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These are just a few units I thought might work, was wondering what you all thought.

unit 1

Sentinel Squad
3x sentinels w/ multilasers - 135 pts

I know this squad isn’t too creative, but it seems decent to me considering it can move and shoot at 36” and it isn’t too expensive. It can fight both infantry + light armour, and with the way walker squads work (1 walker must be destroyed before the next one takes damage [I’m not 100% sure that’s the actual rule if it’s not please tell me]) if it was placed in cover it could have some decent durability.    

 
unit 2

Veteran Squad – 130 pts
Vet officer w/ lasgun
1 vet w/ plasma gun 1 vet w/ lascannon
7 vets w/ lasguns
Special Equipment: Chameleon

I feel this squad could work pretty well if you have the extra doctrine to buy chameleon.  Using its free ability to infiltrate you could deploy it in a building, where it would have an effective 3+ invulnerable save.  In many ways it would be like a 6 man las plas squad that space marines use, only it has the ability to infiltrate, and has 10 3+ invulnerable saves instead of 6 3+ normal saves and 4 + invulnerable saves.  I think its only weakness would be moral and flame template weapons.

 
unit 3

Ratling Squad – 66 pts
6 x sniper rifles

This is another not so creative squad but since it’s almost never used I figured I’d ask about it.  If you have the extra doctrine I feel this could be a good choice, you can infiltrate them away from your force so that any aggressive push from your opponent, would not bring your opponents troops closer to them. (unless your opponent splits up his force and sends a squad over to fight them, which imo could only work to your advantage.) If they are deployed in a building or a bunker they benefit from 3+ cover saves, and have the ability to be pinned instead of retreat.  As far as shooting goes with 6 shots, they would kill 5/6 of a meq and 5/3 of imperial guardsmen.  That means almost every turn whatever they shot at would have to take a pinning test.  There downside is that the damage they do is done over the full 6 turns, and they would not be able to do much against an early rush from fast moving units.    

 

unit 4

Special Weapons Support Squad – 45pts
5 x lasguns 1 x demolition charge.
Drop Troops

This squads function would be simple enough, deep strike, throw the charge then either waist one of your opponents squads shooting phases if your opponent chooses to shoot at them; or if he doesn't, assault one of his shooty forces next turn and hopefully tie them up.  Its downside would be its inconsistency, but at 45 pts who really cares.   

 
unit 5

Storm Trooper Squad – 100 pts
sergeant w/ hell pistol + ccw
5 x hellguns 2 x plasma guns

This is another squad that is almost never used but could work in the correct circumstances.  If you could get this squad into forward cover you would be able to fight off most meq builds (like the 6 man las plas squad) and also any light armour.  Their downside is their low toughness, and that they are obvious targets for the enemy since they are not too much harder to kill then guardsmen, however if you used 2-3 of these squads and hid a command squad somewhere within 12” of them, you might be able to stage a successful offensive.

 
unit 6

Leman Russ Demolisher – 173 pts
hull heavy bolter + side sponson heavy flamers
extra armor + smoke launchers. 

With 14 front armor this could make a decent attack tank the key would be to push it forward fast, and if possible behind cover then pop out, and fire your demolisher cannon at a tank or somthing, and then next turn speed up to some infantry and double heavy flamer them (not to mention your heavy bolter).  The downside to this unit is that it costs a lot, and that to use the sponsons you have to get close to your enemy which is when most anti tank weaponry excels. Also it is weak because the standard 3x heavy bolter build is better in a lot of ways.  However if up against the right opponent and on the right map, I feel this squad could take far more then its points in both light and heavy infantry.

 
unit 7

Armoured Fist squad (180 pts) [170 pts]
(Infantry squad w/ Lascannon + plasma gun)
[Infantry squad w/ Autocannon + plasma gun]
chimera w/ heavy bolter + multilaser  

The reason I put this squad up here is because there is a lot of disagreement over whether or not this is a valid squad to take.  I feel that if you keep the price of the chimera down by not spending points upgrades then it could work.  It gives the IG player the choice to move some troops up the board quickly or to allow those troops to deploy with the infantry platoons, and just use the chimeras as light tanks.  Its major weakness is that its an 85 pt tank with 12 front armor and no incredible weapon like the inferno cannon to justify its pt cost.  On the other hand its multi laser + heavy bolter can make up for its points over the coarse of 4 turns of shooting.

I’m interested to know which of these squads you think are good, which ones are crap, and which ones are bad now but could be modified (a bit) to be made good. 

Any ideas/opinions/whatever would be appreciated.

 

 

Sentinel Squad
3x sentinels w/ multilasers - 135 pts

You're right, this isn't very original. That said, there's nothing wrong with Sentinels, and Multi-Lasers are excellent and often overlooked weapons.

One thing I will say is avoid squadroning them wherever possible. If you've got three free FA slots, take three separate Sentinels, rather than one unit of three. There's no sense in letting a lucky volley of Heavy Bolter fire wipe out or seriously damage three Sentinels.

You have 4 places you can add Sentinels in your army, make use of them.

Veteran Squad – 130 pts
Vet officer w/ lasgun
1 vet w/ plasma gun 1 vet w/ lascannon
7 vets w/ lasguns
Special Equipment: Chameleon

You can't consider a squad like this outside of the context of the rest of the army, mainly because of the presence of Cameloline. It's not as though you can just give it to these guys.

The problem with giving Veterans Heavy Weapons is that they're targets. They're 8 points each for something that is no more durable than a 6 point Guardsmen, meaning that your opponent gets more VP's for killing them and will target them first because of this.

Vets are better served in small units with either 3 Meltas or 3 Plasmas. Anything else and they're one Target Priority test from being a target.

Ratling Squad – 66 pts
6 x sniper rifles

Sniper Rifles are junk. To cause any real damage you need to take a full unit of 10, which costs you 110 points. You can also get 3 Lascannons in an AT squad for 110, and they'll do more damage than 10 Sniper Rifles. Moreover it doesn't cost you a Doctrine Point to take AT squads.

Leave the Ratlings at home. Like Ogryn, Storm Troopers, Enginseers and all Advisors, they're not worth wasting your time on.

Special Weapons Support Squad – 45pts
5 x lasguns 1 x demolition charge.
Drop Troops

SWS's are nice units. Most people usually add two flamers or two meltaguns to the mix. I usually stick to flamers and use them as counter-assault. Drop Troopers work as well, but be careful as a bad scatter can leave you out of Demo Charge range, meaning they'll die before doing anything.

Storm Trooper Squad – 100 pts
sergeant w/ hell pistol + ccw
5 x hellguns 2 x plasma guns

What is this squad going to do? They have two few guns to fight anything off, and Sv4+ isn't hard to break through. For less points than this you can get 3 BS4 Plasma Guns in a Vet unit. Far more useful.

Leman Russ Demolisher – 173 pts
hull heavy bolter + side sponson heavy flamers
extra armor + smoke launchers. 

The thing about a Demolisher is that if the enemy is within 24", you should be firing your Demolisher Cannon. It's the reason you buy the tank, so why pass up an S10 AP2 Ordnance blast for two heavy flamers that can't even fire at the same target due to their positioning.

The idea behind a Demolisher's secondary weapons is that they allow the Demolisher to have an effect upon the game outside of 24". This is why the Lascannon/Plasma Cannon combo reigns supreme or, at worst, the 3 HB option is another useful uprade. The LC/PC combo allows the tank to reach out and touch heavy infantry (MEQ's, Terminators) at 25"-36". The Lascannon also helps a little bit in the first turn or so when things are closing. Three Heavy Bolters do the same sort of job, but against a different target type.

But if they're within 24", fire up the cannon, not the flamers.

Armoured Fist squad (180 pts) [170 pts]
(Infantry squad w/ Lascannon + plasma gun)
[Infantry squad w/ Autocannon + plasma gun]
chimera w/ heavy bolter + multilaser 

That's actually pretty normal. And I agree, keeping the Chimera free from upgrades is a good way of not breaking the bank. Extra Armour and RTM's in CityFight however.

BYE

I'd agree with all of the above. The SWS is a tough sell for me, as it takes a doctrine selection for two small units that can, in some ways, be subbed with other units. The only really unique thing about them is the demo charge, and it really only comes into play against certain armies (blood angels and necrons come to mind).

If you like to gamble and throw some randomness into your games, they can work wonders. Because I usually drop them to kill hard infantry units, I throw in a pair of meltaguns.

I prefer the 3 HB sponsons on the demolisher. If I can't shoot the main gun, I may as well try to move to a position to set up a shot for the next turn, and the HBs let me fire while I do that. The plasma/lascannon mix can work well if you've got lots of deepstriking terminators in your area, but I find myself tempted to force it into an anti-tank role at times when it's armament doesn't really suit it to that at range. Keep it focused on anti-infantry stuff and let the line squads kill the tanks.

I like sticking heavy stubbers on my chimeras. It's a bit pricey, but it does dramatically raise the firepower of the vehicle. I'd think about the role you view the vehicle taking before adding a stubber, though. It won't help much against enemy vehicles, but it will add a decent amount of punch against enemy infantry.

I'm not sure on the sentinals. Part of me likes the multilaser setup, as they are cheap but pack enough firepower to threaten most units, but part of me still thinks they are too vulnerable. Autocannons seem like a better option to me, as they can threaten more and get an extra 12" range. That lets them snipe from afar and limit the enemies return fire. HBMC is dead-on, though, about using all your slots and splitting those things up as much as possible. Makes them safer, more deployment steps and more scoring units.

Having just started using Autocannon Chimeras, I will say that the 48" range does make a massive difference. I always thought that Autocannons and Multi-Lasers were roughly the same. One had less strength and more shots, the other more strength and less shots. As I took ACs in squads and M-L's on Chimeras and Sentinels, the range was never an issue.

Then I started playing with my shiny new FW turrets, and once you stick an Autocannon onto a mobile platform like a Chimera or Sentinel, things change very different. The ability to move and then reach out and touch someone from 48" away is an incredible boon. I wouldn't take a Stubber on an Autocannon Chimera, but I can see the merits of taking Autocannons over Multi-Lasers on Sentinels. I've got 3 AC Sentinels that I've never really used (always stuck to my trusty Multi-Lasers!), but I'm going to give them a whirl soon.

As far as Special Weapon Squads go, I once built an army around them. Two SWS's with 2 Flamers/Demo Charge, plus 3 Cyclops Demo Vehicles. This was in a Mechanised army that had about 5 other squads, a big block of Conscripts, and a pair of Demolishers. The power of 5 Demo-Charges to stop any assault dead cannot be underestimated. One Demo-Charge nailed a Defiler, one of them cored a 16-man 'Zerker unit reducing them down to 4. Other units were utterly obliterated by the Demo/2 Flamer combo. Very powerful.

It's the AP2 that makes the difference. Nothing is safe.

BYE

I've been playing with autocannon sentinels for a long time, and I've said it before an increase of 12" on your gun can not be underestimated. As Sentinels mostly run up flanks, the S7 of the autocannons is even more valueable against vehicle's side armors.

Posted By epidemicHEART on 06/24/2007 12:17 PM

These are just a few units I thought might work, was wondering what you all thought.

unit 1

Sentinel Squad
3x sentinels w/ multilasers - 135 pts

I know this squad isn’t too creative, but it seems decent to me considering it can move and shoot at 36” and it isn’t too expensive. It can fight both infantry + light armour, and with the way walker squads work (1 walker must be destroyed before the next one takes damage [I’m not 100% sure that’s the actual rule if it’s not please tell me]) if it was placed in cover it could have some decent durability.    

 
unit 2

Veteran Squad – 130 pts
Vet officer w/ lasgun
1 vet w/ plasma gun 1 vet w/ lascannon
7 vets w/ lasguns
Special Equipment: Chameleon

I feel this squad could work pretty well if you have the extra doctrine to buy chameleon.  Using its free ability to infiltrate you could deploy it in a building, where it would have an effective 3+ invulnerable save.  In many ways it would be like a 6 man las plas squad that space marines use, only it has the ability to infiltrate, and has 10 3+ invulnerable saves instead of 6 3+ normal saves and 4 + invulnerable saves.  I think its only weakness would be moral and flame template weapons.

unit 4

Special Weapons Support Squad – 45pts
5 x lasguns 1 x demolition charge.
Drop Troops

This squads function would be simple enough, deep strike, throw the charge then either waist one of your opponents squads shooting phases if your opponent chooses to shoot at them; or if he doesn't, assault one of his shooty forces next turn and hopefully tie them up.  Its downside would be its inconsistency, but at 45 pts who really cares.   

Just to add a note or two, one thing I've found very useful for those multilaser sentinels is to give them Hunter/Killer Missiles. If you kill one vehicle at range with them on the opening volley, it's worth it. And yes, spread them out!!

 

Re Hardened Vets, I've tried the lascannon/plasmagun approach. Bluntly put, once your opponent realizes what they are, they die. Far better to stick to three meltas/plasmas (Meltas for me) and use Drop Troops or Infiltrate to alolow them to kill something big before they die. I run squads of five men with three meltas as suicide squads.

SW squads. I use them the same way, sometimes with meltas/flamers, but lately without (points issue). One thing I do tho is to give them all pistol/ccw. That way if no Deep Strike is available, they just hang around in my lines and wait for a chance to counterassault.

What about grenade launchers? I think they are often overlooked although they dont compare much in the world of powerarmor but a mobile 24" weapon that can go between S6 and S3 blast can do something.

The only problem with the GL is that at 8 points, they don't compare well against plasma (or melta). For 2 points more, you gain +1 S and -2 AP, as well as 2 shots within 12". If your deep striking, 12" is plenty of room to get a small 5 men squad inserted, so the range is not an issue. After hundreds of drops, I've lost an entire squad only once.

I like Grenade Launchers. I've actually had Grenade Launchers win me games in the past (4 Frags vs a Seer Council, enough to force them to run off the table, and as it was a USF list, they had to deploy the Warp Gates at the edge of the table and the game went downhill for him from there).

But the problem as will said, is that they're far to expensive. 8 points? Are you kidding? For two points more I exchange S6 AP4 for A7 SP2. They're worth 5 points, not 8.

BYE