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What qualifies as a cover save for a hill?  Where do the models have to be to get a cover save:

Save, Yes or No? (Generally lets assume a standard plateau style hill with a flat top and a 30 degree slope, where the top meets the slope is called the crest.)

1 Up against the edge of the hill, but the models are taller then the hill?

2 On (touching) the crest of a hill?

3 On the slope of a hill?

4 On top of a hill?

5 Anywhere on a hill? (regardless of firer position).

6 Touching a hill at all?

7 A hill between a firer and target (valid LOS) niether up against it.

8 If the firer is a vehicle does that make a diffence or not?

Also, are hills dificult terrain? Just the edges/slopes? What kind of models would make a difference?

Draw a LOS to the model. If the LOS crossed over terrain that would provide cover then he gets a cover save.

 

EDIT:Corrected for erronius quote.

So does that mean, a model, anywhere on a hill, fired on from any angle, or with a hill between the firer and the target gets a save?

Where is that a quote from?

Posted By Augustus on 02/27/2007 2:52 PM

So does that mean, a model, anywhere on a hill, fired on from any angle, or with a hill between the firer and the target gets a save?

Where is that a quote from?

The LOS drawn from the firer to the target must cross the terrain that provides the cover, and the terrain must qualify as cover(ie, no Size 1 terrain providing cover for a vehicle).

Page 25 of the BBB, under "When do models count as in cover?"

Posted By Augustus on 02/27/2007 2:52 PM
So does that mean, a model, anywhere on a hill, fired on from any angle, or with a hill between the firer and the target gets a save?

No. It means that when you check LOS, if any part of the model on the hill is obscured, he gets a cover save.

So the crux is that some part of the model has to be obscured then for a there to be a save regardless of terrain and model placement?

(and thanks Angelus I will review that.)

Posted By Augustus on 02/27/2007 3:17 PM

So the crux is that some part of the model has to be obscured then for a there to be a save regardless of terrain and model placement?

(and thanks Angelus I will review that.)

Yes, when dealing with non-area terrain "true" LOS and the actual obscurement of the model by the terrain piece is what matters.

With area terrain, the LOS must just pass into/over the terrain.

OK, well thanks for everyone's input.  I have been intentionally non commital on this one, in an attempt to get some objective clarification to resolve some specific situations I was in, before I commented.

A friend of mine has been playing for a long time that models on hills at all get a 5+ cover save, kind of by the "los passes over" concept addressed here.  I have long thought it was incorrect, and this thread confirms that.

In tournaments I have seen the claim made that just because a hill (or other terrain feature) is between firer and target the target(s) get a save (even though they are clearly not obscured). This also I believe is incorrect and I think the thread confirms that as well.

Targets behind, but not in, (obscured) a wood get a cover save.  Something I previously thought was wrong, I thought they should have to be technically in the wood to some degree (difficult test) which led me to believe that generally to get a cover save a unit had to take a diffcult terrain test in their movement phase.  Which I think I had wrong, due to the "obscured" language that has also popped up here.

Thanks for your inputs, if you have anymore, please...

Posted By Augustus on 02/27/2007 3:38 PM
A friend of mine has been playing for a long time that models on hills at all get a 5+ cover save, kind of by the "los passes over" concept addressed here.  I have long thought it was incorrect, and this thread confirms that.

It's incorrect by the RAW, but I've found over the years that people tend to add a lot of their own rules to hills, due to the difficulty of making hill terain pieces that are any sort of decent size and/or detailed while still being practical for standing models on.

So a lot of players tend to play with a variation of the rules, designed to make the hills function more like they should, in the same way that the Area Terrain rules make forests work like they should rather than as they appear.

Some examples of rules that I've come across:
 - Hills block LOS to models on ground level, regardless of the hill's (and the models') physical size
 - Models on the slope facing the firer gain a cover save from models on ground level
 - Models on the slope away from the firer are out of LOS, regardless of physical LOS. (I've also seen it played that models on the front are in the open, and models on the back gain a cover save)
 -  Hills are difficult terrain, regardless of the physical construction/steepness of the slope/etc
 

...none of which is actually RAW, but all fairly common house rules.

BUt then you also have too go by size level too .( I do beleive there a part in the rules saying that models are hugging and crouching down behind cover as to benifit from it( or i might be mistaking some other games rules too) .

No. Unless it is area terrain the size level is of no consequence.

To clarify further, only Area Terrain has a size level. Size categories are only used when attempting to shoot over area terrain or an ongoing assault, which block LOS in an abstract manner.

And, not all terrain is area terrain.

Sorry, pet peeve. A friend and common tourney goer who plays Mech Tau insists on assigning size levels to every piece of terrain on the board so he has enough places to hide his vehicles and suits behind. 1" tall fences suddenly become level 2 terrain features, etc....

Sal.

Well, its a good idea to come to a consensus about the terrain prior to the game. Consensus: general agreement or concord; harmony.

So if its on the table it should have some characteristic as terrain.

Posted By Saldiven on 02/28/2007 11:33 AM
And, not all terrain is area terrain.

Sorry, pet peeve. A friend and common tourney goer who plays Mech Tau insists on assigning size levels to every piece of terrain on the board so he has enough places to hide his vehicles and suits behind. 1" tall fences suddenly become level 2 terrain features, etc....

Sal.

That is a good point.