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Someone told me recently that in their new 'dex DA get open-topped pods.  Can anyone confirm this?  If true, I forsee a lot of DW squads mounted in DPs in the near future.

The current marine pod is also open-topped, but since they are deepstriking and automatically disembark it dosent really help with anything.

but surely since their wearing power armour it doesnt count as open topped, when a rhino has its hatches open as marines are in pa then it doesnt count as open topped, surely this would apply to DPs as well?
millest

Posted By millest on 03/01/2007 1:23 AM
but surely since their wearing power armour it doesnt count as open topped, when a rhino has its hatches open as marines are in pa then it doesnt count as open topped, surely this would apply to DPs as well?

Only if the Marines open the Pod's hatches in order to shoot out of it... and if it counted as a Closed vehicle at any point.
 
The rule that stops vehicles from counting as Open-topped for Power-armoured models applies to Closed-topped vehicles with troops shooting from a Fire Point. It's not a blanket rule, and doesn't actually apply to Open-topped vehicles at all.

I believe it was clarified by JJ that coming in via drop pod is still deep striking, so still no assault from it on the same turn.

Actually its clarified in that silly little thing called a "codex."

but if you shot at a drop pod you can blow them up at if they were open topped?

yup, they are affected as an open topped vehicle.

...because they are open-topped vehicles...

do mystics allow you to shoot a pod before disembarkation?

Insaniak - he is referring to the land speeder, which is not opentopped because it has space marines inside.

Obviously, GW doesn't feel like following a single rule in these circumstances.

The Landspeeder isn't open-topped because it isn't listed as open-topped.

The 'because it's crewed by Marines' was from the last codex. It no longer exists as a rule.

Actually it was never really a 'rule' to begin with but it was more of a 'fluff justification'.

Yes, agreed.

I can't recall clearly - aren't Rhinos close topped with Marines firing from the top hatch, but are not if orks are doing the same?

3rd edition it was like that.

Posted By Antonin on 03/01/2007 2:41 PM
do mystics allow you to shoot a pod before disembarkation?

According to the RAW, no, because pods do not actually deep strike.

No it was a rule not some fluff justification. Any vehicle occupied by a marine is not open topped. Its still the same.

Posted By 5thelement on 03/02/2007 10:44 AM
No it was a rule not some fluff justification. Any vehicle occupied by a marine is not open topped. Its still the same.

Could you please provide us with a document and page number?

I believe it says (somewhere in the rulebook) that any vehicle driven by a model with a 3+ save or better does not count as open topped. (no i don't remember the page number, and I'm to lazy to look it up)

Pods, however, count as open topped because it is fairly easy to shoot the internals after the doors deploy. (its also an unmanned vehicle)

Posted By bigchris1313 on 03/02/2007 10:34 AM

Posted By Antonin on 03/01/2007 2:41 PM
do mystics allow you to shoot a pod before disembarkation?

According to the RAW, no, because pods do not actually deep strike.

DA pods do, by RAW.  Therefore, you can.  For other Pods, it has been FAQed that you can, so by RAW you can

Posted By IntoTheRain on 03/02/2007 10:58 AM
I believe it says (somewhere in the rulebook) that any vehicle driven by a model with a 3+ save or better does not count as open topped. (no i don't remember the page number, and I'm to lazy to look it up)

The rule I think you mean is that any CLOSED vehicle from which models with 2+/3+ saves FIRE from out of fire points still count as closed, otherwise the closed vehicle counts as open tooped during the next turn. (p64)

Open topped vehicles are just that - open topped, therefore pods are open topped irrespective of the passengers.

 

Posted By Antonin on 03/02/2007 11:03 AM

Posted By bigchris1313 on 03/02/2007 10:34 AM

Posted By Antonin on 03/01/2007 2:41 PM
do mystics allow you to shoot a pod before disembarkation?

According to the RAW, no, because pods do not actually deep strike.

DA pods do, by RAW.  Therefore, you can.  For other Pods, it has been FAQed that you can, so by RAW you can

Ummm...That's not in any official FAQ's.  I wish it was.  I'm tired of all the rules arguments that Daemonhunters causes.  Makes me not want to play my favorite army.

Posted By puree on 03/02/2007 11:21 AM
The rule I think you mean is that any CLOSED vehicle from which models with 2+/3+ saves FIRE from out of fire points still count as closed, otherwise the closed vehicle counts as open tooped during the next turn. (p64)

Yup... as I already pointed out.

It's a rule that applies to closed vehicles with models firing from them. NOT a blanket rule that applies to all vehicles with power-armoured passengers.


On the Drop Pod thing, the 'clarification' was in the Pete Haines unofficial FAQ, which ruled that you could choose to shoot at either the pod or the passengers. Take that as you will...

2 things to point out that have been mentioned and used to make rules clarifications

1. Pete haines sticky was never offical ever. it is even no longer posted anywhere on an GW site so it doesnt matter what it said....

2. Jervis Johnson and his comments while they are probably the way GW will go they are by no means official...thus we are still stuck at square one

it will depend on any tourney organizer how he will rule on the 2 different things mentioned in the da codex. Since it does not specifficaly point out that you can not assault out of a drop pod like the sm dex does. it does say the pod arrives via deepstrike.. make your own decision on what that means

Posted By The Drop Zone on 03/02/2007 9:11 PM
2 things to point out that have been mentioned and used to make rules clarifications

1. Pete haines sticky was never offical ever. it is even no longer posted anywhere on an GW site so it doesnt matter what it said....

Hence the part where I said that it was an unofficial FAQ...

Posted By 5thelement on 03/02/2007 10:44 AM
No it was a rule not some fluff justification. Any vehicle occupied by a marine is not open topped. Its still the same.

As stated, mind providing us an actual rule that says Space Marines can't have an open-topped vehicle because they're in power armor.  I think you will have a tough time of it because no such rule exists.  It is a fluff justification as to why a clearly open-topped model (Land Speeder) does not count as being open-topped, pure and simple.

Good luck finding a TO that will rule that you can assault out of a Drop Pod. I doubt any TO will pander to that particular brand of loop-holing; Have no doubt that the idea of "The Pod arrives via deepstrike, but the unit arrives via the pod, so TECHNICALLY the unit isn't deepstriking, and I can assault because the RAW doesn't say I can't, nor does it say how far the pod moved." IS loop-holing. We all know the raw is somewhat less than desired most of the time, and often one must come to conclusions with insufficient information, but this is not such a time. The first set of pod rules had a glaring omission, which the newest set has cleared up, (and was also faq'd), but were otherwise cut and dried. This new set, IMO is perfect. The deepstrike rule is used, therefor you cannot assault. Is there a Spelled-Out-Specifically-Enough-To-Satisfy-A-$5,000.00/hour-Trial-Lawyer-Rule to back this up? No, or this wouldn't be a thread. However, there is A More-Than-Sufficiently-Clear-Enough-To-Play-A-Tournament-rule to do so.
I'm not gonna knock anybody for trying to use the rules to their advantage to win, it's a very valid tactc. However, trying to use the rules to win at ANY COST, is not. If that's how you want to compete, there's Friday night Magic all over the world.

Even if the rules are a little fuzzy, I'm sure the intent is to not allow for the assaulting from drop pods.

I wonder how long it'll be before GW does something about the 20point disparity between dark angels and normal Space marine Drop Pods... now they're the same price as a rhino. So much for the cheap delivery method. Now, giving 25pts to your enemy automatically has a much more... painful tinge to it.

I'm not sure what reasoning you're getting from this. No one is implying that Drop Pods may be assaulted from because they are Open-Topped. Yes, DPs are Open-Topped, but they have the specific rule (pg 21 of the Marine Dex) that says:
"The passengers may not move (other than to disembark) or assault in the turn they land."

So Drop Pods have the following characteristics:
1 - Open-Topped
2 - Immobile
3 - Cannot be assaulted out of