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Hello,

With all the excellent IG advice flowing around here lately, I have been anxiously reading and contemplating how it all goes with my models and style of play.

First off, I am more of a Don Mondo style player with a firebase and Deep Striking elements. I played next to Don on two occasions at the Baltimore GT in '05 and like his list and his style of play (although his incessant singing, made me want to eat a bullet ). And I am also a big fan of Stelek's ideas and lists, especially lack of plasma in line squads (I have had the same experience as he) and Sharpshooters doctrine on HW's. So combined with my own particular likes i.e., Rough Riders and Deep Striking Las cannon Sents. Here is my humble offering.

Doctrines

Sharpshooters
Rough Riders
Iron Discipline
Drop Troops
Hardened Vets

HQ
J.O.-ID, Flag, BP
2 Lascannon Sents
FS squad 3 auto cannons with SS
AT team 3 Las cannons with SS
AT team 3 Las cannons with SS

Elites
8 Vets with Vet sgt and 3 plasma
8 Vets with Vet sgt and 3 plasma
8 Vets with Vet sgt and 3 melta

Troops
JO+ID+BP
Squad with LC and SS
Squad with LC and SS

JO+ID+BP
Squad with LC and SS
Squad with LC and SS

20 Conscripts

Fast Attack
3 ML Sents
8 RR's with Vet Sgt and HL's
8 RR's with Vet Sgt, Honorifica and HL's

Heavy Support
None, that's right nada

Basic plan are dropping vets, sents and possibly conscripts to annoy, capture objectives, take out hard targets. While Fire base pounds away with a better than average amount of SS'ing HW's and RR's annoy, divert and/or handle CC problems.

Thanks in advance for any ideas, comments and or criticisms

Hi there...

Do the BPs on your JOs stand for bolt pistol? Unless you are just filling out points, I'm not sure you need those.

I like sentinels with multilasers and HK missiles if I'm gonna deep strike with them. But I'm not gonna hate on lascannon sentinels too much. If thats what you have built, go for it.

The vet units can go down to 5. I don't think i've ever seen a veteran unit of any size repel firepower of any variety pointed at it. I think its best to just make them full on suicide squads rather than a forlorn hope scoring unit.

With that many rough riders, I don't really think you need conscripts too. You don't have a commissar or Gaunt around to make them really good.

I don't like running 3 sentinels in a unit. I like to go 2 max, that way if you have a mobile sentinel, you have a scoring unit.

You could probably get the points together from those and a few more cuts to run a second unit of fire support autocannons.


Overall the list has a decent number of models. A respectable firebase, and a good deal of temporary mobility. Not my style, but its filled with quality units. The only over-arching problem could be that without running the drop troops with vehicles style list, you are really hosed bad on alpha missions. With no hellhounds to march your drop troops behind, they are just going to get picked off well before they influence the battle.

I'm sure others will chime in soon. Dakka has been a great place for guard tech lately hasn't it?

8-man Vets?

Why?

BYE

Hey guys,

BP does indeed stand for Bolt Pistols and they were just a point filler.

You are probably correct with the HK's on the ML sents it had occured to me and I probably should find the points. The Las cannon Sentinels I understand are not to everybodies taste, they have just worked well for me, especially when they drop. They usually hang around at the rear of the enemies lines for a couple turns deal out some damage or at least become something my opponent has to divert resources to deal with.

I have run 5 man suicide Vets many times in the past and (again just from my experience) they don't get their points back all that often for me at least. Eight man teams it seems provide a little more staying power provided a bad scatter or no deep striking and they have to infiltrate. Not married to the idea, just thought I would give it a try.

And yes, the IG advice has been exceptional of late.

With 8 vets, if an HB/AC speeder shoots you in the open (sometimes you gotta rush the passer so to speak, not often), you can retain your special weapons on most occasions (if you don't run, of course). Its not a good reason for it, but its the only one I remember from when I was playing good guard (very early 4th).

As for sharpshooters, I can see it for the heavy weapons squads, but why line squads? I would rather pay 8 points for the BS4, inf/ds vet than 7 for a BS 3.5 guardsman. Its still a guardsman, with a singular heavy weapon.

How do you plan on beating Mech Tau or Eldar? They don't care where you shoot them from when its a lascannon, they probably aren't going down. And both have some vicious elements that can wreck your units in short order.

I'm assuming he would fire heavy weapons at them or drop melta/plasma. I'm not sure what else someone would do with Guard. Do you have a better suggestion?

I would also advise against sharpshooters in general, and on infantry squads in particular. Having another gun and the associated guys holding it is almost always better than being (slightly) more accurate. 70 points spent on SS is well on the way to another Lascannon.

Mech Tau and Mech Eldar will give this list some problems, but as Walt above me said, I would shoot them alot and re roll any 1's to hit. That being said, I also welcome any suggestions you have DH in dealing with skimmers, Tau or Eldar.

Thanks Walt, you may be right with the line squads, may take it off and add some HK's to the Sents.

One OK way of dealing with skimmers with guard is light infantry heavy weapon units (so they can infiltrate to get LoS on the skimmers) combined with an Inquisitor with emperors tarot (to increase the chance of going first). It's far from a sure thing, and don't work in escalation, but can make all the difference if you manage to take down a skimmer or two before they move.

When you are dropping them, I dn't think it's worth it to spend extra points on the vets.

I vaguely recall someone claiming that statistically, sharpshooters is inferior to buying more guns, for Bs3 troops. I cannot recall where I heard that though but I do recall it was a fairly reliable source.

I think it's still a good idea to buy plasma on all those line squads.

I think you have one RR squad too many, most likely. Hard to hide even one sometimes, especially without any leman russes.

I am not sure what exactly purpose the conscripts serve in this list. Are you planning on holding a track and field meet or something? Most of what they are good at doing is breaking instantly from enemy shooting and acting like a sweet ramp for your enemy's assault units.

Correct me if I am wrong about the conscripts but I believe they run like girls at the slightest provocation, without some kind of leadership bump?

Vets should be 5 man.

Conscripts at 20 aren't very useful, and you have RR's. Don't really need both.

The sents will just die, you have nothing else for the other guy to shoot at with heavy weapons. Personally I'd stay away from the sents and add more bodies.

he could try destriking the sents, which at least give them a chance to shoot before they are shot at. If that is what you are planning I'd make them lascannons.

Vets should definately be 5 man, if you want you can buy the sergeants plasma pistols, just to make it even more deadly, but I would do with with filler points at the end.

drop either 2 squads of RR, or the conscript horde, they are supposed to be throwaway units to slow down the enemy, you've spent too many points on speed bump units.

The heavy weapons teams with ss are a good idea, line squads with it aren't

hope thats somewhat helpful =)

Just for the sake of throughness, here is the final draft of a list I am going to play in a friendly on the 26th

Doctrines
Sharpshooters
Rough Riders
Iron Discipline
Drop Troopers
Hardened Vets

HQ

JO +BP+flag+ID
2 Lascannon Sents with Improved comms
2x Fire Support-Autocannons with Sharpshooter
2x Anti Tank-Lascannons with SS

Elites
3x Vets+Vet Sgt+ 3 plasma

Troops

JO+ID+BP
Troops+LC
Troops+LC
Remnants+Plasma

JO+ID+BP
Troops+LC
Troops+LC
Remnants+Plasma

Fast Attack
3 ML Sents
8 RR's with Vet Sgt+BP+HL's
8 RR's with Vet Sgt+BP+HL's
=1750

125 Troops
5 Light Vehicles
6 Autocannons
12 Lascannons
11 plasma (9 BS4)
3 Multilasers

thanks for all the help

Well I'd like to hear how the sentinels do for you.