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Well, my friend has a grey knight army and i've got orks. obviously grey knights are expensive, but what's the downside (if any) to them in battle. I mean, ork's downside is their BS of 2.

It was about even on the field, when he deep striked his termies, i launched my main mob of boyz in cc and got chewed up and spat out.

Is outnumbering the enemy the only way?

If so; which is better...5 nobz or 10 boyz?

Is my only hope to send my mobs of boyz in and try to trample them in cc?

I can't find any weaknesses to the grey knights!!!

Boyz are better.

Grey Knight downside is very little long ranged antitank, and costin a crapload of points for not a lot of dudes. Basically it's a horrible army that only does well against total scrubs, even in the best configurations. Orks should eat GKs for breakfast.

I suggest posting your list in the list forum when you get the new codex and someone will help you make it annihilate GKs without thinking.

My suggestion would be:

warboss on a bike
lots of shootas or sluggas
lots of stormboyz
some lootas

win!

It looks like you're new to the game, Blysk. Let me give you a few pointers.

Grey Knights look tough, but despite their stats they're weak in the context of the game. As Longshot said, they simply cost too much. You could even give them more special abilities, without raising their points, and they would still be a C list army. In fact, somebody should try this- take a Grey Knights army put them up against any tourney level list. Give the GKs Feel No Pain and Fleet of Foot for free, and I'm betting they would still get spanked hard.

If you're Blysk, you're probably wondering why. Simply put, GKs are well designed fortaking out big tough enemies, such as Chaos Lords and Deamon Princes, in close combat. That's great, but nobody ever runs an army of close combat independant characters and monsterous creatures. So you're stuck with some of the most expensive basic troops in the game that only toss out marginally more close combat attacks and bolter fire than your average space marine, meaning you don't have the firepower to prevent things from reaching your lines, and you don't have the attacks to kill them all in close combat. Furthermore, GKs still only have 1 wound, and there are many, many things in the game that kill one-wound MEQs very efficiently.

Which brings me to one of the most important lessons you can learn in 40K (or indeed, most miniature games)- don't put all your eggs in one basket. Resist the urge to tool up your Senior Officer/Warboss/Hive Tyrant, because you can't bonk with your plasma bonker while you're shooting with your ion shooter and having your commander survive to the end doesn't matter if you lose anyway. Select a role for your models, and equip them accordingly. Crunch the ROI numbers on the equipment before purchasing. Never become emotionally invested in the survival of a particular model- if you aren't planning to sent model X into close combat, then model X probably shouldn't have a 4+ invulnerable save for 20 points.

I think against old orks Grey Knights were bizarrely well suited to taking them down, if the ork player didn't completely max out on rokkits. They had a lot of 24" range firepower and could just walk backwards away from incoming mobs while shooting. Then when the ragged remnants of the mobs hit they tended to bounce off the Grey Knights in combat. It was usually a pretty close fight between my foorsloggers and the Grey Knights. Speed Freaks or Ferals would probably mop them up, but not normal ork footsloggers.

With the new rules, orks will mulch grey knights pretty easily. They just can't do enough damage to them on the way in anymore and stuff like stormboys and Warpheads will have the boys closing faster than ever.

If I were an orc player, I would giggle like a school girl every time terminators deep struck near me. I mean they are super expensive, can't do treamendous shooting damage to me for what they cost and their primary defence (2+ saves) is mostly negated by my choppas. Sign me the heck up. I mean serisouly, look at what those terminators cost and what you can get for the same price in choppa boys. Throw in a hidden power claw nob with the squad and those terminators are toast. Sure they will shoot up a squad fairly well on their way in, but it just isn't enough to turn the green tide.

Now on the other hand, foot slogging greenies charging into massed storm bolter fire might be a daunting task. But we all know that transports rule (particularly open toped ones you can assault out of) so make use of one of your armies prime advantages.

Honestly, shootaboyz should be outshooting grey knight terminators with ease.

shootaboys cost around 1/6th of what a Gk terminator costs.

so:
60 shootaboys vs. 10 GK terminators

120 shots, 40 hits, 20 wounds, ~3 dead termies (looking at 135pts dead)

10 GK terminators, 20 shots, 13.3 hits, 6.6 wounds, 6.6 dead shootaboys at around 50points of shootaboys.

Winner: Orkz

Yeah, Grey Knight Termies are dumb. But normal Grey Knights are an even fight versus old orks.

Grey Knights biggest problem is they need some kind of a jump pack unit to help them take the fight to the enemy. They are like Space Wolves on steroids at a higher price with less options other than respectible down range shooting.

Hmmmm...

Well, i have mainly the footslogging slugga boyz, and a fair amount of ard' boyz.

i have 8 stormboyz and am working my way up on a loota squad (i have 3 lootas)

A wartrak, and a wartruk on steroids,
(Stickbomb Chucka, Autocannon [ looted, i know you "can't" but its a cool conversion], rokkit launcha (three rokkits) and i'm thinking of giving it a bolt-on big shoota. Problem is it dies too fast =|

I'm wondering if i should stock up on wartrukks (maybe 2 more) and make my sluggas Trukk Boyz.

Then i'll get some in fast with my stormies and pummel the enemy in CC.

Problem is my friend has a Land Raider Crusader, with hurricane bolters that rip down my mobs. It's 14 all around and my best hopes is to blow is to up with a hidden powerclaw, or get lucky with my kannon (S8 shells), hit on a 5+ =|

i have a second looted autocannon, but it's artillery, S7 48''

I have a nice ork base with 3 big shoota turrets and a turret with 4 shootas on it

I've got an ork with a kustom sniper, too.

So i'll just post my army list to the best of my ability, since i'm not by my orks right now.




Ard' Boyz (at least ten)

Around 50 slugga and shoota boyz (lots of big shootas)

8 Stormies

3 Lootas (on way to a full squad)

1 Tankbusta (on way to a full squad)

Grotsnik (Special Mad Dok), 2 grot orderlies

Killer Kan

Wartrak

Wartrukk

Mega Armoured Nob

Warboss (w/ power claw)

1 kannon, 1 lobba, bout 10 grots, a slaver + big mek

1 Splat gun (how do those work anyways?)

uhhhm....

the ork fort

Ork w/ kustom sniper

6 kustom orks in space marine armour (not lootas), two with power claw, two with plasma, one with power fist, one w/ nothing special

That's it i think.

So yeah, i know this isn't the place to list your army, but i already started this post anyways.

I sure hope this isn't the last post =/

Lol.

Which codex, Blysk?

Oh, well, that's the old one. Well idk if you'd call it old, but it's not "new". Has the new one come out? 

The one w/ the orks vs IG on the cover, that one ork charging in with the chainsaw, you know.

Oh, and by the way. My friend said i can't "Run over" his grey knights. Is that true?

Can you evem run over people anyways? I haven't bought the overpriced 50$ rulebook so i just figured i'd throw this into the ring too.

You can tank shock and Grey Knights don't have any rule forbidding or protecting them from tank shocking. But.. since they're fearless all tank shocking them will do is force them to move out of the way.

The new Ork Codex isn't out for another month, but it's been posted on BitTorrent sites though so many people have already read it.

Dude....

First thing you need to do is get the damn rulebook. Unless you already have the one that came in battle for maccrage, its the same as the BGB.

Tank shocking can sometimes push a unit a little closer to you, because even though they are fearless they still have to move. So in the right circumstances you can coral them boyz where you want them. Not something I'd go to vegas with though.

Rokkits are your friend, as well as a looted russ or basilisk.

Grey Knight Terminators are useless against you because of choppas, but a biggish squad of PA grey knights can be a real nuissance in HTH, because they always get their two attacks hitting you with 3's and wounding on 2" against your pitiful "6" armor save. Always bring a crap ton of boyz and a powerclaw (and rokkits) when you charge, and make sure you get the charge!!!!

Well i'll get the rulebook after i save up some money. But also, before you know it, the new codex will steal me of my beloved 4+ choppa rule.

A decent sized squad of Ork Boyz with a Power Klaw Nob will still usually win out against a comparable points value of Grey Knight Terminators. They're just too expensive and a large part of that price is going towards power weapons, which are wasted on Orks.

That statement relies on two critical assumptions:

1) That the GKTs don't have holocaust. If they have holocaust, the pendulum can potentially swing quite frighteningly in the other direction, depending on some factors that tend to revolve around the exact placement of the Orks.
2) That the GKTs get charged. If they do the charging, the edge will almost certainly swing back to the GKTs.

I've never seen GK Termies make their points back versus old orks. And they were probably my most frequent opponent. What makes it difficult for orks is the normal grey knight squads. They have a large threat radius with their Storm Bolters which are great at pulping the old over costed boys, and when you finally close to stompin' range they tend to simply duff over the remnants.
(That said, we had about 50/50 win loss, and I didn't build a completely tricked out ork army.)

That's funny against both hoard and speed freaks I put my GK's on the very back of my board edge and shoot them all down before they even get to me. There limited range (rokkits) are usually not a threat and thier big shootas don't spot me for a round or two. Psycannons do amazing things to ork trucks by the way. I just position by whole force to the clearest firing lanes and wait for them to come to me which orks tend to do.

Yup. Grey Knights are some of the best Ork Killing marines in the galaxy barring Chaos who max out on autocannons.

Only played a few games of DH v Orks, but generally, they went like this -

Any trukks - died to chimera/psycannon fire.

Mobs slogged across table.

Crusader /w termis zooms forward straight towards warboss.

Rokkits shoot at crusader and do diddly.

Crusader zooms forward, dumps out terminators, who lay down two incinerator templates. Charge. S6 weaps kill many orks. Holocaust kills many, many more. Orks either break or are wiped out.

I was always able to deal with the termies if they charged at me. And I always had some jam Zzapping any Land Raiders that came too close.

Which is suicide unless it's late game and thier are just a few orks to mop up. Never charge orks unless you can wipe them out in one go. I think the new dex will adress mobility with lots of Storm boyz and ways to propell across the board. (Waaagh power and all) Because the current state of the game highly favors shooty armies over assault. Dedicated assault armies get out gunned before they can even cross the board or if they do make it are left with to few models to make a difference. It sad when even bugs prefer to shoot things. I think I am close to a decent assault army with my current BA but I still have to take shooty elements to draw fire away from my assault troops. The only thing making my current list viable is the survivability of DC and Mephiston which IMO is still sad. So I am hoping the ork re-write changes things but so far I am hearing mostly how shooty they can be?

Posted By Lemartes on 11/05/2007 12:56 PM
Which is suicide unless it's late game and thier are just a few orks to mop up. Never charge orks unless you can wipe them out in one go. I think the new dex will adress mobility with lots of Storm boyz and ways to propell across the board. (Waaagh power and all) Because the current state of the game highly favors shooty armies over assault. Dedicated assault armies get out gunned before they can even cross the board or if they do make it are left with to few models to make a difference. It sad when even bugs prefer to shoot things. I think I am close to a decent assault army with my current BA but I still have to take shooty elements to draw fire away from my assault troops. The only thing making my current list viable is the survivability of DC and Mephiston which IMO is still sad. So I am hoping the ork re-write changes things but so far I am hearing mostly how shooty they can be?

Don't let the talk fool you, the Orks will still get most of their work done in assaults.  Storm Boyz are an absolute must to getting anything serious done vs. competitive lists. 

Additionally, while people are talking about Shootas and all that being great, it's only because they allow the Ork player to engage earlier and make them a threat that can't be completely avoided like normal footslogging mobs.  Rest assured that when within that magical 14-16" mark, most times the smart move is to Call the Waaagh and get into CC with your Shoota Boyz who will do more damage there than they will in shooting (thanks to the PK Nob).

The fawning over Lootas is that we have a long range solution to both Falcons, Hammerheads/Devilfish, and to some extent DakkaFex's.  If you played the old Orks, you'd understand exactly how big that is for Ork players. I pretty much retired my Boyz for over a year once Mech Tau/Eldar & Nidzilla became the Norm in terms of opponents.

Sounds encouraging. I look forward to playing against orks again period as they add so much flavor to the game. MC's and eldar air forces are boring me to tears to play against. Makes me warm and fuzzy inside that Cron's won the hard boyz but right behind it are MC's and Eldar. Cron player also looks like he drew good match ups tho'.

Well he even posted that. He got the armies that he could handle. I'd be afraid for his army playing against Zillas in one of the bog standard "normal missions" from the BGB. I think that the oddball missions in some of the games really separated a lot of the wheat from the chaff so to speak. Yes many of them were flawed, but in some cases it forced people to think outside the box a little, which I hope helped some non-standard armies to win it.

That's one thing I've learned about tournaments. If you get good draws, you can win it with non-standard lists. Heck last time I was at Baltimore I saw an Ork player go with two massacres to the table ahead of me....against a nasty Zilla list, and his game was over by turn 4 in a massacre for the Bugs.

The draws in these kinds of matchups mean that much.

Blysk: ask for a link to stolen PDFs again and you will be permanently banned from Dakka (IP block and everything).

Secondly, this forum is not a convienent method for you to get around purchasing the rulebook and/or codices. An occasional rules question on a tricky situation is fine as are general questions about the effectiveness of a particular unit or army but if you continue down this path of essentially asking for copyrighted information so you don't have to purchase it your posting priveleges will be suspended.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

 

Kay...
Didn't know that was illegal...

Well, anyways, I think i got this down. I should get more wartrukks, since boyz will cost less my army points will go down and leave room for more stuff, maybe i'll get a battlewagon.

I guess this is it. Thanks..