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Original Chapter: (As yet Unnamed)

Traits:

Courageous: Trust your Battle-Brothers

Drawback (Minor):  Death Before Dishonour

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1000pts List

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HQ

Captain (60pts)                                                                                    110pts

Pair of Lightning Claws (30)

Jump Pack (20)

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Troops

Tactical Squad I

Sergeant and 9 Marines w/ True Grit &Counterattack (180pts)            185pts

Heavy Bolter (5)

Tactical Squad II

Same                                                                                                    185pts

Tactical Squad III

Same                                                                                                    185pts

Scout Squad I

Sergeant and 4 Scouts (65pts)                                                              90pts

Heavy Bolter (5)

4xSniper Rifles (20)

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Fast Attack

Assault Squad I

Sergeant and 4 Assault marines (110pts)                                               110pts

Land Speeder (50pts)                                                                         50pts

Heavy Support

Whirlwind (85pts)                                                                         85pts

           

                                                                                                Total: 1000pts

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Tactics:

-All troop choices advance to objectives, generally stay close and unleash bolter-hell when things come after them (Scouts to remove key models, can be infiltrated but not necessarily), and prepared for close combat (my friend plays tricked out world eaters).

-Landspeeder provides mobile fire-support

-Whirlwind launches lots of minefields to protect troops and slow/prevent enemy advance

-Assault squad jets around with Captain to support troops in combat when fighting CC heavy enemy, otherwise disrupt enemy (combine with landspeeder)

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At further points I will add a dev squad or two to bring in some lascannons to take down tanks (the main weakness of the army, but I figure I can count on the mobile fast attack units with str 4 to take down back armour on most vehicles). Also add more fast attack to support troops, alongside more scouts to disrupt enemy while main tactical squads advance to defend objectives.

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Yes this is a super-defensive army, fluff has them founded for just that purpose (even flaw reflects their training to defend at all costs, ideal for slowing/holding off ork/’nid attacks long enough for other forces to intervene).

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My questions are

<!--[if !supportLists]-->1)      <!--[endif]-->How would you improve this list?

<!--[if !supportLists]-->2)      <!--[endif]-->What armies could tear it apart?

<!--[if !supportLists]-->3)      <!--[endif]-->What armies could it tear apart?

One Land Raider and your list is toast. You need at least something - powerfist, lascannons... Maybe adjust the points to give the assault troops melta bombs, or put a multi-melta on the speeder.

I'd personnally drop the whirlwind. You have plenty of firepower to take out troops.

Another option would be to take a predator.

Since Marines are the best infantry in the 40k universe, you can't go wrong with an army including lots of 'em, and you have that down pat. However, the way you're going about it, they aren't very efficiently equipped.

10-man Marine squads are quite large -- have you considered 8- or 6-man squads? The 6-man is a min/maxed choice, but 8 is still pretty efficient. 10 can be good, especially given your use of True Grit (hey, they can become a 10-man squad with two attacks each!), but I wouldn't make all your squads 10....maybe 2 ten man squads and 2 smaller ones? In addition, add one scout to the squad -- the difference between 6 and 5 scouts is significant because of scoring-unit rules.

Armored vehicles will ruin this list's day as it stands. My 1,000 point Guard list has two Russes and two Chimerae, and many 1,000 point Eldar lists have a Falcon and a Waveserpent.

I'll post a shorthand of a list that would keep your fluff but maybe be more efficient following...nice to see someone not playing pod or terminator marines, though!

-Adso

HQ (130)

Chaplain with Crozius, Powerfist, Rosarius, Jump Pack (130)

TROOPS (620)

8x Marines w/True Grit, one Flamer, one Heavy Bolter. (147)

8x Marines w/True Grit, one Meltagun, one Heavy Bolter (151)

8x Marines w/True Grit, one Plasmagun, one Lascannon (161)

8x Marines w/True Grit, one Plasmagun, one Lascannon (161)

FAST ATTACK (142)

6x Assault Marines, two w/Plasma Pistols (142)

Land Speeder with Multimelta (65)

Land Speeder with Heavy Bolter (50)


That's just a quick one-off. You could consider dropping the 'speeders for a scout squad, dropping one tac squad for something else, putting the two HB tac squads in Rhinos, adding some Vet Sarges for more flexibility in CC, etc. I love your concept, and hope those suggestions stay true to it.

-Adso

Wow... me likey!

Yeah I had the 10 man squads with mostly bolters because with True Grit then the entire squad (- the WB guys) would get 2 attacks even when charged (with my necrons I ironically have to charge, just so they don't get wasted by a million attacks and have none back!). The Whirlwind was a favourite of mine when I played Dark Angels waaaaay back when (like over 5 years ago now), and worked well for me. Besides with the new missiles that add in a minefields, I figured I could make things hellish for my enemies! *Insert evil but righteous laugh here*

I was also thinking it over last night, and yeah the enemy having even one serious tank and I'm done is painful to think about (let alone having a dread for CC!).

I'm not actually a fan of Landspeeders, even when I used to use one (same DA army) it served primarily as a fodder unit to draw fire. It killed more than it's fair share admittedly (I've noticed everybody underestimates what a Heavy Bolter can do, even MEQ's, I usually get 1-3 kills every damn turn per HB!), but because it was so fragile go lost easily.

I was thinking a Dread to bolster the line with an assault cannon and Pwnerfist would be nice, could plop him down between two of the Tac squads and further rip up anyone coming at them. I also really like the new Pred models (still new to me!) and was considering them. Hrrm BUT (and yeah sorry this is really stream-of-conciousness) I still need mobility, as 32 footsloggers (I really like that list BrotherAdso!) won't be able to respond quickly or seize last turn objectives....

I'll post another list in a few minutes *scribbles away*

Okay keeping with the super-dakka nature of the army, (almost went too heavy on assault, which is nice and needed, but for now I want a TON of fire) here is short form list (oh and I think you miscalculated, those las/plas tac squads were 169 each, I checked like 3 times):

HQ:
Reclusiarch w/Power Fist and Jump Pack (130pts)

Troops:
8x Marines w/True Grit/Counterattack (169pts)
Lascannon, Plasmagun

Same (169pts)

Same (169 pts)

Fast Attack:
6x Assault marines (142pts)
2 Plasma Pistols

Heavy Support:
9x Devastators w/True Grit and Counterattack (222pts)
4x Heavy Bolters

Total: 1001


This way I get my anti-armour weapons in the tac squads (who can each shoot at diff targets) even though I had to make them vanilla las/plas squads And with the Dev squad throwing out 12 Str5 shots per turn *glee!* I get my HB shots! Oh and when/if the Dev's get charged, the enemy gets a nasty little surprise (see True Grit and Counterattack hehe).

The whole army is really sluggish, but once it's at an objective will be hard to break. At higher points I'll add another assault squad, a dread (or two!), and some scouts to round out the force.

How's that sound? I know highly-mobile forces would still hurt me (eg/ DE on bikes) but MEQ's couldn't make enough saves, and swarms would get a pounding. *glee*

Looking better! Just be sure to keep those Assault Marines hidden -- they are a pure counterassault unit the way they're set up. If they go anywhere on their own, they may get pounded. I did miscalculate, I realized I had set the per-marine-cost constant to 17, not 18.

If you want more variety or to expand the list, the best additions would be:

1) A pair of Landspeeder Tornados.
2) A pair of Dreadnoughts.
3) Rhinos / Razorbacks.

I would also finally suggest dropping the squad size on the Devs to 8 (why one extra Marine?) and using the points to fluff out the Chappy with meltabombs.

Good luck defending holy terra from the hordes!

-Adso

Mmm Dreads...

Hehe but yeah the extra marine was because I had 17 points leftover... though now that I think about it, meltabombs for the assault boys and the chaplain might be a better spend.... then they could advance (USING COVER**!!!!!) and take out lone tanks (especially artillery like a basilisk!)

And thanks for all the help!