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I am interested in making an "armoured cavalry" list.

Now, I will either be using Imperial Armour Vol 1 Battlegroup list, or the GW Website list - what would you guys recommend as the better to make an armoured list with?

I have a few questions before I begin:

1) Are Armoured Fists Squads useful in an Armoured Cavalry lsit? Seems like they might be - can take & hold objectives, but doesn't it detracts from the all-Tank theme?

2) does the Conqueror have a place - can move and fire with lots of guns, but is it needed, when there are so many battlecannons around?

3) Is a Griffon/Medusa/Basilisk or two useful - provide covering fire, but again, doesn't it detract from "pure" tanks?

If anyone has any background info on modern "Cavalry" organisations, could you please direct me to it?

Army lists to follow.

Thanks in advance.

Personally, I'd go with the Battle Group list from IA:1. The doctrine to fire the main gun twice in one turn lends itself well to an alpha strike.

5+ Russes = 10+ Battle Cannon shots on turn 1 could be a significant emotional event for your opponent.

The Valks and Vultures also offer the Air Cav option.

1) Mech Infantry to support the tanks is definitely true to the theme. I can't really say on optimal efficiency, but I do use them.

2) I prefer standard Russies to the Conq...

3) An Arty battery doesn't detract from the them IMO. I'd definitely invest in a few indirect shooters to go after JSJ (Tau) and other terrain huggers.

Definately battle group. The ability to layout two pie plates per tank on the first turn is ridiculous to watch. The air cav options are nice, but I generally find that I dont have the points to include them unless it's at 2000 points or above. Below that and it's difficult to fill out any amored list with enough tanks to make it effective. They are really nice models and it can be fluffy to drop some storm troopers out of a valk, though their effectiveness might be less than just buying more tanks.

Armored fists are a decent inclusion. I personally go with two small units of storm troopers just because I love the models and they're pretty fluffy. I cant imagine any tank division that would go into battle without even minimal infantry support. Chimeras also help out in some roles that armored lists are lacking, namely against mech skimmer armies a la eldar and tau. Russes alone simply dont have the volume of shots to take down skimmers reliably. Granted, it's harder for newer versions of eldar to go through AV14 as they pack lots of strength 6 weapons that wont scare you unless they can get side or rear armor. Anyways, chimeras with autocannon turrents can help out in this regard. Same thing goes for salamander scout vehicles if you'd prefer an all tank list with no infantry whatsoever.

Conquerors are fine tanks, but I think you'd be better served with vanquishers. If you make your HQ a vanquisher he can benefit from the improved BS. Also an elite tank ace makes a perfect spot for vanquishers, again because of the higher BS. The biggest weakness of an armored list is its ability to destroy armor. It sounds counter intuitive, but battle cannons are really not that great at taking out other tanks. Even though it's normally not optimal, I'd consider putting some hull lascannons on your russes just to help out against armor. I know it goes against the standard 3 heavy bolter load out, but with that many russes and any chimeras from your fist squads you've got tons of anti infantry.

If you want artillery I'd suggest basilisks. One or two can deal with tau and eldar that like to use assault moves to run out of LOS. Most modern tank divisions include artillery and support sections so it's plenty "fluffy" in real world armor, not sure about warhammer 40k fluff though.

Tank divisions are organised quite a lot like infantry divisions. They have a single command tank then a couple squads of "troops", usually 1-5 tanks per squad, that report to the command. They have a great deal of support elements, recon, anti-air, and typically have affiliated infantry units. The infantry maybe a part of the tank division, but usually it is a seperate division that works in tandem to hold positions once the tanks have cleared them. In world war II these divisions were usually mechanized to keep up with the rapid tank advance, so there's your fluff support for armored fists. Since they stemmed from cavalry they tend to be smaller than infantry divisions, simply because most countries didnt have that many horses and they were used for their mobility and impact power, more than their ability to hold objectives.

Modern military organization can be found all over the web. I'd start with wikipedia or just a google search. Another site that you might want to check for tank info beyond and including organization would be the Work in Progress board hosted by invisionfree. They have lots of people that scratch build tanks which can give you some inspiration for your tanks. They also have a bunch of tank references stickied if that helps. As far as warhammer tank fluff, the Chapter Approved 2004 has the original armored company list and contains a couple pages on fluff, organization, and tactics (for whatever those are worth).

1845 points gets you 9 Leman Russ w/Slick Loader + a Command Vanquisher w/Slick Loader.

On turn one you can empty 20 pie plates into the enemy. I don't know many things that can survive that kind've firepower.

BYE

Hey,

 

Saw a lot of good advice on army structure so I thought I'd offer some musings on modern military structure......

You specifically asked about Armored Cavalry, which, at least in the US Army, serves a different function from regular Armor, Infantry, or Mechanized Infantry formations.

Armored Cavalry fills a roll that is best described as  "recconaisance with a heavy punch".  They are a mix of tanks and infantry fighting vehicles (also known as APC's - think Chimera's), but they do not carry much infantry.  Instead they carry a few infantry scouts.

Armored Cavalry regiments were intended to serve as screening forces for Armored and mechanized divisions, but they have a great deal of integrated support built into their structure and are quite capable as offensive units in their own right.

A comparison to other units would work as follows:

A standard platoon in the US Army is comprised of 4 vehicles, be they tanks or APC's.

A company is typically 3 platoons, plus 2 command vehicles (and associated support vehicles) for a normal total of 14 tanks in a pure armor company or 14 APC's in a pure Mech infantry company.  Normally however, units are task assigned in order to blend capabilities, so a tank company would usually give up 1 platoon of tanks to a mech company, and receive 1 platoon of APC's (and their infantry) in return.

An Armored Cavalry regiment does not use the standard Company/Battalion structure.  Instead they use the old horse cavalry designations of Troop and Squadron respectively.  A Troop is the equivalent of a Company, but includes 4 platoons instead of 3 - 2 tank platoons and 2 APC platoons - plus the 2 command tanks for a total of 10 tanks and 8 APC's

The Squadron is analogous to a Battalion except that again, it works on the principle of 4's.  A battalion would normally have 3 companies.  A Squadron has 4 Troops, so at the Squadron level, you have an almost 2 to 1increase in size over a battalion.

Keep in mind, however, that the APC's in an armored Cav Unit do not carry regular infantry. 

A regular platoon of 4 APC's in a mech infantry unit carries an Infantry platoon - really think of it as an infantry platoon with it's own attached transports.  About 20 - 30 dismounted infantry plus vehicle crews.

An Armored Cavalry Scout platoon with 4 APC's would typically carry about 8 to 12 dissmounted cavalry scouts, whose job would be to conduct recconaisance on foot in advance of the mechanized elements, or where stealth was needed.

An Armored Cavalry Regiment contains 3 Armored Cavalry Squadrons, plus an Aviation Squadron of Attack Helicopters, and other associated support elements (artillery batteries etc...) but does not typically contain any regular mechanized infantry.

That doesn't mean you couldn't include them in your IG force,  Just wanted to give you some flavor.  In IG, you have to bring Infantry to bring Chimera's, and if you want an Armored Cavalry feel, you need to have a mix of Chimera's and Russ's (of whatever varient).

An all Tank force would be an Armored spearhead, not Armored Cavalry.  I'd try bringing Mechanized support squads for the regular IG HQ platoon, these smaller 6 man squads - especially the special weapon squads, would feel more like Cav Scouts than infantry when tossed in the mix...

just some thoughts