rn. The Pariah Nexus is an apocalyptic level threat to the Imperium should it expand. I think you’re just letting bias color your interpretation of the fluff.
The thing about 40k is that no one person can grasp the fullness of it.
The Imperium is the reigning power in the galaxy, they are going to win a tonne of conflicts. Retreat being shameful means any Space Marines chapters in conflicts almost have to be killed off before you can let the Xenos/Chaos win, we already lost what 2 Craftworlds from timeline progression. Fights between other factions creates more opportunities for everyone to shine at times, although having the most regular human faction being involved in a conflict does give one a more relatable view into what is going on.
The whole unbeatable sleeping C'thulu robots was repetitive and could not work in a setting that is slowly advancing rather than completely standing still.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/08/24 04:44:13
The Necrons are arguably the most potent non-Chaos threat in the setting rn. The Pariah Nexus is an apocalyptic level threat to the Imperium should it expand. I think you’re just letting bias color your interpretation of the fluff.
The Pariah Nexus is a good example of how Imperial plot armour and Necron anti-plot armour warp the narrative around how powerful the Necrons 'should' be.
Faith is magic so it can overcome the null field
The Imperial fleet is on its own, but they have a seemingly unlimited amount of manpower
The Necrons have total naval supremcy, but don't annihilate the Imperial fleet when it arrives
The incredibly tired plot of the Necrons backstabbing each other allowing their enemies to take advantage is present yet again
How come the Nexus requires so much Blackstone architecture for seemingly so little gain compared to networks like Cadia?
The Nexus is a named hero magnet, with seven (that I can remember off the top of my head) special characters present currently
Necrons are extremely prone to losing because the plot says that they should, and therefore they're incompetent morons and/or the basics of the setting work differently to facilitate the heroes defeating them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/08/24 06:40:36
The Necrons are arguably the most potent non-Chaos threat in the setting rn. The Pariah Nexus is an apocalyptic level threat to the Imperium should it expand. I think you’re just letting bias color your interpretation of the fluff.
Fair point on the Pariah Nexus—it should be an existential threat. But that’s kind of the issue, isn’t it? The Necrons are written like they could end the galaxy in a weekend, yet they keep getting narratively kneecapped so the Imperium can flex its plot armor. The Silent King’s return was hyped as a galactic game-changer, but what did we get? A few cool datasheets and then back to getting dunked on by rage-mode Marines.
It’s not that the Necrons aren’t powerful in theory—it’s that the execution keeps undercutting that power. They’re ancient, terrifying, and tactically brilliant, but they’re treated like Saturday morning villains who monologue and then lose to the protagonist’s friendship power. The Pariah Nexus should be the Imperium’s worst nightmare, not a backdrop for another heroic last stand where a bald commander punches a Lychguard into scrap.
I have to admit I'm not up to date with the lore. But only recently reading the Ciaphas Cain novels, the Necrons were described pretty much as inevitable. It boiled down to "if you see something greenish in the deeper vaults, run, evacuate, call the Navy and glass the planet and MAYBE, only MAYBE, you might see the next day... If you are lucky enough they are sleeping.
He also mentions that there are so few reports of Necrons because they barely ever leave survivors. So as mentioned I'm not up to date, but if we take this as sign, that the only survivors of Necron encounters are from ecnounters were the imperials were so blatantly superior (because the Necrons were outnumbered, damaged, sleepy from stasis or whatever), that it was one of their few victories while no one ever survived to report the more equal matches, that might go away to explain the mismatch.
Then again, I assume there are enough SM novels and stories were they are just so awesome that they beat the Necrons no matter what.
edit: I also note that in the Ciaphas Cain novels "successfully disengaged and fled" is counted as a perfectly good win against the Necrons, which is what it would be if they are as powerful as they seem to be from their lore
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/08/24 12:37:47
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vict0988 wrote: The Imperium is the reigning power in the galaxy, they are going to win a tonne of conflicts. Retreat being shameful means any Space Marines chapters in conflicts almost have to be killed off before you can let the Xenos/Chaos win, we already lost what 2 Craftworlds from timeline progression. Fights between other factions creates more opportunities for everyone to shine at times, although having the most regular human faction being involved in a conflict does give one a more relatable view into what is going on.
The whole unbeatable sleeping C'thulu robots was repetitive and could not work in a setting that is slowly advancing rather than completely standing still.
Yeah...
I'm very much against Marine uber alles. But the salt seems to be that the Imperium wins any battles. Clearly it must do, otherwise it would have been wiped out.
But then I kind of think Necrons exist in this strange place.
For their advocates, they are the most powerful faction in the galaxy, and when they wake up they'll squash everyone.
A lot of the rest of us however just respond with "nah? They just aren't". All the overpowered crap that makes it through a codex will slowly be pruned from the lore because its stupid.
You can't really bridge that gap. But to my mind Necrons are no more important to the setting, or relatively more powerful, than Tyranids, Orks, Chaos etc.
I feel Newcron-lore hasn't treated Necrons nicely in that they just don't feel very important or strong anymore. They are just another empire that wants to rebuild its former glory, just like the Imperium and craftworld eldar. And just like generic eldar farseers or generic imperial governeurs a generic necron overlord that's not the protagonist of the story will do stupid things and won't really pose a thread for heromarines.
Pyroalchi wrote: I have to admit I'm not up to date with the lore. But only recently reading the Ciaphas Cain novels, the Necrons were described pretty much as inevitable. It boiled down to "if you see something greenish in the deeper vaults, run, evacuate, call the Navy and glass the planet and MAYBE, only MAYBE, you might see the next day... If you are lucky enough they are sleeping.
He also mentions that there are so few reports of Necrons because they barely ever leave survivors. So as mentioned I'm not up to date, but if we take this as sign, that the only survivors of Necron encounters are from ecnounters were the imperials were so blatantly superior (because the Necrons were outnumbered, damaged, sleepy from stasis or whatever), that it was one of their few victories while no one ever survived to report the more equal matches, that might go away to explain the mismatch.
Then again, I assume there are enough SM novels and stories were they are just so awesome that they beat the Necrons no matter what.
edit: I also note that in the Ciaphas Cain novels "successfully disengaged and fled" is counted as a perfectly good win against the Necrons, which is what it would be if they are as powerful as they seem to be from their lore
That novel was written before the retcon, when necrons were still horror themed than He-Man themed.
The Necrons from then are not the same as the ones we have now.
What I have
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Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
They are all Galactic level threats to the Imperium of Man.
The problem is that if any of them is allowed to steamroller the setting, aka the Imperium and their Space Marine poster boys, you have no setting. Therefore we get plot armor and incompetent commanders to keep hope and the Imperium alive. Nobody wants to play the faction that always loses.
They are all Galactic level threats to the Imperium of Man.
The problem is that if any of them is allowed to steamroller the setting, aka the Imperium and their Space Marine poster boys, you have no setting. Therefore we get plot armor and incompetent commanders to keep hope and the Imperium alive. Nobody wants to play the faction that always loses.
GsC always lose. They either die in battle or live long enough to die by the inevitable Tyranid invaders.
BorderCountess wrote: Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
Sgt. Cortez wrote: I feel Newcron-lore hasn't treated Necrons nicely in that they just don't feel very important or strong anymore. They are just another empire that wants to rebuild its former glory, just like the Imperium and craftworld eldar. And just like generic eldar farseers or generic imperial governeurs a generic necron overlord that's not the protagonist of the story will do stupid things and won't really pose a thread for heromarines.
Eldar has fallen, the Imperium are falling, the Necrons are rising. Totally different narrative. Compared to Tyranids are an unstoppable unknowable threat, Chaos is an unstoppable unknowable threat, Necrons are an unstoppable unknowable threat. You can only have so many Lovecraftian factions in a game. Imagine giving Orks an Old One mastermind, suddenly they just become so much more like Chaos and Tyranids.
Is leaning on the mystery cool? Yes but it only works to a point, you can only see something the first time once, every time after that it is no longer the first time you see something new and mysterious, it is the return of something, that thing might be scary, but it will no longer be new and mysterious. If Necrons really leaned into the C'tan and were all about custom C'tan you might actually be able to do it better. Each C'tan would be a novel entity like an SCP entry backed up by soulless automatons. But once the Nightbringer has been encountered and survived or defeated, it cannot be unseen or undefeated. Wacky Egyptians are fun and can still be scary, often without even trying to be, which is even more fun.
They are all Galactic level threats to the Imperium of Man.
The problem is that if any of them is allowed to steamroller the setting, aka the Imperium and their Space Marine poster boys, you have no setting. Therefore we get plot armor and incompetent commanders to keep hope and the Imperium alive. Nobody wants to play the faction that always loses.
The cheap thing to do is to say they killed a fleet before the events of the story you're telling. The Imperium has endless boys, so them winning on the third try is nice, they did win eventually but they are still losing 2/3 battles. It is a problem in any novel or series, the main character cannot die, how do we keep the stakes high.
Sgt. Cortez wrote: I feel Newcron-lore hasn't treated Necrons nicely in that they just don't feel very important or strong anymore. They are just another empire that wants to rebuild its former glory, just like the Imperium and craftworld eldar. And just like generic eldar farseers or generic imperial governeurs a generic necron overlord that's not the protagonist of the story will do stupid things and won't really pose a thread for heromarines.
Eldar has fallen, the Imperium are falling, the Necrons are rising. Totally different narrative. Compared to Tyranids are an unstoppable unknowable threat, Chaos is an unstoppable unknowable threat, Necrons are an unstoppable unknowable threat. You can only have so many Lovecraftian factions in a game. Imagine giving Orks an Old One mastermind, suddenly they just become so much more like Chaos and Tyranids.
Is leaning on the mystery cool? Yes but it only works to a point, you can only see something the first time once, every time after that it is no longer the first time you see something new and mysterious, it is the return of something, that thing might be scary, but it will no longer be new and mysterious. If Necrons really leaned into the C'tan and were all about custom C'tan you might actually be able to do it better. Each C'tan would be a novel entity like an SCP entry backed up by soulless automatons. But once the Nightbringer has been encountered and survived or defeated, it cannot be unseen or undefeated. Wacky Egyptians are fun and can still be scary, often without even trying to be, which is even more fun.
They are all Galactic level threats to the Imperium of Man.
The problem is that if any of them is allowed to steamroller the setting, aka the Imperium and their Space Marine poster boys, you have no setting. Therefore we get plot armor and incompetent commanders to keep hope and the Imperium alive. Nobody wants to play the faction that always loses.
The cheap thing to do is to say they killed a fleet before the events of the story you're telling. The Imperium has endless boys, so them winning on the third try is nice, they did win eventually but they are still losing 2/3 battles. It is a problem in any novel or series, the main character cannot die, how do we keep the stakes high.
I'm not one to say "old necrons great, newcrons bad", I'd rather have aspects of both. You know, the Newcrons could still be scary and feel like they're an actual thread. Instead they're repeatedly presented as backstabbing maniac robots, totally undermining the feeling of robots waking up to destroy everything.
And I'm not sure the Necrons as an "empire rising" is really there for me. Instead what I'm seeing is mad robots waking up and shouting get off ma lawn! Aww, what's happened to my tomb worlds?!
Their empire might not have been eaten up by a god like the eldar, but it was eaten up by time.
IMO Necron suffer the same problem that the Cylons did in the later series of the Battlestar Galactica reboot.
They started out as a mysterious, seemingly overwhelming menace then as the writers made them prone to infighting and civil justice like the humans they stopped being interesting as a different thing.
IIRC when Primaris were new there was a campaign in which the Necron actually won, but then the novel of the events came out and the Marines won instead.
They are all Galactic level threats to the Imperium of Man.
The problem is that if any of them is allowed to steamroller the setting, aka the Imperium and their Space Marine poster boys, you have no setting. Therefore we get plot armor and incompetent commanders to keep hope and the Imperium alive. Nobody wants to play the faction that always loses.
Came here to say this, but you beat me to it. The problem with making any faction out to be a galaxy ending threat is that they must, necessarily, always lose any conflict where they try to actually end the galaxy. And when your galaxy ending threat is a mcguffiny doomsday device (as is often the case with 'crons), that leaves that much less wiggle room for significant small victories along the way.
So far, Leagues of Votan are a great example of not writing yourself into that sort of corner. You can write stories where you make keeping a promise (fulfilling an oath) or securing a pile of space rocks feel like it has weight, but you can also have your squat protagonists fail or succeed without either outcome reshaping the face of the galaxy. Queen of Knives is theoretically kind of high stakes ("control" of Commorragh and the lives of some named characters), but it's ultimately a relatively low stakes plot. If Lelith dethrones Vect, then that's going to shake things up a lot, but not remove drukhari from the faction list. If Lelith gets driven out of Commorragh permanently, that changes up her story significantly, but she also has Ynnari pals to fall back on.
The 40k plots where things go well for various xenos/chaos factions tend to be the ones with less galaxy-changing stakes. Night Lords can flip a giant bird to the imperium without ruining the imperium. The Mike Brooks orks can go on a series of more or less successful campaigns because they're just trying to achieve small-scale goals rather than trying to kill the emperor or whatever. The 'cron novel protagonists tend to... succeed? Ish? With their goals mostly being contained to their own personal interests/projects.
And to be honest, I think that's mostly true for imperial factions too. The Salamanders will never be allowed to assemble all of Vulkan's relics until GW is ready to sell a Vulkan model. The Blood Angels will never successfully cure the black rage/red thirst. The imperial guard will never reconquer the galaxy or whatever. But saving/conquering a single throwaway planet with some cool quirks? Sure, they can do that. Obtain a sample of DNA that might get to show up as an enhancement in a codex? Doable. Finding one of Vulkan's relics? Sure. Make it an upgrade for your tech priest.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
Jammer87 wrote: Honestly? I’d love to see GW pull an End Times-style narrative swerve where the Silent King finally stops brooding and starts bulldozing. Give us a galaxy where the Xenos aren’t just exotic speedbumps for the Imperium’s latest Primaris power fantasy. Let the Necrons reclaim their tomb worlds, the Eldar stop dying in slow motion, and the Orks do more than shout WAAAGH! before getting vaporized by plot armor.
Space Marines as underdogs? Yes please. Imagine the drama—no more infinite reinforcements, no more “somehow Guilliman(inject primarch retcon) returned.” Just a fractured Imperium clinging to scraps while the galaxy’s true apex predators (Necrons, Tyranids, Chaos, etc.) carve up the stars like a buffet. The Silent King vs. the Emperor’s corpse in a final showdown? Inject that into my cortex.
The galaxy’s richest factions are being written like Saturday morning villains. Give us stakes. Give us consequences. Give us a galaxy where the Xenos aren’t just set dressing for the Imperium’s next heroic flex.
The Necrons are arguably the most potent non-Chaos threat in the setting rn. The Pariah Nexus is an apocalyptic level threat to the Imperium should it expand. I think you’re just letting bias color your interpretation of the fluff.
Necrons are "threat" only in the eyes of the "good guys" and Chaos Gods as well. From the Necrons perspective they have the right to close off the Warp and cleanse all lesser species.
vict0988 wrote: The Imperium is the reigning power in the galaxy, they are going to win a tonne of conflicts. Retreat being shameful means any Space Marines chapters in conflicts almost have to be killed off before you can let the Xenos/Chaos win, we already lost what 2 Craftworlds from timeline progression. Fights between other factions creates more opportunities for everyone to shine at times, although having the most regular human faction being involved in a conflict does give one a more relatable view into what is going on.
The whole unbeatable sleeping C'thulu robots was repetitive and could not work in a setting that is slowly advancing rather than completely standing still.
The Imperium is a rotting carcass, a backwater of an Empire, having them kill everyone at the same time is nonsense.
The problem with the Necrons in the old Lore is that they were stagnant.
They didn't Do anything.
Every story was the same.
Some group of adventurers/scientists/explorers would ignore vague warnings from the Eldar and uncover a tomb complex.
Everything would glow green, the Necrons would wake up. There would be lots of screaming and killing and sometimes the Tomb world would reawaken and lots of people died...
And then. Nothing.
Until the formula repeated.
Heck, I remember when every Necron player went nuts when there was a blurb about Necron ships bombing Mars.
Because for the first time, the Necrons did something.
And then they went back to the cliche horror movie cycle.
BorderCountess wrote: Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
I generally prefer the old lore, but I am cool with Necron Lords being able to seize command of clusters and direct them. I just don't love it when the chaff have personality or agency. If they have any self awareness it should very much be of the "I have no mouth and must scream" kind of existential horror.
LunarSol wrote: I generally prefer the old lore, but I am cool with Necron Lords being able to seize command of clusters and direct them. I just don't love it when the chaff have personality or agency. If they have any self awareness it should very much be of the "I have no mouth and must scream" kind of existential horror.
I don't think the chaff do.
Warriors are almost entirely mindless.
Immortals have a faint brain, but are still slaved to Crypteks and Lords and such.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
They were building pylons on Medusa V and in the Cerberus Shroud.
They were destroying Blackstone Fortresses during the 13th Black Crusade.
The Deciever was messing with the Adeptus Mechanicus [on Naogeddon].
They were impersonating Inquisitors and cataloging the galaxy's lifeforms (and then exterminating them).
They were hunting for the Orphan World and the Culexus Temple.
They were raiding from Sanctuary 101 to Angelis and everywhere inbetween.
They were harvesting pariahs and gathering resources.
They were cultivating mortal followers, and inspiring cults.
They were feeding stars to C'tan.
To name a few off the top of my head.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/08/26 17:43:15
Lord Damocles wrote: They were building pylons on Medusa V and in the Cerberus Shroud.
They were destroying Blackstone Fortresses during the 13th Black Crusade.
The Deciever was messing with the Adeptus Mechanicus [on Naogeddon].
They were impersonating Inquisitors and cataloging the galaxy's lifeforms (and then exterminating them).
They were hunting for the Orphan World and the Culexus Temple.
They were raiding from Sanctuary 101 to Angelis and everywhere inbetween.
They were harvesting pariahs and gathering resources.
To name a few off the top of my head.
Neat. Thank you.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
~7510 build and painted
1312 build and painted
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