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Ok, the DA are nothing more then traitors. I think they should be turned to a chaos unit. In the 13th Crusade even they did not do much to help the Cadians in there struggle against Abbandon and his dark crusade. Atleast the Space Wolves showed up and help defend. Lets face it they are hunting there own. Why dont they just announce that they have some bad apples and let everyone else know about the need to help hunt the traitor DA down.Instead they keep it a secret. Whats that say about their Integrity. CAnt trust I say.I think they should make a new DA codex where they are offically CHAOS!! Yay.New rules for the army would be more sales. DA players would need to get the update. Everyone else would want one too so they can figure how to counter the DA players. It is a win win situation all around. So there i said my peace. All I ask is if you agree with me. Should the DA be consider Heritcs and kicked from imperium. I think it would make a great story line to the 40k universe.

 

 

http://www.geocities.com/huckapuc/deathronin.html

I agree with you Deathroin. I thought the Eye Of Terror campaign was great. But I did notcie that the Dark A. were not much help. As the EoT campaign went it gave a bit of what was happening once a week. And as I recall Lord Castellian mentioned the DA did not help. :mad: all they did was defend their little chunk of rock floating in space. I like your idea about making them all a total tratior unit. I never really cared for them much myself. But then again I do play with the Space Wolves. And the SW hate them, as is! SO i agree. destroy the evil doers of DA for they can not be trusted.

I dont agree with you at all. The Dark Angels characterize the Imperium perfectly. They are supposed to be holy but have dark secrets. I think the reason that the Dark Angels don't tell anyone about the Fallen is because of their honour. If they told anyone about that what would the rest of the Imperium think. The Dark Angels sitll worship the Emperor and want to get rid of the traitors who wear their colours. It's like if you have an affair and want to break it off without letting your wife know.

Well, Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes are independent organizations that come to battle only on their own terms. Not even an Inquisitor can order a unit of Space Marines around. So unless they are found guilty of some heresy, simply not showing up for most of the Black Crusade is their business and nobody else's.

As far as having secrets, welcome to the Imperium. Most organizations have their dirty laundry (even the Inquisition, whose job is supposed to cleaning up the laundry). If simply having skeletons in the closet was enough to be declared Excommunicate, the Imperium would cease to exist. Remember that the Lamenters Chapter actually fought -against- Imperial forces in the Badab Uprising and was granted the Emperor's Forgiveness.

Since they're essentially hunting traitors to the Emperor, they're not committing any heresy, whether they choose to involve others in it or not. So it really wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.

There are what, about a 1,000 chapters of Space Mrines out there? And not every one showed up to defend the BIGGEST Black Cursade in the last 10,000 years

so what about cypher? is he not the one with lion el's s-word? is he not a DA? how can he shoot with his eyes covered by his shroud? DA has traidors, BAs drink blood, SWs are dogs,BTs are child molesters err rloe modles toward the new guys....

I think your impression of what happened during the EOT is a little off base. If you review the BL EOT book written from a Cadian Generals point of view, you find the DA were pretty active. While they would not take orders from the Cadian High Command, they deployed forces all over the sector. They even mention a particular battle in which the DA and puppies fought side by side cheering each other on until the battle ended

I prefer the lesser known more correct version. 

The Fallen were actually  the loyal DA's.

The remainder were actually chaos, that didn't declare themselves while they read the tea leaves of who would win out.  When Horus bought it they sided with the Imperium and began persecuting "the Fallen" to keep the real secret hidden.

 

 

Let me set things straight. The DA are NOT Chaos. Saying that they are Chaos is simply bitterness and ignorance. What do they do? The devote all of their resources to hunting down Chaos. Sure it's a particular type of chaos, but who're you to judge?

The rumours of the DA sitting on the fence during the HH is just that, a rumour. It is indeed false, simply a heretic's ramblings. In fact, they were campaigning off in the Southern Fringe of the galaxy with the Space Wolves . Once word reached them of the HH, both legions rushed back. However, Leman forced them to stop and help Imperial planets instead of going directly to Terra. They even made the longest Warp Jump in the history of the Warp to get there. If they had gone straight to Terra, they would've arrived soon enough to save Sanguinius and the Emperor. Leman realized this, and begged the Lion to kill him for it. The Great Wolf was in tears over the fact that he could not save his father.

So, if anybody is to blame for the DA not helping out, it is the SW. And for those of you who think that's not enough, where were the Ultramarines? They were off campaigning, and didn't even try to help.

It is not a lesser known, more correct version. It is a crazed, incorrect version that the Fallen are loyalist. You realize that Cypher is trying to kill the Emperor, right?

The DA have their secrets. They protect their secrets. Yet they are the most devout chapter of the Imperium. They pray more than the Gray Knights. The only heretics here are those accusing the DA.

Abael, I'm curious where you're getting this fluff? I know that jfrazell is getting his from "Angels of Darkness," but where's this stuff written, as I haven't seen it? As a hardcore Dark Angel (my figs are painted black, just like they were when Rogue Trader came out, I'm hardcore, dammit!) I'm interested in finding some stuff that's new to me.

Also, I really like the version given in that book. DA are not chaos, but that's only because the Lion never made up his mind, nor did he ever tell anybody. Oh, but for the dropping of the shields on a battle barge...

It is a crazed incorrect verison that the Dark Angels secretly worship chaos. If it is known to only a few, I would say just about one person.
Fallen - the DAs, led by Luthor, who were left behind at caliban when the Lion went off to the southern fringe to fight wars, and then up back to Terra to try and save the Emp. They attacked the loyal DAs when they returned to their home planet.

It is said by some that not all the Fallen turned to chaos, but some were fooled by their chaotic brethren that the ships were not really Dark Angels or something, and once the fighting started, these loyal DAs knew that there was no way that they would be able to explain things to the Lion, and so they escaped with the Fallen via being transported yb chaos gods.
That could be what he was thinking of.

And as for DAs ignoring everyone at the EoT, and just defending Caliban, that is not true. GW have themselves released words to the effect that the DAs, although not following the grand scheme of things, did place many of their battles in crucial areas and not just Caliban.

Althamus>>That could be what he was thinking of.

Read Angel of Darkness, by Gav Thorpe. Fantastic read, and some... intruiging, if doubtful, revelations.

Sometimes, I know it's the Inquisition come to get me...

Specifically, I was referring to the fluff about Jonson being off with the Space Wolves, Russ making him stop, longest Warp jump, Russ in tears, etc. as to where that came from.

What kind of DA player would I be if I didn't have "Angels of Darkness?"

Oh yeah btw You have to remember Like the Black templars the Dark angels are Space borne chapter now....so they may not of helped as much as the space wolves cause there wasn't enough of them in the area I mean Fenris is reletivly close to the Eye of Terror...

Also its a misconception that The DAs spend most of their time being emo around the ruins of Caliban. And to be fair i dunno why people bring this up when there is the more concerning actions of the Relictors.....

Pffft, who gives a crap. The false emperor now sits in his tomb. Let the Galaxy Burn!

do the da and their successor chapters (angels of redemption etc.) share info about the fallen? i mean do they help each other with the search or do they keep secrets from each other too?

also i'm curious about cypher, codex da says he's in codex chaos sm but he's not unless i'm missing it

The successor chapters and the DA do share info. And Cypher was in the 3rd edition chaos codex... not their newfangled one. To find his newer rules look in one of the WD back issues (the exact issue number escapes me at the moment).

Lion El'Johnson never went traitor. Like the guy above said. They were fighting far from Earth and rushed back to defend the Empiror once they found out about the seige. Also Horus realised the gig was up when he spotted them inbound, and deliberately dropped the shileds on his barge to get the Emperor onto it as he knew he was beat when they showed up.

Then the loyalist forces destroyed every traitors homeworld and chased them all the way tot he Eye of terror. Dark Angles included attacked and killed the traitors. Even the traitors at their home Planet. Where Lion was wounded and then put in a stasis Field.

So The Lion and The Old wolf were both loyalists and never traitors despite what some young kids might want them to be.And Chaos lost big time. Losing all their homeworlds and forced to live in the warp tainte Eye of terror cause no one with an ounce of sence would go in after them.

Man none of you are listening to what DR is saying. With there past background of having traitors among them you would think they should be wiped out. Look if you had some taint in a Imperial guard unit. The whole Regiment would be wiped out. Why should it be any different then with the Marines. They have had a little taint in them. Wipe them all out to make sure it does not spread. Concept wise this could mean a whole new codex , story line, figures. more stuff to sell from GW. buissness point of view. It would be a good move.

deathronin you should be executed for saying that the most loyal servants of the emperor are traitors! The reason they hunt the fallen with such zeal is that to regain the emperors trust.
Besides that was in the past what about the basically Daemons that the Blood angels harbor that they still call brother?
Or Inquisitors who deal with bound daemons or with the chaos gods them selves.
Or not to mention the Tau's philosophy is based on the teachings of Slaanesh.
So why not wipe them all out?

And with so many "long term" Dark Angel players here doesn't any one remember the days before black Templars where the Dark Angels were the Zealot space marine chapter?

Posted By Death_Wing on 01/23/2006 5:42 PM
The reason they hunt the fallen with such zeal is that to regain the emperors trust.

See even you said it yourself. The emperor does not trust them. thanks for proving the point.

Posted By Wolf Lord Logan Grimnar on 01/23/2006 6:01 PM

Posted By Death_Wing on 01/23/2006 5:42 PM
The reason they hunt the fallen with such zeal is that to regain the emperors trust.

See even you said it yourself. The emperor does not trust them. thanks for proving the point.

The Emperor may not trust them but they are still his most Zealous followers... Well that was until these new Black Templars have become the ultimate Zealots.

Black Templars are not the ultimate zealots just because GW has put put a new Codex.

It's more the way they push the BT that bugs me. They may well be the zealous Chapter, but they are also made out to be more 'holy' than all of the other Chapters. It just bugs me thatin spite of all of this, they still try to claim land as their own, don't follow the Codex Astartes at all (I remember an article during Armageddon which stated nobody knows how many BT there are out there - they may even be the size of a Legion for all anybody knows). And there're two different spins on them - in the UK they're dark and gritty, completely dedicated to their task, the US webteam seem to have humanised them a little more.

Posted By Death_Wing on 01/24/2006 12:21 AM

Posted By Wolf Lord Logan Grimnar on 01/23/2006 6:01 PM

Posted By Death_Wing on 01/23/2006 5:42 PM
The reason they hunt the fallen with such zeal is that to regain the emperors trust.

See even you said it yourself. The emperor does not trust them. thanks for proving the point.

The Emperor may not trust them but they are still his most Zealous followers... Well that was until these new Black Templars have become the ultimate Zealots.

Where does it say that the Emperor doesn't trust them? It doesn't. The Dark Angels are so shamed that they hunt the Fallen to regain the honor THEY BELIEVE they lost. They are still as devoutly loyal to the Emperor as they were during the Crusades. They just give matters of their personal honor higher priority than matters of the Imperium. The Dark Angels aren't the most zealous followers, they're the most LOYAL of followers.

agreed, why would the emperor not trust the dark angels? Not one person outside of the DA inner circle knows of their secret so trust is not an issue. They hunt the fallen to remove the shame that they feel, but nobody is aware of it.

Darkchild

Egads!! this thread is still around. I thought this was gone along time ago. Oy, Ok all let me explain what I said. Because you all have not even hit close to the mark but maybe one of you. Now you are talking about Black Templars. Who cares about the BT. That is not what this post is about.

I said, "Ok, the DA are nothing more then traitors. I think they should be turned to a chaos unit." This is my opinon. I got one goofy head here who says I should be executed.What are you sniffing? you realize this is a game right mr.not playing with a full deck. Read what I am saying and not between the lines and then jumping into la la land. I was trying to ask a question.

We all know there have been some DA who went to CHAOS. This is a fact. What I am trying to say is when GW rights a story or gives some fluff in the codexes to let us know about the history of such codex we get a better idea on what the background is like for the whole game and story line. And to me it seems that when ever a unit or part of a unit starts getting influenced by Chaos there is some little comment on how the entire unit needs to be wiped out or was wiped out. But when you have a Space marine chapter like the DA. They dont get wiped out. I would like to see them go Chaos. I feel if some could turn, then why could it not happen to the rest. Why not turn them into Chaos?

I also mentioned, "All I ask is if you agree with me. Should the DA be consider Heritcs and kicked from imperium. I think it would make a great story line to the 40k universe." Did you get that 1st part, IF YOU AGREE with me. That means a post like Yes I agree with you. Or No i dont agree with you. I feel what happen was blah blah blah. All I wanted to know was who agreed with me or not and why. I think Quillian is the only person who explained it right from his point of view. Granted he does not agree with me but sounds to me like he read what i had to say. I got one person who mentions that there are over 1000 chapters and not all could show up for the Eye of Terror Campaign. Ok that said. The DA were there, and took part in it. So what the heck did he even bring that up for. Please people I like to post here and want to hear your thoughts but I hate it when people start going off in the wrong direction. The last few posts are about Black templars. Why even bring them up.

So for all you kiddies who are under the age of 10 let me put to you in words you might understand.

Dark Angels Why or why not should they go to Chaos. that simple enough for you. Or back it up with fact. I dont care if you have to Quote a friggen Codex by page number and paragraph. if it is needed to support your opinon then throw it up. But stay focus.

There is no need to be patronising, deathwing was merely replying "in character" as many people on other forums do, i thought that much would be obvious to someone of your vastly superior intellect. See, i can be an donkey too!
As far as i can see every comment in this thread is relevant to the context of the question as people are merely making a case for discussing whether the Dark Angels should be considered heretics or not, including details of there involvement in the eye of terror campaign and comparisons to the black templars.

Or would you prefer a thread full of
"i agree"
"I agree"
"I don't agree"

Calm down and respect everyone else's right to post their own views, like you.

Darkchild

all that and you cant even answer a question and go on with why.

Dont listen to darkchild he has been known to be slowed on these forums. I agree with you Deathronin. the DA turning to chaos would be a cool twist to the storyline. From what I got in the Eye of terror campaign GW had put the DA as hunting there own in the story line more then rather then helping out. I guess with all the chaos about this was a good chance for them to hunt their own, But thats no excuse to not help in the war.

Aside from that here is a thought. If there are DA traitors about. And there are. How is it the secret is still kept safe. Why has nobody ever said in the story line, "Hey we just got attack by DA space marines" I mean somebody has had to seen a DA tratior. and been attacked by them, as well as survived. I think the secret should be out and in the open!