Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is a force my friend wanted me to make for him. It's based off a US infantry (light) force.

Before you say they suck, he wanted missiles and mortars...and the autocannons are uhh you know the cannons lol. The lascannons are a bit off but the army has to be viable, right? Call the meltaguns and plasmaguns RPGs and you're good to go.

So there are the following in the list:

@BS3:
6 meltaguns (drop)
6 flamers (drop)
6 mortars (2 units of 3)

@BS3(with sharpshooters):
12 autocannons (4 units of 3)
9 lascannons (3 units of 3)

@BS4:
6 plasmaguns (drop)
10 missile launchers (5 units of 2)

I'm sure some will call it cheesy, but it's a legal list.

It disintegrates most armies fairly quickly. JSJ units need to be hit with the mortars and the 5 drop units.

Enjoy.

1850 Pts - Imperial Guard Roster - IG Infantry

0 Command Platoon @ 554 Pts
0 Command Squad @ [72] Pts
1 Junior Officer @ [40] Pts
Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol
4 Guardsmen @ [24] Pts
Flamer (x2), Meltagun (x2)
6 Anti-Tank Squad @ [120] Pts
Sharpshooters; Lasgun (x3); Lascannon (x3)
6 Fire Support Squad @ [105] Pts
Sharpshooters; Lasgun (x3); Autocannon (x3)
6 Fire Support Squad @ [105] Pts
Sharpshooters; Lasgun (x3); Autocannon (x3)
6 Mortar Squad @ [80] Pts
Lasgun (x3); Mortar (x3)
6 Mortar Squad @ [80] Pts
Lasgun (x3); Mortar (x3)

4 Hardened Veterans @ 75 Pts
Drop Troops; Lasgun (x1); Plasmagun (x3)
1 Veteran Sergeant @ [13] Pts
Drop Troops; Lasgun

4 Hardened Veterans @ 75 Pts
Drop Troops; Lasgun (x1); Plasmagun (x3)
1 Veteran Sergeant @ [13] Pts
Lasgun

0 Last Chancers @ 530 Pts
1 Colonel Schaeffer @ [75] Pts
Bionics; Carapace Armour; Macharian Cross; Medallion Crimson; Plasma Pistol; Power Weapon; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Kage @ [35] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
10 Last Chancers @ [420] Pts
Lasgun (x10); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [31] Pts
Missile Launcher; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [31] Pts
Missile Launcher; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [31] Pts
Missile Launcher; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [31] Pts
Missile Launcher; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [31] Pts
Missile Launcher; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [31] Pts
Missile Launcher; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [31] Pts
Missile Launcher; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [31] Pts
Missile Launcher; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [31] Pts
Missile Launcher; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [31] Pts
Missile Launcher; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades

1 Heavy Weapons Platoon @ 297 Pts
0 Command Squad @ [72] Pts
Drop Troops
1 Junior Officer @ [40] Pts
Drop Troops; Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol
4 Guardsmen @ [32] Pts
Drop Troops; Flamer (x2); Meltagun (x2)
6 Anti-Tank Squad @ [120] Pts
Sharpshooters; Lasgun (x3); Lascannon (x3)
6 Fire Support Squad @ [105] Pts
Sharpshooters; Lasgun (x3); Autocannon (x3)

1 Heavy Weapons Platoon @ 297 Pts
0 Command Squad @ [72] Pts
Drop Troops
1 Junior Officer @ [40] Pts
Drop Troops; Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol
4 Guardsmen @ [32] Pts
Drop Troops; Flamer (x2); Meltagun (x2)
6 Fire Support Squad @ [105] Pts
Sharpshooters; Lasgun (x3); Autocannon (x3)
6 Anti-Tank Squad @ [120] Pts
Sharpshooters; Lasgun (x3); Lascannon (x3)

Total Roster Cost: 1836

Two questions -

1) Are you working under the assumption that your drop troops are pretty much assumed dead after their drop?

2) Do you really see crushing victories regularly with this army?

As far as I can tell, this army could eat it pretty hard or be forced into a number of draws against any close combat horde; you put a lot of high cost options into this army at a sacrifice of surivability in more boots on the ground. Plus the idea of so many points being wrapped up in one squad, your Last Chancers, makes my teeth hurt.

On the flip side, I see no vehicle surviving the moment it peaks its head out or that you roll a couple of your reserves to come in after turn two.

cervidal wrote:Two questions -

1) Are you working under the assumption that your drop troops are pretty much assumed dead after their drop?

2) Do you really see crushing victories regularly with this army?

As far as I can tell, this army could eat it pretty hard or be forced into a number of draws against any close combat horde; you put a lot of high cost options into this army at a sacrifice of surivability in more boots on the ground. Plus the idea of so many points being wrapped up in one squad, your Last Chancers, makes my teeth hurt.

On the flip side, I see no vehicle surviving the moment it peaks its head out or that you roll a couple of your reserves to come in after turn two.

The Last Chancers can be divided into 5 different scoring units.

Yes, traditionally Guard Drop troops die after they land and kill something. But 75 points for six BS4 Plasma Gun shots is pretty good.

You forget you can fire missile launchers on template mode.

Toss in the mortars, and let's add up the number of shots vs a horde:

6 mortars, 10 missiles....so that's 16 S4 blast templates.

It's deadly all around.

Yes, you expect the hardened vets to die. They drop, kill something nasty, and die.

Last Chancers don't give up points easily. Read their rules carefully.

Looks pretty scary. If this is what you produce for a light infantry force, I'm excited about what you'll do with tanks.

i see this army getting cut to ribbons every game it plays. it has good numbers, but nothing to support those numbers (ie leman russ').

Dear Stelek,

One of my favorite movies was 'Zulu', with Michael Caine.So, years ago before they went 'out of production' I bought a bunch of Praetorian Guard,6 heavy bolters, 4 lascanons, 6 autocannons, 8 grenade launchers, 8 meltaguns and 8 flamers along with 3 missle launchers and 3mortars and about 120 infantry, including some command figures, and 3 sentinels. I had planned on adding a tank or two. But, this was in the days of Rus Wakelin with floot slogging guard had no doctrines, no drop troops, no Witch Hunters, carapace, chamoline etc.

The Codex changed before I put paint to figure, and I couldn't see how the force could be used. Sadly, they have no plasma guns-but I could convert the grenade launchers. I was going to pitch them on EBAY. Do you think they could be used in some way similar to this army?

Yep they surely could. I love Zulu. That last stand at the end, awesome.

What bastirous doesn't understand is this:

Everything has a 48" range. That means most anti-infantry weapons won't reach without moving, and that means you can focus fire into those anti-infantry units (cough heavy bolter devs I'm talking to you) and kill them before they can hurt you.

There are also no less than 12 units on the board at setup + 5 deep strike/counter units that really do put the hurt where you need it.

Most anti-infantry capable units (like say preds with heavy bolters) get to move and fire once, then they get blown up. While they *can* destroy any single unit, they can't destroy MORE than one.

That's the key here--tremendous firepower, and the weakness in body count is offset by number of units.

Often as not, if I can go first I can destroy literally everything I can see--in almost any army.

I would enjoy running my 1850 SM list that has never lost a game. Just saying I would not mind facing this list as its something that would give me a challenge depending on the mission. Over all I dont see this list standing that long vs my marines. Just my thought as you lack staying power. Lascannon would be the first target and then I would move into your missle launchers. Auto cannon, mortars, drop troops would fall in line after that. Drop would get what it could and then would be removed, gamble of which does not always pay off. Another thing to look at is that I am placing a lot of marines on the boards and thus if you plan on dropping in. Placement and 2d6 could end up removing that unit before it has a chance to do anything.

The army might be able to remove what you want on the first turn. Then again its staying power is not something you want to have questioned.

Mission would be your down fall.

Over all its a hell of a list to look at.

Imperial Guard-zero top 5 finishes in last 8 GT's. Implication, standard guard templates are not effective in current metagame. Standard templates usually feature multiple large tanks, mix of light vehicles and infantry.

Problem with current template, despite high armor values tanks can disappear in one shot to variety of weapon systems particularly skimmers which outrange tanks. Guard 'line infantry' lasgun also not particularly effective; day of 'lasgun love' now gone. Line of guard infantry units can becme tyranid chow with consolidation moves.

In game terms, an infantry unit armed with heavy weapons can put out firepower of a tank but takes multiple hits to remove.

Games is also 'I Go You Go', so getting in first shot is critical. Long range firepower from multiple threats is good.

Hence, Stelek's 'outside the box' list. Couldn't do any worse than other Imperial Guard armies are doing on tournament circut. Certainly will surprise.

Question, Stelek's army buddy wanted mortars-a so so choice. Anything better if he didn't want to replicate US light infantry model so closely?

Question, might someone summarize the Last Chancer rules without violating copyright, I only have the previous codex where they carried a variety of weapons.

mikeguth

Tarval: SM that have never lost? Heehee that hits my giggle bone. Just curious, what SM army do you have that's got anti-infantry firepower at 48"?

If you mention whirlwinds I'm going to cry.

mike:

Most IG armies are indeed a 'mix' or a 'horde'.

The problem with the 'mix' is you lose the inherent value of cheap guard models vs anti-tank weapons.

The problem with the 'horde' is you are often unable to pack a table side and 'refuse flank' a mobile army.

While it's vulnerable to anti-infantry fire where normal 'horde' IG are not, you really can stuff one side and just wait for the mobile army to come to you.

Only enemy tanks (meaning Tau railheads and IG Battletanks) with pie plates AND long range will make you play differently--but often as not you can see where those go down, and place your army accordingly.

Mortars are normally a subpar choice, but without them and the missile launchers; you'd never get through stealershock, dark eldar and eldar warrior/guardian hordes, gaunt hordes, other IG 'horde' armies, and ork horde armies.

mikeguth wrote:day of 'lasgun love' now gone.

Yeah. I think the last time there was any lasgun love was back in the RT days...or playing Necromunda.

Now the questions are where to get more Praetorians, the are no longer in the Classic Collectors range, and are also missing from the UK BITZ range. Then, do you use standard Praetorians as the 'last chancers', or Catachan troops in blue pants and red torn vests instead of camo...

UK says Praetorians MAY appear in BITZ in a couple of months....

Zulu Dawn also wasn't a bad 'prequel'.

Oops, forgot to note that Stelek officially abhores Escalation, but wouldn't this army excel at escalation??

Just a thought.

What board do you play on that has 48" to each side. Like i said the mission will inform us of your fate. Next thing you have to factor is that your LD is so low on your heavy squads that you might be forced to start taking targeting test of which could really put a dent in your over all idea of taking apart what you want. Mind you its a great list and I would enjoy playing it with my marines. I have been pulling my 3rd list out that was updated to 4th ed and that list has not lost a game yet. I have played every army multi time and no I am not looking for a pissing contest. I am simply saying the list looks sound and was informing you of some of the flaws it might face.

LD, all forms
Missions,
Staying power,

over all its a solid list, and as a side note I do enjoy your thought as I see it in your list.

When I say side I meant opponent vs opponent.

Not playing on a 4' by 4' board, playing on a 6' x 4' board.

Escalation is going away with 5th edition, and most tournaments now don't bother with it.

You know and I know what you were talking about so two lines of your reply are mute.

As of now we are in 4th ed and that is what I am basing my points on.

Last RTT I went to had Escalation in it as well as some other hoop lah. One mission required you on turn three to roll a dice and that was what the mission was going to be ( delayed orders or something ).

I was more less just giving my two cents on things that said list might run into.

I was just letting you know how I would work at taking apart your list is all.

Dont get me wrong, its a great list and I can see a lot of good things coming from it. Able to take out Daks in droves as you work on putting the smack down on the Gun Fex.

How does this do against "Boo!"?

Not sure, what's Boo?! lol

He means the fear of darkness SPace Marine librarian drop pod

The one going away in a few months and that hardly anyone plays anymore?

I guess you'd split your force into the corners and let him hit one side, and splatter him with the other.

Drop pods are dangerous vs regular guard where there are fewer units for them to shoot.

Well run drop pod armies are rare. Even good ones have serious drawbacks. Totally being unable to move from one corner to the other is one.

Agreed. A lot of IG players I have seen will take a cheapo canoness with the book to make units hold the line. Then you have the officer with I.D. and a standard....like Stelek said you split your army into to separate fire bases...the canoness holds one together, and the Officer holds together the other. If the pods come down, they will have to split their firepower to deal with both...which goes against the primary strategy of DP armies...and plays right into your armies hands.

Capt K

Stelek wrote:The one going away in a few months and that hardly anyone plays anymore?

I guess you'd split your force into the corners and let him hit one side, and splatter him with the other.

Drop pods are dangerous vs regular guard where there are fewer units for them to shoot.

Well run drop pod armies are rare. Even good ones have serious drawbacks. Totally being unable to move from one corner to the other is one.