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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2025/09/04 22:17:34
Subject: Necrons are the new Avatar of Khaine.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Imperial players should have to deal with being left out of campaigns like every other faction does.
It just further devalues investment in anything non imperial if you don't.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/09/04 22:24:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2025/09/04 22:31:58
Subject: Necrons are the new Avatar of Khaine.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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ccs wrote:
Well, since I don't play BFG, my dudes aren't disembarking from their ship(s), and we (almost) never play Boarding Actions.... I guess my cruise through the Gauntlet was uneventful?
Again: it's fine for you to choose to ignore the lore for sake of convenience- we all do it including me.
What's not okay is that claiming the effect of that lore isn't there and that this is somehow GW's fault, because that is not true. What is true is that GW created the lore, it does exist, it does have an impact on the game, but you are choosing to ignore that impact... Which, again, is perfectly fine, and acceptable, and everybody does it. But let's just be honest with each other that this is what is happening.
My campaign is set in Pacificus. I am choosing to ignore the Tyrannic War because it doesn't fit with everything else in the campaign. But you won't catch me pretending that GW didn't write TONS of stuff about the Tyrannic War's impact on Pacificus just because I am choosing not to use it in our campaign. On the other hand, our campaign WILL intersect with some of the characters from the Blackstone Fortress game (Taddeus, Pious, Gotfrett, Amallyn and maybe Raus and Rein), which is more lore that GW created which affects Pacificus, insofar as those characters had to pass through Pacificus to get to or from the BSF.
So I am picking and choosing which Lore impacts my campaign and which Lore doesn't, rather than claiming GW didn't give me anything to work with, or that what they did give me has no impact upon the in-game universe, because doing that would be a bald-faced lie.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2025/09/04 23:21:00
Subject: Necrons are the new Avatar of Khaine.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Orkeosaurus wrote:Breton wrote:Well the problem is all the Imperium Players can't participate. There's a reason the summer campaigns get the kitchen sink jokes.
That's why the Imperium needs to actually be paranoid, dysfunctional, and filled with people trying to advance their own agenda, to the point where hot conflict between Imperial factions is common. It was originally written that way for that reason, but over time that aspect of the Imperium devolved into mere rhetoric. When's the last time there was serious intra-Imperial warfare? Badab? Even that isn't a great example because one side was manipulated by Chaos, so unambiguously in the wrong. That's a terrible state of affairs when 30-40% of all real games are Imperials on both sides.
Somehow Dawn of War did this better than GW: space marines, sisters, and guard all existed as enemies on the same planet, each with their own reason to believe they were right and asserting "true" Imperial authority. That both fits the tone of the setting and facilitates the real games played. But GW always wants the fight to be caused by Chaos secret agents, and that's much less interesting.
Imperial vs Imperial should definitely be played up more, without one side being revealed as pawns of Chaos or Genestealer Cults or other non-Imperial faction. Make it more ambiguous. There is plenty of room for story with each Imperial sub-faction capable of portraying itself as a protagonist, especially in the cut off Imperium Nihilus. Inquisition factional differences can boil over for example. The Recongregationists see the need to sweep away the old and reform the system and promote new talent as the Imperium Nihilus falls into upheaval. The Amalatheans want to stick to the tried and true old methods rather than introduce more upheaval or risk promoting new untried people that might be incompetent. The Istvaanians play all sides off each other and fan the fires of conflict, reasoning that any crucible of conflict must be truly intense to truly test and temper the worthy. All view themselves as acting for the good of the Imperium.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2025/09/05 07:05:19
Subject: Necrons are the new Avatar of Khaine.
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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PenitentJake wrote:Breton wrote:
What we choose to use or not doesn't matter. Jim Bob down in Alabama has no idea what I choose to use or not. Henry Cavill in London has no idea what I choose to use or not. Everybody knows what GW chooses to use or not. And they choose to keep things status quo. Nobody is invading Terra any time soon. The last Craftworld is not dying any time soon. None of the majors are likely dying any time soon. To be honest, the only "changes" theyve made are to make it easier to explain how Chaos is roving around the Imerpium.
Perhaps I didn't express my self clearly enough. The Cicatrix Maledictum is a HUGE fluff deal.
It is? Why? Is there any possible way either the Black Library, or players following the zero official rules about this thing will be unable to cross it? Have you seen the list of "people" who were able to make it to Vigilus? I-5 in Los Angeles has more obstacles.
If you play a game of 40k, let's say you decide to set that game in Segmentum Tempestus. Excellent- it's your first game with your new army, and you decide where you are fighting. So you're in Tempestus, and you fight and you have a great game.
In your next game, you're playing someone whose army is based in Segmentum Obscurus. Prior to the Cicatrix Maledictum, no problem, because getting from Tempestus to Obscurus or vice versa wasn't a problem. But now, because of the Cicatrix Maledictum, the battle will only be possible if you cross through one of about five places in the entire galaxy where you can cross- probably Vigilus, which is the most publicized crossing point.
To make it easier to play against that opponent, you will probably take short cuts- you'll just ASSUME that either your opponent fought his way through the Nachmund gauntlet to get to you, or that you fought your way through to get to your opponent without ever playing a game to represent that fight. And that's fine- if that's what you've got to do in order to play the game against the guy that you want to play.
But you can't then complain that no lore exists which has made in important change to the galaxy; the lore DOES exist- they've been publishing that lore for three editions now- you're just ignoring it in order to facilitate playing a game against who you want when you want.
IF you were using the lore as written, you would tell your opponent in Obscurus something along the lines of:
We have 3 options if we want to play against each other according to lore:
1/ I fight my way through Nachmund. You and I will have a battle in Obscurus once I win my way through.
2/ You need to fight your way through the Gauntlet to get to me. Call me once you get through and we'll arrange a game.
3/ We both hate each other so much that we're trying to get to each other at the same time and we'll set our game in the Nachmund Gauntlet where our armies will bump into each other.
Why wouldn't I just tell my opponent - assuming my opponent cared - I had ALREADY fought my way through the Nachmund Gauntlet? It happens off-stage. Its a one-off game and nothing from the narrative transit through the Nachmund Gauntlet is going to have a lasting effect on my army list. Are all your battles in chronological order? How do you reconcile being in a planetary campaign for 3 months, but somehow lifting off-world, forgetting all of your Crusade abilities, fighting your battle, hustling back to the planet, remembering all your crusade abilities, and getting back to the exact same spot on the surface without having lost any turns in the campaign?
That sounds complicated perhaps, which is why most players don't bother. But that IS the way you have to do it if you are going to use the Lore that exists. If you choose not to, that's fine- obviously it has to be an option, otherwise it might get inconvenient to play whoever you want whenever you want. But if you make that choice, you can't complain the lore doesn't impact the galaxy, because YOU are the one who CHOSE for the lore not to affect the galaxy to make it convenience for you to play against someone, who wouldn't be able to get to you if you did play according to the Lore.
You're assuming most people set their battles anywhere, or anywhen.
Again - the Lore changes don't impact the game. Tycho died something like 8 editions before they quit making him a datasheet. There are no rules. The Lore doesn't even impact the Lore. A world important enough for Calgar to be in yet another place at the same time, while Abby also pulls a copy of himself off of Cadia wasn't important enough for either side to bring such an overwhelming armada to control the space over the planet, a bunch of Orks on a weekend bender can slip through with squiggoths and Stompas for a quick brawl? The last time I can remember the Lore really impacting the game is when the Nids ate the Squats. But now we have Votaan. So even that didn't really last. Automatically Appended Next Post: Hellebore wrote:Imperial players should have to deal with being left out of campaigns like every other faction does.
It just further devalues investment in anything non imperial if you don't.
Participation numbers on that Fallen vs Vespid campaign should be through the roof.
Imperials should be in the summer campaign. Which ones should rotate.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/09/05 07:08:13
My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2025/09/07 00:19:43
Subject: Re:Necrons are the new Avatar of Khaine.
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Confessor Of Sins
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Having the Imperium in campaigns is easy. They live in the battlefield the other factions are fighting over. GW just needs to stop playing them up as one of the main combatants rather than the sidelight.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2025/09/07 22:14:30
Subject: Re:Necrons are the new Avatar of Khaine.
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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alextroy wrote:Having the Imperium in campaigns is easy. They live in the battlefield the other factions are fighting over. GW just needs to stop playing them up as one of the main combatants rather than the sidelight.
Having SOME Imperium in any given campaign is easy. Dark Angels, Black Templar, Imperial Guard, Sisters and the like that are either space based or already stationed on every planet with at least an Exxon station. Likewise, its fairly easy to make any given world a Tomb world, or a location of some left over webway gates.
I didn't like having Calgar and the Ultramarines on Vigilus. I liked what they did once he was there, but he probably shouldn't have been (Or Vigilus should have been somewhere else).
I think they need to rotate chapters more often, especially some of the GW built chapters like the Blood Ravens. I think they need to rotate the Craftworlds a LITTLE more. I'd like it if they could figure out how to make the summer campaign two planets somehow linked together but with different participants to really rotate the rivalries/conflicts.
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My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2025/09/08 22:49:34
Subject: Necrons are the new Avatar of Khaine.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The only faction that should appear in every campaign is the orks. THEY are literally everywhere. The imperium is the eldar in population compared to the orks.
1000 dark angels have 0% chance of being in any particular battlefield because the galaxy is so absurdly large their size is so close to 0 it should be treated as such.
Every camapign should have ork freebootaz, ork Waaaghs or ork infested planets within its scope, at all times. That's not a shoehorn, it's just a statistical certainty.
The faction least likely to appear is probably the craftworlders, but a campaign can easily be described as a locus of fate, otherwise it wouldn't be written up in detail to begin with.
The Dark Eldar would probably have a higher chance of appearing than most other factions because warzones are perfect raiding grounds amidst the smoke and chaos. Sneaking into planets to steal the population while their military's are distracted.
The tau and nids are likely to be the next least likely, due to their size and localities.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/09/08 22:50:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2025/09/09 08:24:25
Subject: Re:Necrons are the new Avatar of Khaine.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Tyranids may be a lot more common, possibly becoming increasingly on par with Orks, given the recent stuff about Leviathan and the other hive fleets making more inroads and the Orks being defeated at Octarius (with the Tyranids there now spilling out). Also the Genestealer Cults seem to be ever more common like metastasizing cancer.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2025/09/10 04:08:17
Subject: Necrons are the new Avatar of Khaine.
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Fixture of Dakka
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I wonder if 'nids winning at Octarius will be sort of a self-solving problem. I've never been clear on just how close to starving a given hive fleet is by the time it reaches the next planet, but it's apparently close enough that denying tendrils a few planets can meaningfully hamper that fleet's progress.
A massive fleet coming out of Octarius means that planets will fall to the 'nids more easily, but also you have to split the pizza that many more directions.
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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