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Ordnance has been pretty effectively nerfed in 4th ed when shooting at Vehicles.  So how about

When shooting at Vehicles you make a BS roll.  If you miss, it scatters.  If you roll a hit, it scatters anyway.  If you would normally roll 2d6 you now roll only 1d6.

Or, even better.  Get rid of the "hit" marker on the scatter die altogether.

If you would normally roll 1d6 scatter, and you make a BS check it's a hit.  If you miss it's a scatter like always, ignoring the hit marker on the scatter die.

If you would normally roll 2d6 scatter, and you make a BS check you now only roll 1d6 scatter.  If you miss it's a scatter like always, both ways ingoring the hit marker on the scatter die.

Alternatively, Battle Cannons can come with a 2d6 AP shell like the Vanquisher that requires a BS check.

I don't see any real problem with implementing this. It will encourage people to aim for the center of their vehicle target rather than trying to clip it with the hole and get some bonus collateral damage on squads nearby.

The problems with Ordnance vs Vehicles is much easier to solve. It's another typical case of GW having a great idea, but executing it horribly.

Right now, if the centre dot misses, the weapon is at half strength. This means that most Ord weapons won't actually hurt their target. This is stupid.

Simply make it that if the centre dot doesn't hit, the weapon can only Glance, regardless of the penetration dice.

I've always been of the opinion that an Ordnance weapon that doesn't hit directly should cause less damage - in this area GW and I agree - but GW rules don't have Ord weapons causing less damage, they have them causing no damage. The fix above allows Ord weapons to cause damage.

BYE

wow, H.B.M.C. I like your thinking. The fact is that right now ordnance shooting at a tank has a 1/3 shot of getting a hit. I don't think I've ever had one of my bassies hurt a tank unless it was a hit on the scatter die. Otherwise they're trying to say that my strength 9 explosion has the same tank killing power as a bolt pistol. Seems fishy to me. I do agree that it probably wouldn't be able to penetrate the armor of a tank without a direct hit, but a glancing hit? Sounds perfectly logical.

I agree with this, i always hated the fact that my monster tank firing a hyper velocity adamantium (or whatever) tipped, massive, high explosive shell has less of a chance of damaging a tank than a gaurdsman with a man portable weapon.

If you don't move your vehicle and you are firing at a Rhino sized or bigger target, you actually have a decent chance of hitting, you need to roll a 3 or better on the scatter to not be on the target. It still blows though, i think the only glancing rule proposed is a good idea though, and is fair and much more realistic.

Also, ordnance should do multiple wounds like in 2nd ed, why in the hell does a wound from a giant cannon do the same damage to an MC as a las gun? I think they should do D3 wounds (but one invul save stops all damage)

I like the glancing hit idea.

I still think BS should somehow effect ordnance scatter. Altho admittedly it could be explained as "tracking systems only".

I like the idea of causing more than one wound to MCs with Ordnance. T6 MCs at least if not T8. Demons of Nurgle could have an immunity.

One way of having high strength weapons cause multiple wounds is to use a D3 or D6 roll. A different, and possibly not workable way is to have some weapons continue to cause additional wounds as long as you can keep rolling wounding hits. A lascannon hit on a toughness 4 model with 3 wounds, for example, would cause a single wound on a 2+. You then re-roll the wound dice, and if it comes up 2+ again, the model takes another wound. Keep going until either the model runs out of wounds or the wound die rolls a 1. You might be able to add this to every weapon if a successful armour save prevented any further wound rolls.

This will start coming up alot more with Baneblades hitting the table.