Ork Battlewagon

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**Papa_Theif**

I was looking at the Ork Battlewagon and got an idea that seems a bit overpowered and was wondering if I missed anything.

My plan was to equip a Battlewagon with 2 twin Rokkits, a Zap gun. Pay the extra points and add 5 Big Shoota's. I know I have to have a squad inside to operate the big shoota's.

Being an open top vicheal my squad can shoot out freely, so there is no restriction on gun slots.

I plan on putting 16 slugga's with 3 Big Shoota's and a Big Mek with Kustom Force Field inside the vicheal. It can hold 20 orks.

So my question is, upon minimum movement 6" or 7" with red paint, can I fire 8 big shoota's, 2 twin linked Rokkits, Zap gun plus whatever I decide to put on my Big Mek?

I believe I can, but I want to be sure.

**Lordhat**

For "vehicle" mounted Weapons, unless the squiggoths is an exception:
=0" Any and all Weapons
<=6" one offensive weapon (=> STR=7) and all Defensive weapons (<= STR6)
>6" No vehicle mounted weapons may be fired.

I'm also not sure if the red paint job is an exception to this rule or not. (Meaning you can get an extra inch and still fire). I think so but I'm not sure.

**Kelthar the Unveiled**

Red Paint Job: You only count as moving 6" if you move 7", so its okay, fire away

the battlewagon is certainly not overpowered tho. It pops almost as quickly as trukks because opponents will be afraid of it

and it's fairly expensive with the squad inside.

**yakface**

Posted By Papa_Theif on 02/13/2007 11:55 AM

I was looking at the Ork Battlewagon and got an idea that seems a bit overpowered and was wondering if I missed anything.

You didn't miss anything in your rules analysis, but your judgement on the potential performance of the Battlewagon is wwwaaaaaayyyyyy off.

The open-toped nature of the Battlewagon means that it dies a lot more easily than any other AV13 vehicle.

The more points you pour into it, the more points you lose/give away as VPs when your opponent destroys the thing in turn 1-2.

Worse yet, if you put a big unit inside of it when the battlewagon blows up you lose 40-60% of your unit (depending on whether you were moving more than 6" or not).

About the only viable tactic for the Battlewagon is to use it as a push-back unit during deployment, put a unit in it and pray to get the first turn, and if you do so, move the thing 13" and dump out the big unit.

That tactic, of course, only works the 50% of the time you get the first turn. The other 50% of the time, the enemy nukes the battlewagon on the first turn and you lose a bunch of VPs.

**cuda1179**

In a speed freeks army you can give it either an armored top or a force feild to make it count as closed-topped, which is good. If that is the cae I would suggest equipping it with as much anti-vehicle goodness as you can afford.

If you are playing regular orks, the best thing to do is have three twin linked big shootas, red paint job, armor plates, grot riggers, 5 bolt-on big shootas, and a unit of grots inside it. It wikll be a realitively cheap anti-infantry vehicle that can throw out more shots that a Leman Russ Exterminator. Plus, if it blows up the unit inside it is VERY cheap and disposable.

**Ghaz**

In a speed freeks army you can give it either an armored top ...

Which cuts his firepower in half taking you down to the battlewagon's weaponry and the bolt-on big shootas.

**Papa_Theif**

Well I did find that you can put a Kustom FF on a vicheal, saw it in the Armageadon book. Which leave it an open top, but eliminates the penality.

The idea of putting grotz is interesting, I would lose the extra 3 Big Shoota's from a regular sluga squad, but it reduces the point loss.

Thanks for mentioning the VP, didn't really think about that.

I am assuming that if it is in an official GW book I can use it correct?

**budro**

The rules in C:armageaddon are for Speed Freeks, not codex orks. Putting a big Mek in there with a KFF will only give you "obstructed" 50% of the time. You still have the penalty for being open-topped.

Grots in a Bw: debatable on whether this is legal or not as grots aren't orks, but feel free to do it anyway.

You can only use the vehicle upgrades in that book for a Speed Freek army. But yes, speed freeks are a legal army.

**yakface**

What Budro said:

Grots can't fire a bolt-on big shoota because they aren't a "boyz".

**Pariah Press**

I've heard that in a Speed Freeks list a close-topped battlewagon (or two) with KFF make a good screening unit to hide your Trukks behind for when you have to cross between areas of cover. Speed Freeks seem to be all about formation-driving. Hide your eggs (trukks) within a basket of Battlewagons, Looted Demolishers, and wartracks/buggies.

**yakface**

Posted By Pariah Press on 02/14/2007 7:20 PM
I've heard that in a Speed Freeks list a close-topped battlewagon (or two) with KFF make a good screening unit to hide your Trukks behind for when you have to cross between areas of cover. Speed Freeks seem to be all about formation-driving. Hide your eggs (trukks) within a basket of Battlewagons, Looted Demolishers, and wartracks/buggies.

I'd disagree. Trukks are small enough models and they move quickly enough (25" with RPJ and 26-31" with RPJ and Turbo Boosta) that on any table with even halfway decent terrain the Trukks are better off using the natural terrain than to hide behind the much slower Battlewagons that can still (even close-topped) be stunned, immobilized or destroyed.

Battlewagons suffer from the Land Raider syndrome: you pay the points for the transport capacity and for its weapons. At least with the Land Raider you have a vehicle that is generally much more durable (so there's an okay chance your investment will still be alive at the end of the game).

Battlewagons don't have that same durability, so whatever built-in points you aren't maximizing in the role you use it for always come back to bite you when the thing blows up.

Hopefully in the next codex a Battlewagon profile will be a bit customizable (like Ork vehicles should be). That way you can just pay the points for a big transport or you can pay the points for a gunboat. Either way you should have the option to make it closed-topped for the appropriate points cost. A system like that would make Battlewagons highly useful and work very nicely with a highly configurable plastic kit.