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Hey guys,

I have one army done!  I have finished my Godzilla nid army and have gone 2-0 with it so far beating the local Ork Speed Freak Army and a Mech Sister army!  I am in the process of choosing the next project and I need some help from you guard veterans.

I have had my eye on guard for quite some time.  Back when I was a red shirt working for the Man, yes I was one of those loathsome GW red shirt's, honestly I really wasn't that bad! I had my eye on Steel Legion, but I ended up with a wife instead (Not a Bad thing at all!)

Now I have seen the wonder that is Forge World and feel tempted to do an IG army.  I love the death Korp and would rather do them instead.  I have a Leman Russ already and have some Idea of what I would like to have, so below is a rough idea of what I would like to have.  The point values are non-existant right now, but I want to do 1500points, without further ado, Death Korp Mech infantry...

Doctrines:
Mechanised
Iron Discipline
Close Order Drill
Veterans

HQ
Junior Honorifica (Iron Discipline)
4 Guards (maybe special weapons?)
Standard Bearer
Chimera hull hvy bolter/Multi-laser
     Total: 166 minus special weapons

Elites:
2 or 3x5 man Stormtrooper Squads with Infiltrate ans either 2 melta's or Plasma's (whichever are more effective)
     Total:  150pts to 225pts

Troops:
Command Platoon
Junior w/IDMaybe some plasma or melta lovin
Chimera with hvy bolter/multi-laser
     Total: 130pts minus special weapons

Platoon 1 and 2
Las/Plas with same pattern Chimera
     Total: 360pts

Armored Fist Squad with las/plas
Chimera
     Total: 180pts

2 Leman Russ' with Heavy bolters all around
     Total: 310pts

1 Basilisk with indirect
     Total: 125pts

Roughly 1421pts

So with that as a basis, how does it look??

Any help would be much appreciated, I just like to get list hammered out, before I drop the bucks!

Thanks Chappy P!

The veterans are illegal in a Mech army -- they need Chimeras in a Mech Army. You can use Storm Troopers in that role without Chimeras.

You need more infantry.

in 1850 I will have:
5 Squads las/plas with Chim
2 HQ w/ plasmas in Chim
2 LR( barebones)
1 Basi w/ IDF

that leaves about 150 pts for "funnies" which I sometimes buy RR, Sentinels, ST, Hellhound or just squeeze in another Infantry Squad in Chimera

@Stecal:

Thanks for the reply. I thought that would be one of the first responses about needing more infantry.I'll switch the Vets over to Storm troopers, mainly for actual financial resons than game effectiveness. That's the problem with forge world, a squad of guys plus vehicle equals over $100 ouch!

Any other thoughts??

Thanks
Chappy P!

Ow, I just noticed that you plan on buying FW Death Korps. I just use Steel Legion. I can't see the resin models lasting very long under actual tabletop game usage.

Yeah...I am not sure how long they might last. There are not any younger players in the circle I run in, so I have that going for me. If I was still a red shirt working for the man, I would probably use something else.

I just Love the FW Death Korp! They look so sweet, but it's also one of the reasons I want to do mech guard, fewer models to buy at least fewer FW models to buy.

Anyway, I am still not sure where to squeeze in another squad, suggestions??

Thanks Chappy P!

The basics of a Mechanized army are usually the same, since the required troops eat up so many points. I think you have a solid list, but there are a few things I would add or change.

1) Take at least one set of Improved Comms. If you play a lot of missions with escalation, it will help to get your men on the field as quickly as possible.

2) Consider taking a Demolisher. Mechanized armies are light on AP1 firepower, and a Demolisher with a Lascannon and Plasma Cannon can really help.

3) If you have the points, take medics for your command squads. It can really help to keep them alive.

4) You might want to drop the Basilisk and replace it with a Leman Russ. Basilisks are fine vehicles, but it can really overload your opponent's AT weapons if you have 3 AV 14 tanks and a number of chimeras on the board.

I'll look at the list in more detail later, but I will comment on the 'more infantry' thing. MechInf suffers in the HTH department more than other Guard armies as it lacks the numbers to swarm an enemy unit.

When playing my normal Guard, I usually bring 60+ infantry, sometimes over 100+, so normal assault troops (Assault Squads, Scorps, hell even 8-man 'Zerker units) aren't all that troublesome, as while they may eat a squad, my 40+ man counter-charge eats them.

You can't do that with MechInf, but you should try to get a decent amount of troops. Each squad is going to be running at 180+/- points. The most successful MechInf list I had used I had 4 squads in Chimeras, my CHQ in a Chimera, my Platoon HQ in a Chimera, and two Special Weapon Squads in Chimeras. I also took a unit of 30 or 40 Conscripts to bulk up my numbers cheaply. The special weapoin squads, when combined with the 3 Cyclops Demo vehicles I had, and backed up by a duo of Demolishers, saw to any assaulters. Not much can take 2 S10 AP2 Ordnance, 5 S8 AP2 Ordnance and 8 Flamers - they became my counter assault (also, I don't own any RR's yet, so I couldn't take them).

Another thing to consider is Cameleoline, something that is actually quite useful in a MechInf army as it makes your limited troops that much harder to kill when in cover (which you should always be in, BTW).

You can also try to go the 'maxed out platoon' way. I know that you can do this at 1850:

That's 1850 exactly. All the Chimeras have Multi-Lasers and Heavy Bolters, and everything has Close-Order Drill. And 86 models is not bad for an army that's spent 680 points on transports alone. Downgrade the Demolishers to stock Russes (150 each), and the 80 points saved buys you Cameleoline for each squad.

Anyway, just some food for thought. I'll look at the list itself later.

BYE

Interesting. What force slot do Cyclops take up? I thought it was a heavy so I've always ignored them.

Cyclops are FA slots

Yep, Fast Attack. And they're 25 points each - total bargain.

BYE

Excellent. Lets see FW model = $ 16 each & overseas shipping or I could just buy 15mm Flames of War Tanks for $ 9 and convert...

Thanks for the replies guys!

Ok with all the replies so far I think I have hammered out a decent list. I really wanted veterans, but they would require a Chimera, an exspensive proposotion for an already exspensive army! So I thought I could cheap out and take Grenadiers, but they cannot deep strike or infiltrate, so then I thought, why not take the restricted troops ST, but then they couldn't have Cameleoline! So they have been dropped completely from the list!

I love the models, but I really want improved cover saves! My Tyranid Godzilla Army knows how good Cover saves can be!

As for extra bodies? With the Veteran/ST possibility gone, I added another Las/Plas squad. That brings my total up quite a bit!

Ok as the list stands I am 24 points over the 1500 point limit! So what do I need to cut down??
What needs to be improved or do I have a general grasp of what Competative Mech IG looks like??

I know the body count might still be low, but again I am planning to go FW death korp, so I kind of want to keep the body count low and keep things reasonable...Anyway onto the new List Version 2!

Doctrines:
Mechanised
Iron Discipline
Close Order Drill
Cameleoline

HQ
Junior Officer with Honorifica, Iron Discipline, Cameleoline
3 Guards, 1 Veteran Standard Bearer
Chimera hull hvy bolter/Multi-laser
Total: 176

Troops:
Command Platoon
Junior w/ID 3xFlamers, Cameleoline
Chimera with hvy bolter/multi-laser
Total: 153pts minus special weapons

Platoons 1, 2 and 3
Las/Plas, Cameleoline
Chimera with hvy bolter, Multi-Laser
Total: 570pts

Armored Fist Squad with las/plas, Cameleoline
Chimera with vy Bolter/Multi-laser
Total: 190pts

2 Leman Russ' with Heavy bolters all around
Total: 310pts

1 Basilisk with indirect
Total: 125pts

Roughly 1524pts

So what do ya think!

Thanks for the comments/Critisisms/Critiques and etc., etc., etc., Keep them coming!

Once again I like to hammer out my list so I know what to buy!

Thanks,
Chappy P!

Those 24 pts -- you don't really need the HB sponsons on the LR, drop a flamer. Your chimeras already have lots of str 5-6 shots and all you really want the LR for is the Battle cannon anyway.

Well, I have been playing mech guard since Armageddon and found it to be one of the most enjoyable and rewarding armies to play. It is also one of the more imposing armies to face (soooo much armour). The following is the list I use;

Doctrines: Mechanized, Iron Discipline (ID), Die Hards (DH) and Sharpshooters (Sh)

HQ:

HSO w/ bolt pistol, power weapon, ID, DH
Retinue: 2 flamers, master vox
Chimera w/ multi-las, HB, dozer, extra armour, searchlight

A-T Squad w/ 3x ML, Sh
Chimera: as above

Comd Sentinel w/ multi-las, advanced comms

Troops (Platoon)
Junior Officer w/ Honorifica, bolt pistol, power weapon, ID, DH
Retinue: 2 flamers, vox
Chimera: as above

Vet Sgt w/ LC, plasma, Sh
Chimera: as above

Vet Sgt w/ LC, Plasma, Sh
Chimera: as above

Troop (Armoured Fist Squad)

Vet Sgt w/ LC, Plasma, Sh
Chimera: as above

Fast Attack

Sentinel Squadron (3 w/ multi-laser each)

Heavy Support

Demolisher w/ LC, no sponsons

Griffon (most under-rated tank in the game!)

;francois

I see voxes. Die heretic.

*shakes head*

Voxes... why would you pay points for something that you already get for free? All you have to do is keep one model partially within 12" of an Officer. That's not hard.

BYE

Were are the current rules for the Griffon. I have looked thru my Imperial Armor books and cant seem to find them.

You can get the rules for the griffon from the Armored Co PDF off GW's website. IA 3 or 4 gave them some new shells, smoke shells, etc.

The other thing I like about that list is that the guy put his comms on an AV 10 open topped walker rather than the av 14/13/11 beastick (which has no sponsons...) sitting in HS. This list, I believe is a good indicator between decent and competitive. The previous ones have been almost to quite competetive. This one can compete with lists that are similarly not well thought out.
cheers

My style of play is very mobile and terrain dependent. More times than not, one or more squads are outside the 12" range (ie. trying to claim an objective).



LOL



Taking in your previous post, I'll assume the sarcasm. That said, why risk the open comms on a vehicle that will more times than not fail to last past turn 2 or get shaken to disallow shooting (sponsons then becoming a point sink) in future turns. That AV 10 open-topped walker always deploys, regardless of Escalation or some such restriction, deploys near the end of the order (after HS, TR, etc) and can take advantage of cover more easily (typically deployed behind cover) to allow for better reserve rolls. Works like a charm.

As for the Demolisher, it's an intimate support tank, meant to support a mechanized advance/move across the board. Las-cannon or Demolisher is all it needs.



<shrug> It's a veteran list that has held out through a codex change, codex creep for other armies and edition updates without losing any of it's edge. More wins than losses and many of those wins against HoH winning and GT-style lists. The officers (counter-charge after a double flame unit) and Griffon surprise many an opponent. Perhaps the fact it mirrors what a modern mechanized infantry platoon looks like (I'm an infantry officer) changes how it gets played. <shrug> What has it been, 3+ years since Armageddon?

Posted By Lemartes on 01/22/2007 1:11 PM
Were are the current rules for the Griffon. I have looked thru my Imperial Armor books and cant seem to find them.

Griffon is in Imperial Armour 1 and 3.

BYE

@f.desrochers
I've always been bad at the HBMC bad ass critiquer...I guess I'm just too nice of a guy It's interesting that this list has lasted over an edition change, most of 'em can't do that.

Given that, I do have a couple of questions:

1) Sentinels: they've got multi-lasers. You already have 6 on chimeras, why do you need more, and why wouldn't you pay 10 points to upgrade to las cannons?

2) Why no sponsons on the demolisher? If you're shooting at DSing termies, wouldn't you want to go with 2 small blasts to get over the scattering/inv save issue?

3) The comms are a matter of preferance, I think that if they're on a sentinel, your sentinel HAS to be hiding, and thus, not shooting, which makes it do one or the other, whereas the LRD can trust its AV and smoke to get it through the first couple of turns and still shoot its heart out (granted, it won't shoot on smoke turn, but if that's on its first movement, nothing's going to be in range anyways). If you took drop troops and held your sentinel in reserve, you should be ok. That's an interesting thougt...

4) A griffon is what, 75 points? It's also got AP 4, right? Given all of that, I find it hard to not pony up on a bassalisk which has that ever-important AP 3. Also, anyone used to dealing with a bassalisk will not have a heart attack seeing a griffon.

5) Why are you relying on your P/C HQs to do counter charge? That's 5 s3 power weapon attacks on the charge. You hit marines with 3 and wound once. That's assuming that they didn't kill your t3 5+ save models with their higher initiative attacks. If you cut that out (and some voxes) you'd have the points for some rough riders (horrid models not withstanding) which hit at I/S 5 and ignore saves. And are faster. And aren't the lynchpin of your LD. I think that you see where I'm going.

6) Why take an AT squad when you could have a line squad with a las cannon for 20 points less? Sure, you lose 2 heavy weapons, but you gain 4 men, 20 points and a las cannon?

7) Why flamers in the command sections? If you're going for counter charge, wouldn't you want plasma guns to make sure what ever you were shooting stayed dead?

8) Just thought of a solution to the comms issue! Why not put them on the girffon which wants to stay out of LOS anyways? You get the best of all worlds

Hmm...all in all interesting. Can't say that I like all of your choices, but if it's worked for you who the hell am I to tell you that you're wrong.

cheers

@ether dude

Admittedly, it is the only army I have that survived the edition change; worst off has been my mechanized Iyanden - now THAT was an overhaul. DH and WH didn't fare too badly, but certainly not well-off. To answer your questions:



With each squad toting one, as well as the Demolisher, I felt weight in fire won over high-strength low-BS shots.



Originally it was a points crunch (I know someone will point out the vox-debate for this ); after some time, they actually became a liability because more times than not the Demolisher took a LOT of glancing hits and could not shoot. That was the point as far as an intimate support tank goes, but I have to say that it was a lucky coincidence.



Which is why it was one the lone Sentinel. Considering it *always* deploys, it is a pretty effective way to get around escalation and reserve missions. That and a lone Sentinel is relatively easy to hide and makes little impact on the overall battle.



Yep, 75 points of mortar-lovin'! That being said, S6 Ap4 usually raises a few eyebrows, especially AP3 armies used to dealing with Bassies - until they start having to make a large number of saves or find the template sitting on their tank's rear armour. Most armies are not set-up to deal with indirect very well, let alone one hidden among a sea of armour. Fluff-wise, it is also an armoured reconnaissance unit, which wouldn't have an artillery piece with it. This is a tank that you either love or hate. I see the argument for the bassie as well, no questions.



I get this question a lot, especially when I flame and charge a unit of termies, which always gets a good laugh from the looks on their faces. That being said, two flamer templates usually cover all or most and usually get one or two. The charge more times than not gets another one at least and unless I face the counter-attack special ability, a leadership check gets forced. Don't get me wrong there are better units, Roughriders as mentioned (and fully agreeing with the quality of models) among others. Calculated risks but usually one done with a relatively positive chance for success and a secondary plan in case of failure. Iron Discipline and Die-Hard helps tie things up as well; I've lost a good number of command squads to termies to just shut the damned assault cannons for a couple of turns.



A good point. That said, this gives me an empty Chimera which I use for plugging holes and 'terrain creation.' No longer capable of claiming quarters, they work wonders blocking line of sight. Kept a shooty Dark Angel list from accomplishing anything with one during a tournament; picked the rest apart with none other than the Griffon .



That certainly is a solution. Without the BGB in front of me, I'm not sure how escalation and mission-specific deployment would play on this, but definitely food for thought!

I usually end up playing a flanking or pincer move around intervening terrain, relying on massive amounts of firepower (read: dice rolls) and Chimera bunkers for my lascannons to divert armour and deliver the squad to claim objectives (empty Chimeras then become mobile terrain). There seems to be nothing more frustrating to a marine player than not being able to shoot a Guard squad from an objective due to intervening armour.

Improved Comms are effective even when they are on a vehical that is in reserves. Also saw the comment about the template on the rear armor. The only way that can happen if you miss and the template drifts behind the vehical. If the is the case the the blast is at half strength and good luck piercing av10 with str3 even using two dice and taking the hightest.

I thought the new rulebook FAQ said you can place the template hole ANYWHERE over a model's base, not just centered.

Admittedly I have no codex or faq to reference, but this is definitely one for me to verify. It's been a while since I refered to the Guard codex.....

;francois