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A question came up yesterday during a Tau vs Eldar game, and we were not sure at all what would be right....

Situation : an Eldar unit shoots at a Tau HQ unit composed of several (say 4) Crisis Battlesuits including O'Shovah and some (say 3) Shield Drones. The processes of hits / wounds / saves result in several wounds (say 4). [I'm not sure about the exact numbers]

Question : how should the Tau player remove casualties ?
Possible solutions :

1. Remove 2 2-wounds Crisis models, on the basis of the BGB p27 rule (When a unit contains several multiple-Wound models, and those models take wounds, you must remove whole multiple-Wound models from the unit as casualties where possible - wounds may not be spread around to avoid removing models. [...])

2. Remove 3 1-wound Drone models and take one wound from a Crisis, on the basis of the same rule, focusing on the last sentence (wounds may not be spread around to avoid removing models)

3. Remove any combination, because the particular situation is covered neither by the p26 rule (*) , nor by the p27 rule, and those appear to apply to mutually exclusive situations;, so the principle of free choice of casualty removal by the player is the only applicable rule left.

(*) Assuming that the models in the unit have one wound each, one model is removed for each wound inflicted. [...]

We did not spend a lot of time on this, I preferred to go by solution 3 because it was the least unfavorable to the Tau, and I was feeling much too uncertain to push for either of the first two solutions...

Also : would this be covered by any special Tau rule ? Couldn't find in the Codex, and I also looked at the Tau Empire FAQ, but it's not really covered... Am I missing something ?

Thank you for your help...

Ok this is an OPINION only as I do not have my dex on hand BUT... Shield drones... aren't they always the first to go in the case of Tau? It looks like you are going by the main rulebook, try looking through the Tau dex to see if you can find the answer there about shield drones as wargear or what have you.

Posted By DaIronGob on 06/01/2007 6:34 AM
Ok this is an OPINION only as I do not have my dex on hand BUT... Shield drones... aren't they always the first to go in the case of Tau? It looks like you are going by the main rulebook, try looking through the Tau dex to see if you can find the answer there about shield drones as wargear or what have you.

Yeah I tried that !  I also had read something to that effect on a forum, but with no page reference...  I can't find anything in the Tau Emprire codex...

Okies.

The rules says that each model have to carry a wound each before they can be given a second wound to save or not-save.

Example 1. A team of three crisis suits equipped with 2 shield drones is wounded by 3 lascannons and a boltgun (all from one squad)

You apply two lacannon wounds to each drone, one lascannon to a crisis suit and the boltgun to another crisis suit.

Drones get their invulerable save as normal, the lascannon hit applied to the crisis suit would cause an instant kill and the crisis suit given a boltgun hit would be able to save with his normal save.

Example 2. A team of three crisis suits with "no" drones and 1x shield generator are wounded by a lascannon and 3xboltguns. (all from one squad)

you give each suit a boltgun wound and give the lascannon wound to the suit with shield generator.

Lets say that two of the boltgun wounds are negated by a succesful save, but the boltgun and lascannon save was unsuccesful.

The lascannon would cause one suit in the squad to be instantly killed, and another suit would have to take the boltgun wound, even if you had origanlly applied it to the suit that failed, it would have to be placed onto a model as you remove whole models first.

Therefore, if a suit already had a wound and got wound by the above, the boltgun wound would have to go on the suit that was already wounded and the lascannon would have to remove a whole unwounded model.

Hope it helps

Posted By hellsguardian316 on 06/01/2007 6:50 AM
Hope it helps

Thanks, hellsguardian !  Well, yes... and no !  My question is in fact much simpler : it is only about casualty removal, not about saves...  I am looking at the situation after all saves have been made, and we have to see which models get to be removed or take a wound off their total.

Assume that all the hits come from Warp Spider Deathspinners (all same S, no AP, same D6 save for the Crisis suits and the Drones).  I think in that case there is no save order issue (but there may instant kill issues...)

okies, I get you.

Right then, when a weapon causes instant kill you remove whole models, when a weapon causes a wound it has to be placed on a model that already has a wound or if no one has a wound yet, it can be placed on whoever you like.

Drones always have same save and toughness as the model they are attached to, so with your example you are right, saves aren't really an issue.

As for casulty removal, lets say the death spinner doesn't cause instant death. Lets say you failed four saves. You could either lose two drones, lose a wound on a suit and then be forced to put another wound on the same suit (killing it). Or lose a drone, lose a suit and put a wound on another suit. Or lose two suits.

When working out the next round of wounds. you would have to put wounds onto models that already have a wound so that whole models are removed. You can't have three suits with a wound each for example, one suit would have to be removed with another suit carrying the third wound.

Thank you, hellsguardian !

So actually we were right in choosing solution 3 (that's the one closest to what you describe).  Great !

I fully abide by that, but I must say it is a strange case where two precise rules (one for units with single wound models, another for units with multiple wound models) leave a rules vacuum for mixed units, so that none of the precise rules apply...  Yesterday I had initially thought (intuitively, not with analytical thinking!) that the rule on p27 indicated that there was a "higher principle", namely "wounds may not be spread around to remove models", and that this principle would cover the vacuum for mixed units (because it is also implicit in the p26 rule for single-wound model units).  But I agree that when we apply the step by step approach of RAW, the vacuum stays...

It's also funny to see how the S / AP / T / Sv combinations can interact to produce very different outcomes, because of the choices left to the models' owner in applying wounds to different models, first at the saving step, then at the casualty removal step.  It gets very intricate when applied to units mixing single- and multiple- wound models...  (I guess I'll stick to Eldars, I'm too dumb to play Tau ! :S   )

Hellsguardian is missing an important fact.

The rules about removing multi-wound creatures clearly only applies when multi-wound creatures are actually allocated a wound (". . .and those models take a wound. . .").

If your unit contains any single wound models (like Drones) then they may always be allocated a wound even if your unit contains a wounded multi-wound creature.

It is just that if you go to allocate a wound to a multi-wound creature in the unit and one already has a wound then you must allocate the new wound to that model.


Also MurekZar, you should check out this thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/15/view/topic/postid/110704/Default.aspx


for some insight on how people play this situation differently when it involves instant death wounds.

Yes very true, could have explained myself a little better, thanx for the assist (thumbs up)