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Hey all,
here's a 1000pt Imperial Guard list I've been thinking of, I've already got most of the infantry and the basilisk.

HQ
Senior Officer with Carapace armour, frag grenades, Iron Discipline and power weapon 71pts

Special Weapon Squad with 2 flamers and a demolition charge 63pts

Sentinel with Autocannon and extra armour 55pts

Elites

7 Ratlings 77pts

5 Hardened Veterans with 3 Plasma guns and Veteran Sergeant with Bolter 84pts

Troops

Junior Officer with Boltgun, 2 plasma gunners 61pts

Infantry Squad with Flamer and Veteran Sergeant 72pts

Infantry Squad with Flamer and Veteran Sergeant 72pts

Infantry Squad with Grenade Launcher 68pts

Junior Officer with Power Weapon, Frag Grenades and Trademark Item, 2 Melta gunners 75pts

Infantry Squad with Flamer and Veteran Sergeant 72pts

Infantry Squad with Flamer and Veteran Sergeant 72pts

Fast Attack

Sentinel with Autocannon and Extra Armour 55pts

Heavy Support

Basilisk 100pts

My main opponents will be Chaos, marines, eldar and necrons.
So...what do you think?

Doctrines:
Close Order Drill
Drop Troops
Iron Discipline
Restricted Troops: Ratlings
Restricted Troops: Special Weapon Squads

-Cheers
Librarian

It's a decent list, but i think that adding a bit more anti-tank would help. Personally I'd include a Leman Russ for that additional fire support instead of the ratling s and sentinels. It may be a fire magnet but it can do nasty things to your opponents army when used correctly.

its a nice list but i agree with J&F drop the sentinals and ratlings and put in a lemun russ
or a heavy weapons platoon

I don't know how well a russ would work, considering the amount of assault cannons a local SM player has managed to pump into 1k, not to mention a couple of local eldar players with decent amounts of bright lances.
Also, what about a couple of heavy weapons squads in my command platoon?

Cheers

-Librarian

the real question is how friendly is friendly.
around here for about 2 years we had 1000pt tournies every two weeks, at that time i was an avid guard players. the IG is one of those armies you win with before even putting it down on the table, you have to be able and willing to min/max and crunch numbers to get good to great results with the guard. the first rule of playing Guard forget the doctrines  are even in the back of the book at 1000 pts, use the standard list.

next skip though the hq troop, elite. and fast attack sections to the backish area of the book call heavy support, pick out 3 of these right now ( might i suggest the Leman russ and 2 bassies for max point effeciency) this is a guard army, any thing else in the list is there to guard these three items while they do the real work of killing MeQ by the droves.

basicly here is my tournie army, works like a champ 96% win rate, which was imporant those wins funded my eldar and blood angles armies =)P.

HQ
Jr officer and squad with lasCannon -  65
anti-tank squad 3 las cannons-  110

TROOPS
Jr officer and squad with lascannon - 65
10 guardsmen plasma and autocannon/ or ML - 85
10 guardsmen plasma and autocannon/or ml - 85

Armoured fist
10 guardsmen melta/ or plasma and missle launcher/ or ac - 85
Chimera. multi laser, hull heavy bolter, heavy stubber - 97 ( its a light tank don't let that transport garbage fool ya)

HEAVY SUPPORT
1 basilisk, indirect fire - 125
1basilisk indirect fire - 125
1 Leman russ Battle Tank hull mounted lasCannon -155 (NO SIDE SPONSONS BIG WASTE)

total 997

Thanks for your response, however I'd prefer to avoid being too vehicle reliant once again due to large amounts of anti tank weaponry fielded by opponents, not to mention the uselessness of an indirect firing basilisk in under 1500pts, 36" blindspot, on a 4x4 table, it'll get maybe one round of shooting...
Anyway, I'm also trying to avoid the stand back and shoot style of guard army . Would you recommend a unit of ogryns or rough riders?

Cheers
-Librarian

I'd say take the Rough Riders. I've played against Rough Riders and Ogryns before, but it's always the Rough Riders which actually do something. Just make sure that they're all equipped with hunting lances. Now when you charge your opponent with 10 rough riders and hit a unit of terminators with 20 strength 5 power weapon attacks the game starts to get messy. Ogryns on the other hand don't do as well, sure, they're damage sponges, but they won't do much damage, and if your enemy is intelligent enough, they'll ignore them all together meaning your damage sponges aren't doing their job anymore.

do a warrior weopon army (u know you want to) nah im not serious but depending on what type of army ur versing the ogryns can be very usefull i mean theve got strength 6 constant right so if you can actuly get them up into the enemy lines you could do a hell of a lot of damage but with the rough riders there just one trick ponys after their first charge they become useless again they revert to their normal strenth wich is like 3 or 4 but ogryns have a constant of 6 which is deadly

What if I dropped a sentinel and the ratlings for a commissar with powerfist and psyker with honorifica and force weapon as well as giving an extra plasma or meltagun to one of the command squads?

Rough Riders are decent - they are a one-trick-pony, yes, but they do the job. Ogryns have str 6 but that doesn't mean they'll do something, if he's fighting anything with a 3+ armour save he'll need something to remove them not get in there and fight for a turn before being powerfisted to death. And the rough riders are cheaper, you get more of them and  they're fast meaning you can use them for a last turn objective grab (they're also harder to reduce to below 50%).

And I like the idea of taking those extra characters in place of the ratlings, it gives your character a bit more anti-tank potential now with that powerfist.

just because it can indirect fire dosen't mean it has too.    there is no min range if you shoot them directly.  tanks and pie plates are the IG ( well at least if you want good results), you might want to look into the lost and the damn i think they will do what your wanting to do better.

No can do, LatD players already pretty much outnumber guard players in my area.
What is the point of 50pts of upgrades that an intelligent opponent can negate by deploying a his army slightly further forwards than normal?
I got into guard because I fought someone who used no vehicles other than a chimera and a couple of sentinels in 1000pts, he smashed me and one of my friends who was using a chaos army. His army was unique compared to the common tank commander style which you say is the only way to win...
A few more infantry, sure. Another Veteran squad instead of the ratlings, maybe. But I don't want to use more vehicles, the point of this list is its for FRIENDLY games, not to win tournaments.

Cheers
-Librarian

Ok.... First a few pointers. Guard can be palyed successfully three different ways.

1)Tons of tanks, three hellhounds, three russ type tanks, chimeras, ect. Overload armored targets

2)All infantry, Tons of bodies, tons of heavy weapons, tons of specials, maybe a few drop trooping vet squads for killy and objective grabbing fun.

3)Drop troop guard. Again, tons of bodies, and at 1000 points no tanks. (1850 two bassies makes this list mean) Since it looks like you are leaning towards this option let me let you in on a few tips.

a)Sentinals are only taken to add improved comms to the list. Multi laser sentinal with improved comms and that is it. Anything else is a waste
b)Take three vet squads, load them up with max plasma and keep them min sized. You may want to make one of your vet squads a three melta squad
c)Use all 4 slots for special weapons in your command squads. (this is a good place to put 3 flamers, why not 4? Because they get in each others way when deep striking)
d)Plasma in your friend put it in pretty much every line squad
e)Use reminant squads, and stick a flamer in them.
f)Take a look at the last chancers interesting way to get demo charges in the army
g)Special weapon squads are generally overpriced for what they do, but if you got the spare doc point the one demo charge two flamer squad is nice
f)All other upgrades are junk, your guys land, they shoot and they die. Stay away from vet sgts, voxs, power fists, chem inhalers, warrior weapons ect.

You mentioned you will be playing on a 4X4 table? Basilisk is going to be pretty useless as its too weak to fire directly with the amunt of anti tank you mention your opponents will be sure to field.

My suggestion is to drop the two sentinals and bassy, and put two more vet squads in, then add some las cannons to your infantry squads with remaining points. I also would drop every power weapon(maybe excepting your commander, but even those points will proly be better spent by contribuiting to another Lascannon). In my experience guard HTH is based on the number fo attacks, not the special equp. they are outfitted with.


Doing this gives you an all inf. army that will not be hindered at all by escalation, adds more special weapons(three squads of yummy plasma doom from vetrans), gives you some long range Lascannon power to deal with enemy armor, MC, and high save infantry. (in 1000 pts you shoudl try to get at least 3 LC to make them effective against one target per turn.) This would give you a core to stand and shoot from your table edge, while the other half of your army drops in from the skies to put all their special weapons to use.

I think keeping the snipers is a good idea as they can take on MC and other high toughness targets easier than heavy weapons can. Wraithlords HATE ratling snipers!

snipers suck here is why.

Yeah I am a tough wraithlord, your 10 snipers put 4 wounds on me... boo hoo hoo, now I just take my 3+ save.... I took a single wound!

There is virtually nothing with high toughness and low save in the game. If they were common sniper rifles would make since, but since everythign that is t6 or higher has at least a 4+ save.... Welll.....

Good point Foil! I guess I have gotten used to my new pathfinders and ap1 on 5+. Ratlings have taken down both my wraithords in 3 turns before, though that was probobly just a case of the dice favoring my opponent and me failing all my saves(which seems common for me).

1)Tons of tanks, three hellhounds, three russ type tanks, chimeras, ect. Overload armored targets

Once again, no good, too much anti tank

2)All infantry, Tons of bodies, tons of heavy weapons, tons of specials, maybe a few drop trooping vet squads for killy and objective grabbing fun.

Not too fond of heavy weapons in infantry squads.

3)Drop troop guard. Again, tons of bodies, and at 1000 points no tanks. (1850 two bassies makes this list mean)

Sounds about right.


I'd prefer not to use the last chancers just because it doesn't fit in with my regiment's fluff and I'd rather not change it to accommodate.
Veteran sergeants are just there so that if some squad members do survive the drop(or if I end up playing an Alpha level mission) they get to test off of Ld9.
I think I'll keep the sniper rifles (once again from a fluff perspective).

I don't particularly care if this list would obliterate whatever it fights, but rather, would it be fun to play against?

Cheers
-Librarian

Not too fond of heavy weapons in infantry squads!?!? Not to fond of heavy weapons in infantry squads!?! Dude you are playing the wrong army then. I suggest you check out nids, or necrons. Guard is all about the heavy weapons. They are the teeth of the guard army.

For your question, Your army would be a very fun one to play against. I always enjoy getting a victorious slaughter when I play someone.

The guy who got me into guard had no heavy weapons in his infantry squads and the only reason he hasn't won any GT's is because people find his drop guard list cheesy.
Also, was that victorious slaughter really necessary or do you just enjoy being a prick?
I'd be inclined to agree though, I most likely will lose a few games, I mean, my record so far of fairly close losses, draws and wins is definitely not going to hold up.

I agree with Librarian here, most games in tournaments are won by sportsmanship rather than victorious slaughters (and i'm pretty sure librarian said this was meant to be friendly, so i don't think he wants to be killing the hobby for other players by being a prick). I've played against guard armies that don't use heavy weapons, believe me, it takes more tactical prowess to use an army like that correctly than it does to take the same old guard army you see everyday that just sits back and shoots. When an experienced player makes an army of massed lasguns and charges towards you, you get creamed.

Posted By Librarian on 04/26/2007 12:53 AM

Not too fond of heavy weapons in infantry squads.

WTF?  Why are you even playing guard?  Play drop pod marines if this is your style.

Let me point out that all of your regular opponents, CSM, SMurfs, Eldar, and Necrons have S4 AP5 weapons as their basic infantry rifle. All the basic troops you will fight (besides eldar) will hit on 3+, wound on 3+, and deny you a save.

Take it from me, as a Dark Eldar and Lost/Damned player, your troops will be shredded by bolters/shurikens/gauss. (perhaps some stormtroopers are in order?)

Also, know that tank shells are glorious against heavy infantry (marines, necrons) because they wound on a 2+ and deny an armor save. Power armor protects against tank shells no more than flakk armor. Also, you may want a piece of artillery to fight those necrons: Earthshaker cannons are the best single weapons against necrons in the game (double toughness = no "we'll be back", just like marines, they're as good as conscripts while under fire from one of these babies).

Finally, it's a *female dog* to pay for, prep, and paint all those minis.

Good luck with your new army, and I hope to hear some good stories of your battles!

Why the hell are you people so unwilling to see that an army list can work in more ways than one!?!

@ Rainsford: I also play dark eldar, I know they get shredded, however, my record with them (raider free) wasn't terrible. I understand a russ would increase my marine killing power, however, I honestly doubt it would survive the first 2 turns against most of my opponents...especially seeing as tau activity in the area is picking up. And on the topic of painting/prepping etc, I've got all except for 10 of the infantry ready for gaming...

Seriously, I asked for any advice, not "play drop pod marines"...I would, if it was anywhere near the style of list I'm looking for. Eg, for 160pts you get 8 marines with a plasma gun deep striking compared to 25 guardsmen doing the same thing. However, one bad scatter for the marines and you've lost 160pts, with the guard, that scatter will lose 40-60pts, put simply the ability for a squad to deep strike off of the board without me losing many victory points is a big reason for me doing drop guard.
I prefer the fact that I won't just have one squad arrive by itself and be shot apart. Sure marines are more durable but once again, 1 squad of 8 models compared to 2 squads of 10 and a squad of 5...
I understand that I probably won't win many games in a competitive setting, but then again, as I stated in the title, this is for FRIENDLY games. So, please stop telling me to do marines or a tank heavy army and in the immortal words of Jack Black don't be a douche...

Cheers
-Librarian

i totaly agree sure lasguns arnt as power full as bolters but theres alot more of them.

stick to your list the only thing i might take instead of those veterans is some armagedon pattern sentinals whith armoured crew compartments just for taking out pesky monoliths (blair) and the like

No can do, they only stock the Cadian and Mars/Catachan pattern boxes around here...

Oh and by the way...HOLY CRAP!

Someone giving me advice other than take a tank company...

Cheers
-Librarian

Posted By Librarian on 04/26/2007 12:53 AM
Not too fond of heavy weapons in infantry squads.

Then play a different army. Guard are all about infantry-based heavy weapons. No unit is more important in a Guard army than the basic Infantry Squad, and to not equip them for maximum damage is a terrible mistake, and will result in terrible lists.

BYE

Fellow, you asked for advice and I gave it. I said what I said because you are going to get beaten, and beated often with a list like that. When someone startes an army, spends a lot of money, puts together a pile of crap and then gets beaten 10 times in a row they tend to be pissed off. They tend to stop playing. Not good for the hobby. I am sorry I hurt your little feelings but the guard codex allows someone to create thousands of different armies, but only a small handful that give you a fair chance against an opponent.

It's a simple case of 'We cannot help those who will not help themselves'.

You posted a list. We look at this list and went 'This won't work - get some heavy weapons in there'. You said 'I don't like heavy weapons, so no I won't do that'.

What more do you want from us? Players like Foil and myself, people with years of experience with Guard, have given you our verdicts (the list is hopeless, fix it or you will lose games and lose them badly), and you chose to ignore that. Don't berate us for attempting to help you.

If you had no intention of changing anything, why post at all? Nothing is more annoying than someone posting a list, asking everyone what they think, and then refusing to consider any of the changes. It's worse when they attack the people giving the advice.

BYE

Librarian, There's a friendly forum (Bootcamp) where I'm sure you'll be praised for your genius and thorough knowledge of an effective guard army.... But, not here. People here actually know what they are talking about and you should listen. Guard armies need: heavy weapons, tanks, strong leadership bubbles, and lots of infantry.

If your not firing indirectly, then you can't expect an armor 12 front vehicle to live at all in the enviroment you are describing... heck run a leman russ in place of the basilisk, maybe since its a short board run a demolisher. With either version the armor 14 will let you do this run and gun style you are looking for, if they pour all their firepower into the russ, thats great your infantry get to walk up and hit them with flashlights.