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Wonder what the points value comparisons are like. For accuracy you have to do a % of average game size at the time.

Ie 2nd ed had around 700pts of marines with the missle launchers and flamers. A 2nd ed game was normally 2000pts, so the box had about 33% of a marine army in it.

3rd ed had 10 marines and a land speeder which was around 220pts with special weapons.

At 1500pts a game, that's only about 16%.

 Hellebore wrote:
Wonder what the points value comparisons are like. For accuracy you have to do a % of average game size at the time.

Ie 2nd ed had around 700pts of marines with the missle launchers and flamers. A 2nd ed game was normally 2000pts, so the box had about 33% of a marine army in it.

2nd ed tourney rules had games at 1500. What were the point values in the bat-reps?

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
Wonder what the points value comparisons are like. For accuracy you have to do a % of average game size at the time.

Ie 2nd ed had around 700pts of marines with the missle launchers and flamers. A 2nd ed game was normally 2000pts, so the box had about 33% of a marine army in it.

2nd ed tourney rules had games at 1500. What were the point values in the bat-reps?

I want to say bat-reps were typically 2,000
which is also the sized games our group always played

I could be wrong about the bat-reps though, as it's been decades since I read those in WD.

trying to find the first 2nd edition battle rep I can, looking at white dwarf #207 (UK), space marines vs eldar.
There was one land speeder, a bike squad, a tactical squad, an assault squad
There was a swooping hawk exarch, a vyper, a jetbike squad, a swooping hawk squad, eldar scouts, a second vyper, and a second jetbike squad.

I don't know how many points that is, but it doesn't seem very big

White dwarf #205 (UK) has tyranids vs space wolves. Again they don't really list the points but:
Hive tyrant, carnifex, lictor, zoanthrope, 1 squad of warriors, 1 squad of genestealers, 2 squads of termagants, 1 squad of hormagaunts

Ragnar with wolf guard, 3 predators, iron priest, grey hunters with wolf guard

So... not big either.

So some rough math from the era appropriate codexes. While drinking, so there might be errors.

3rd:
Marines is a tac squad and a speeder. 231 points with visible warger. Not counting things like vet sarge upgrades, or grenades. Which could add another 45 points easy. But nobody took them on tac squads

20 Kabalite warriors might be 170? Not sure on their upgrades.

IIRC games were 1,500 points. so a long way to go for a full army.

4th:
Similar to the 3rd ed tac squad, a ML/F no gear sarge squad is 166 points, plus hidden upgrades.

I don’t have a nid book from 4th.

5th:
Marine side is about 595 points. I’m not sure if the standard had switched from 1,500 to 1,850 at this time, but still a solid core for an army.

No Ork book for this era.

6th, 7th. Don’t have a DA or Chaos codex Sorry.

8th:
Marine side is about 881 points. I forgot how weird army points were in this edition. Not in a bad way. You paid for the body, and then the gear they had. Some was free (included in the body cost) I think we were firmly in the 2k lists at this time. Still a solid core.

No DG book. Curse my loyalist nature.

9th:
I clock the marine half of this as an even 1,000 points.

10th:
Marines should be 925 points. Nids are 805.

So starting at 5th, we start seeing the starters being like 1/3rd to 1/2 of a full army. Which is not too shabby.

 Nevelon wrote:
8th:
Marine side is about 881 points. I forgot how weird army points were in this edition. Not in a bad way. You paid for the body, and then the gear they had. Some was free (included in the body cost)

Wasn't that how every edition until 10th operated?

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
8th:
Marine side is about 881 points. I forgot how weird army points were in this edition. Not in a bad way. You paid for the body, and then the gear they had. Some was free (included in the body cost)

Wasn't that how every edition until 10th operated?

Almost?

8th had an armory with the cost of everything. Most prior editions you would have upgrades on the unit entries. So there were times when a tac squad would pay less for a missile launcher then a dev squad. Plus there was no rebates. When you upgraded a sternguard to get a combi, you didn’t get any points back for the special ammo bolter you were replacing.

There have been subtle changes in how points were counted over the years.

Edit:
8th the unit entry would tell you what you could swap, but at the end of the day you looked at what it ended up with, and pay those points.

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
Wonder what the points value comparisons are like. For accuracy you have to do a % of average game size at the time.

Ie 2nd ed had around 700pts of marines with the missle launchers and flamers. A 2nd ed game was normally 2000pts, so the box had about 33% of a marine army in it.

2nd ed tourney rules had games at 1500. What were the point values in the bat-reps?

2000 pts is what I recall the books suggesting. I also remmbe the 3rd ed articles saying they'd changed the average game cost to 1500 from 2000. Memory could be faulty though.


For all the rise in cost gw have definitely made an effort to have the newer boxes be more like an army which is good. Basically it was middlehammer.they cheaped out on.