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I ran a couple of searches in the YMDC forum looking for this, but all I came up with were a few Eldar-related posts...

In the Necron codex, Wraiths are Toughness 4 and get the Necron, Phase Shift, and Wraithflight special rules. We'll Be Back!, 3+ Invulnerable Save, counts as having Frag Grenades, moves like a jetbike and also regards no terrain as impassable etc. etc.

Now, on page 264 of the big bad book, they reclassify a bunch of units - Wraiths and all types of Destroyers are now bona fide Jetbikes. I would assume this means that Wraiths are now subject to the Jetbikes special rules on page 72.

Of course people now play that Wraiths can move 12" and then assault 6", or Turbo Boost 24" through impassable terrain, but what about the +1 Toughness bonus? This rule applies to all Jetbikes and does not affect the base Toughness used to calculate instant death. The Wraith army list entry says nothing about not getting the Toughness bonus or that it's already included in the stat profile.

Going further, does this override the Necron Codex Jetbikes: section in the army listing for Destroyers, giving them +1 Toughness? In the Wargear section, the Necron Lord gets the +1 Toughness for upgrading to a Destroyer Lord body, so I can see why this would not be so, but normally I would expect the codex to either say they don't get the Toughness bonus (like the Scarab Swarms, which are the very next entry!) or that the Toughness bonus is included in the profile: That would give us T5(6) as it's not used for instant death calculations.

I don't want to cheese out my Necron army any more than it already is, but it just seems contradictory to me. My Death Guard army's True Grit rule in the Chaos Codex has been rendered obsolete by the Universal Special Rule in the main rulebook, and since the main rulebook now classifies Wraiths as jetbikes, I hope this is the most sensible conclusion.

Before I go, I thought I'd also point out that in the Destroyer Body upgrade entry in the Wargear section of the Necron Armoury, it says that "as a result he can't be instantly killed by weapons with Strength 10" - this is, of course, a roundabout way of saying that the modified Toughness is indeed used to calculate instant death, as a Necron Lord's ordinary Toughness is 5. Depending on how you read this, it either contradicts or supplements the main rulebook's entry on Jetbikes - is he now listed as a T5(6) unit, or does he get an additional +1 to Toughness from the Jetbike entry, making him T6(7)? This seems impossibly beardy, but the Destroyer Lord entry doesn't come right out and say he's mounted on a jetbike, just that he moves as if mounted on one and gets +1 Toughness that counts towards instant death calculation.

I think your right in that the entry should be made clearer, like maybe have that bracketed unmodified T value.

Besides, you get to turbo-boost assault specialists, who can get into combat on turn 2 no problems. As a fellow 'Cron player, I wouldn't worry about the extra Toughness (to be fair I was the guy who started the 'True Grit' topic that leapt from 2 replies to 35 in the last 12 hours or so).

Cheers man!

This one is actually pretty easy.

Just because something is treated as a Jetbike in game terms doesn't mean that it is equipped with the wargear item "Jetbike" (or Destroyer Body for the Necrons).

For example, nobody is saying that scarabs have a Destroyer Body, just because they can move as jetbikes.

Sal.

I think by RaW you may be correct, Dreddnott. But I think unless youre playing an anal RaW player, most people wont allow the increased toughness for the wariths and destroyers to take place. The assumption comes from a normal model being mounted on a jebike, thus increasing its toughness, where wraiths and destroyers arent mounted so much as they are simply able to move that way because of the jetbike rule.

Destroyers and wraiths werent considered jetbikes in third edition, thus why you dont see any reference to incresed toughness (as does the scarab entry) in the codex.

Though the increased toughness would make me consider wraiths and destroyers more on par with the points they charge for them. But thats a point of subjective judgement regarding them and not a true reflection of designers intent.

[edit]
Upon further research, I have found what is causing this thread to be asked.



Youre finding a distinction between scarabs and wraiths/destroyers because scarabs are specifically mentioning movement and the others are not.

Destroyer lord upgrade entry:


Destroyer entry:


Wraith entry:


I am going to have to side with caution and say that the codex is very clear and you do not gain the increased toughness of a jetbike. Destroyers and wraiths remain as is and count as jetbikes for movement only as their entry specifically says.

The Wargear book shows their normal toughness under the army summary. Along with wraiths only having a 3+invuable save and no normal save. I'm pretty sure that is enough to rule this out as RAW.

It should be, too bad the wargear book stinks to high heaven, as I only have known one gamer to buy it. I refuse to myself, een though there may be hidden gems such as you pointed out.

Holy cow that would make destroyer lords T7 then right, throws a monkey wrench into assaulting that bad boy all together.... I

The BGB states that "Jetbike riders benefit from the protection offered by their bike..."

A necron doesn't ride a bike, a necron IS the bike. (If you have to think of it in those terms)

This is why a destroyer lord is unmodified toughness 6 rather than 5(6) and no unit gets any bonus' for 'riding a jetbike.'

Edit: internet gods have forsaken me.

Obviously I don't play by RAW (Terminators don't wear Terminator armour, etc) but I thought it was interesting how GW flubbed the army list entry for Wraiths and Destroyers, while making the Scarab Swarm entry far more logically rigorous.

It just bothered me that the Scarabs say they DON'T get the +1 Toughness but aren't even classified as Jetbikes in the main rulebook, while Wraiths and Destroyers ARE classified as Jetbikes and the codex doesn't include or exclude any kind of qualification about the Jetbikes rule Toughness modifier. You'd think that the need for clarification would be even higher with Wraiths and Destroyers as they are even more similar to Jetbikes than Scarab Swarms!

Another thing to consider - the Wraiths have their Jetbike movement counted under the Wraithflight: special rule, but Destroyers under the Jetbikes: special rule - wouldn't the more recent main rulebook's rules for Jetbikes override the codex in this case?

I think the problem is basically that in destroyers and wraiths, GW created some units that are unique within all of 40k. They move like Jetbikes, and can't start on the table in escalation like jetbikes, but they essentially use their "modified" toughness for instant death calculation (which is quite important in a Necron army.) I suppose that there was no easy way to do this within the rules... certainly they could have mentioned in the FAQ that destroyers go with the Toughness in their statline, but I suppose it was up to us to assume that the 4th edition rules did not give them a T boost.

Hey, by the RAW, Eldar Guardian Jetbikes should Toughness 5 for all non-instant death purposes. They are listed as 3(4), and listed as having jetbikes which increase their toughness, but it is not stated that this increase is already included in the statline.

An interesting argument for Destroyers being T5(6) is that some of the text in their army list entry clearly states that they are Immortals mounted on Destroyer bodies...Immortals are already T5...

Don't worry, guys, I'll definitely be playing my Necron units with their virgin, unadulterated stat lines.