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Bit of a strange one...

Is there any fluff anywhere that tells you what happens when a Space Marine becomes to old to fight?

Obviously SM live for hundreds of years doing their duty to serve the emporer and mankind, but even Marines will eventually grow too old and not as abled bodied as they once were. So what happens to them, do they retire and live within their chapters emparting their great wisdom when needed like dreadnoughts? or do they simply give their gene-seed back to the chapter? etc? etc?

 

Anyone know?

well no one really knows because no space marine has ever lived long enough to show the full signs of aging or die of old age. If you read the horus heresy books it reinforces this idea that space marines are doomed to die in battle long before they die of old age.

THE HH books give a different perspective to SM's life span, as (to roughly qoute the second book) no-one has lived long enough for anybody to know if they're immortal.

The fluff has dug itself a bit of a hole in that SM's are near indestructible thanks to their amazing physical endurance and their armour, yet they all seem to die in combat.

I'd imagine a SM would be able to keep fighting as long as his own life span. By that, I mean that the way they are designed is such that they can stay alive and remain effective until their bodies quite literally give up and allow them to die, whether through battle wounds or simply reaching a point where the body can no longer sustain itself.

IIRC somewhere it was mentioned that marines too injured to fight on (which would include old age I think) become servitors to drive rhinos and other vehicles.

Marines who are unworthy are also punished this way.  Reward and punishment are thus the same.

In older fluff I recall something about the average SM lifespan being about 300-400 years. BA lived much longer due to their geneseed mutation.

Well, if the rumor about Captain Garro still being alive as an apothecary or something of the like has any truth to it, then I'd say that the Marines can be immortal, or just as good. 10,000 years give or take a few centuries is a looooooong time.

Posted By djones520 on 02/21/2007 11:56 PM
Well, if the rumor about Captain Garro still being alive as an apothecary or something of the like has any truth to it, then I'd say that the Marines can be immortal, or just as good. 10,000 years give or take a few centuries is a looooooong time.

Didnt a book just come out on this guy? I gotta find this book..there was a topic on this forum about 5 years ago about the "what if" on this guy....I found this on wikipedia....check it!!

 

<h3>Flight of the Eisenstein</h3>

The seventy Loyalists led by Captain Garro commandeered the Imperial frigate Eisenstein and, evading the forces of Horus, were able to escape from the Istvaan System into the Immaterium. The Eisenstein was badly damaged during its escape from Istvaan III; all its astropaths were dead, and its lone Navigator was mortally wounded. However, Garro managed to attract the attention of passing Loyalist ships by setting the vessel's Warp engines to self-destruct and ejecting them from the ship. Rogal Dorn's Imperial Fists Legion had been becalmed in the Warp with its fleet for some time, and his Navigators sensed the detonation of the Eisenstein's Warp drives. Making an immediate course for the location of the ship's beacon, Dorn met with Garro, who explained to him all that had happened with the Traitor Legions.

The Eisenstein was able to reach Terra, allowing the loyal Marines to report the extent of the atrocities that had occurred in the Istvaan System. It was said in later millennia that without this warning, the Imperium would have faced even greater difficulties responding to Horus's final moves.

The fate of these seventy Marines is ultimately unknown. Some believe they continued to fight for the Emperor until death claimed them, while others maintain that they were treated as if they were their traitorous brethren, either imprisoned and left to rot, or executed. Others believe that Captain Garro, shocked by the terrible betrayal, became an Apothecary, vowing never to kill again.

Yet there is another story concerning their fate. Malcador the Sigilite had presented eight of the survivors to the Emperor before his departure. These men were gifted psykers, came from the ranks of the Legions that had turned Traitor, and yet maintained both an unbreakable faith in the Emperor and talent for resisting the temptations of Chaos. Many believe these men formed the nucleus of the elite Space Marine Chapter known as the Grey Knights.

if you read the GK novel (the first one) there is an apothacary in there that is too old to fight etc and whilst he still functions on titan as a medic etc he is quoted as having a nubmer of his extra organs removed. GK is a good book for getting ideas for fluff etc on marine chapters
cheers
millest

I don't think that "old marines" would become servitors?

I aslo dont think marines become servitors too, but i do beleive they go too the old space marine homes were they sit around and play horseshoes and thermo nuclear war with the rest of them????

Ya I dont think Marines would become servitors when they retire.....

If so no wonder no marines live to be old...

Who would want the "servitor retirement program" no pun....

-MR.B

I'm reading the Soul Drinker Omnibus right now, and in the first book there is a chaplin who is described as being to old to fight anymore. What he does I don't know. Since the Soul Drinkers were fleet based, i would assume that he helped train new marines and chaplins.

I remember the fluff saying that space marines lived four roughly 300-400 years too. Rogal Dorn died of old age when he was 1,500 years old-ish. I guess if they were really cool they get to be Dreadnoughts - if not they stay in the chapter training new recruits or working on in some other, honoured way until they just passed into the night. I guess dying in battle would be the way they'd want to do it but we can't all get our wishes can we?

actually i thought rogal dorn disappeared whilst fuighting the dark eldar? and if you read the horus heresy books the primarchs are essentially immortal the only way for them to die is to be killed in battle or the like

In the new fluff Dorn died on the bridge of a Traitor cruiser.

Also, the stuff about the Primarchs being Immortal is dubious. They lived a long time, but all got killed in battle, disappeared and never showed up again or elevated to Daemonhood. There's no record of existence for any of the unaffected Primarchs.

Maybe they become wal*mart greeters ( that would be scarey some 8 ft tall fellow with studs saying well come too walmart and does the walmart cheer for you)

Just too scary for me

The only chapter that has any in canon background of retired life are the Salamanders. They 'live amongst their people' on Prometheus, it is noted as being unusual. They also live with the civilians when not on duty on Nocturne or away fighting.

Right yeah sorry - should have stated that I was quoting 2 Edition Fluff.

Ultramarines who can't fight any more join the headquarters section.

the space wolf codex says old space wolves become long fangs (devastators) & get no bonuses for charging in close combat cause they're to old for that sort of thing.

Essentailly they can live for a very long time, how long nobody knows as there is not any info on retired marines.

Dante is currently the oldest active Marine in canon, at 1100+ years of active service.  Again footnoted with the Blood Angels extended life span.

Of course, the discussion must also consider time-dilation from warp travel, and the effects of stasis.  Bjorn is the oldest known marine, however he is in a dreadnought and kept in stasis for decades at a time.

Best guess is every chapter has a place for the very few elders to go.  As I recall, the chapter banner bearer is given the honorific of Ancient, which may be an indication of place that they go.  Also the fleet officer core has occasionally been represented as older than normal.  The librarium is responsible for keeping the records of the chapter in addition to training and controling the chapter's psyhers, so some of the old might get desk jobs here.  The chaplains are another obvious choice, some find their calling young, others old, but they still inspire faith.  Otherwise, I think most of them end up in the first company, possibly deliberately deep striking into difficult terrain in line of sight to an earthshaker just to end the monotony.

Posted By Dragonmann on 03/13/2007 7:42 AM

  Otherwise, I think most of them end up in the first company, possibly deliberately deep striking into difficult terrain in line of sight to an earthshaker just to end the monotony.

Thats the marines equivalent of anti depressents

Or they could let them have there wish to die in battle, they gather up all the ole farts and send them on a suicide mission with nuthing more then scout armor and bolt pistols, too scout out and do recon. Thats the way they get there wish and the chapter get some vial intel on the emeny... and If they live, guess what they just go out on another mission until they get blewn apart.... kinda makes since too in a space marine way, having a vetern of that age train the new and foolish recuits....

I just finished soul drinkers ombus. in soul drinker Gorgoleon had a servitor who "had once been part of the chapter who became too aged and decript to be of further use  and had been rebult as Gorgoleon's personal valet." 

My take:

It would make sense if many of ther marines did survive, outside of tabletop games marines are not thrown into hopeless combats, and more often than not come through battles with only minor casualties. Times when a company are lost/decimated are rare.

Once a marine gets too old he is removed from the roster (to allow another younger marine to be one of the 1000). He then serves in the fleet. It doesnt make sense for a chapter fleet to be all but entirely crewed by chapter serfs and still get its leadership bonuses.

This also leads me to beleive that 'dreadnoughts' are far more prevalent than they appear. Only the best actually get to continue in a dreadnought suit, the majority of sarcophagi - those occupied by ordinary marines are plugged into the weapons and control systems of chapter warships.

While it is inconvievable for a chapter to manage to run a fleet of strike cruisers, allowing that it normally requires 1000 men to crew a lance turret. It is far more reasonable igf you have a few thousand chapter serfs, with improved equipment, a dozen or so retired maries to command them and a bank of remnant marines in sarcophagi emulating a networked AI.

Makes sence apart from the sarcofigie thing as I doubt they would use them for that. If the marine is that badly injured yet not such a great hero that they put him into a dred they would just give him the emporors peace and take his geneseed

well, not all the primarchs are dead actually. beef im suprised you didn't mention that russ went chasing after chaos into the warp. thats not dying is it. personally, i hoped they were going to give him some fluff appearance in the Eye of Terror campaign. instead we just got the same ole "imperium in dire danger more than ever!" excuse for progression.

my take on the marines "retirement" would probably go down to act as drill sergeants for the new marine recruits. kind of like in space wolf, except they are permanently there. they probably also haul around vets to act as tactical advisors to current companies to help planning (and act as replacements for casualties in a tight spot).

Actually beef the 'sarcofigie thing' is what makes most sense.

Have you ever played Battlefleet Gothic, or looked at the rulebooks? It is quite impossible for a chapter to run a fleet, let alone fight as a small army aswell. However you can get a computer to run a warship, the trouble is the Imperium don't build computers. They like brainbags instead. Using sarcophagi is the only viable way of giving each an every SM warship the SM leadership bonuses, and you wouldnt need that many ex-marines either if they are hardwired into the ships systems. Sarchophagi marines, unlike wired in servitors, are self aware and independantly thinking.

Thanks for all the responses everyone.


Think you've got a point beef, in the SM Codex theres a little mini story where a Space Marine is given the emperor's peace after jumping on a grenade to save his comrads. Stands to reason that if Space Marines became to old that too would get the Emperor's peace to allow younger marines to take their place to better serve the Chapter.

What you think?