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While I would have described myself as a purist and a strict enforcer of 3 colors minimum or get it off the table a few years ago, noticed a few things.

Younger players tend to be the ones running the most proxies. Doesn't make sense to be chasing them away from the game, we will eventually run out of players that way.

Their motivations tend towards getting better models moreso than avoiding costs. I can appreciate a good model painted to a high standard whether it's 3D printed or not. OTOH, I see a lot of unpainted gray GW models but very few people fielding unpainted 3d printed models. Taking the time to make something worth looking at is a plus.

Most armies are not composed entirely of proxy models. It's a unit here and there. About a year ago, I saw a completely custom Tyranid army, where it was hard to make out what the units were. That's the exception, not the rule.

GW doesn't need me to be it's copyright enforcer. I'm not concerned about the company going under like I was under Kirby nor do I feel it's stealing when someone creates a 3D model that looks like it has a place in 40K. The appeal of the game has always been the creativity and cleverness of the people involved. If that creative energy comes from outside GW, so be it.

I want to also give my perspective. I started with Warhammer as it was the only system that was visible when I entered the hobby. Starting it at 10 meant that I could get a box of minatures for a b-day/xmas and maybe 1-2 during the year I saved up for. This was the same with my friends, so we played using what we could (I still remember playing warhammer fantasy by cutting out carboard rectangles and marking of casualties with a pencil).

I think this mentality stayed with me, and I think you should be able to play the game with alternative models and sculpts as in the end it is all happening in our imagination. I think this allows more people to enter the hobby, rather than preventing them from playing a game till they have 1000-2000 pts of official GW painted models.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Younger players tend to be the ones running the most proxies. Doesn't make sense to be chasing them away from the game, we will eventually run out of players that way.

Something I've been trying to instill in the local community is the idea that standards are something you need to build players up to. GT requirements might be important for the best experience in a GT setting. They might even provide the best exerience overall, but players need to grow into it. Just because a GT might not allow proxies doesn't mean there isn't value in letting them slide at an RTT and there really shouldn't be restrictions at the local game night. GT players might be able to finish games on time, but local events should have longer rounds and mostly be about getting players used to time restrictions in general.

People mean well with warnings that "this isn't allowed at conventions" but I think all too often people take it as more gate keeping than is really intended. Feeling like you need to abide by LVO standards when you have no plans of flying to Vegas often leaves people under a similar amount of scrutiny in casual games, which can often push them away entirely. Truth is only a handful of the local playerbase is interested in tournaments and only a couple of those players will travel to cons. Designing your requirements with that in mind is really important to long term community health.

When we play GW games, we tend to use GW models. However, there are some 3D printer fans who use printed parts but the base models are GW.

However, we play more than just GW games, so we have models for other games, designers, and manufacturers too.

 LunarSol wrote:

People mean well with warnings that "this isn't allowed at conventions" but I think all too often people take it as more gate keeping than is really intended. Feeling like you need to abide by LVO standards when you have no plans of flying to Vegas often leaves people under a similar amount of scrutiny in casual games, which can often push them away entirely. Truth is only a handful of the local playerbase is interested in tournaments and only a couple of those players will travel to cons. Designing your requirements with that in mind is really important to long term community health.

I have to say I feel this is a bit of social difference too. I tend to see this a lot more in US based fans over UK.

UK tend to be far more laid back at the hobby level.
Meanwhile the US seems to run a lot hotter at "following the rules as written". I feel like the UK never needed the "3 modes of play" commentary of narrative/matched play and open play. The last is just "do what you want" and we don't need a "rule" to tell us that; the first two are basically the same game with one having a story and one not and its kind of super hazy between the two - but again you didn't need a firm to set it out as a mode of play "rule".


Heck most clubs are happy that you just turn up to play and whilst each group will have different things that the group focuses on playing; most are open to other ideas and approaches (even if you have to be the one to put energy into promoting the idea)

SU-152 wrote:


My FLGS has so many games from so many companies on the shelves. Yet there are people that would never buy/play anything that is not GW.

That's what I meant, and this thread went in a utterly different direction.

Oh. Then yes, there are definitely people like that at my local shops.
Mostly - even within companies offering multiple games - its just a matter of lack of interest in another game/lack of time/lack of $ or space.
So they stick to just one game. For ex; 40k....

We've got people who ONLY play one of the following:
(Insert specific GW game _____)
Bolt Action
Marvel Crisis
Flames of War (often insert specific war - WWII, WWI, Team Yankee etc
Battletech
Etc etc etc

We also have a great many players who'll play multiple different games.

SU-152 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I mean, with 3rd party bits and models you also "put your money where your hobby is". My hobby is at GW. And Kromlech. And Archon. And Spellcrow. And ArtelW. And Wargame Exclusive. And...

Would you ever play/buy a non-GW game?

I see the thread has moved on bit I'll answer anyway .
Yes, of course! In fact, we don’t really use 40K GW rules anymore and now use our models in OPR. Which has also allowed me to throw in my GF9/Prodos Aliens as "Alien Hives"/tyranids, which would have been more difficult with actual tyranid codizes.

We also play Oathmark with a mix of Lotr minis, historicals, Warlord games, Fireforge, some WhFB minis and so on.

Stargrave is great to throw down anything you find on the shelve.

For Star Wars Armada we only use the proper Star Wars models, but since they stopped selling the official kits we moved to 3d printing stuff.

I'm also playing Star Trek Attack Wing. Unfortunately it's quite hard to find alternative minis for that game in a unified scale or at least in the scale I'm searching, but at least my Dominion models have been replaced by minis from some garage producer somewhere in the USA many years ago.