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So on a trip to the GW-US HQ store in Glenn Burnie by our gaming group, we happened to come across the printed copy of the new Demon Army Book for WHFB (no 40k Codex was in).

I’m going to preface this with an apology to players of Chaos gods I don’t care about as much, since I don’t recall all the stuff for them as I mainly looked at the stuff that interested me. With 4 of us on the trip who play WHFB and the other guys actually play Chaos armies, we were all vying for chances to look at the book. Most of what I remember is for Khorne and a little Tzeench.

So lets start off:

All the “Core Demons” – Plaguebearers, Pink Horrors, Bloodletters, Demonettes, and Furies all cost the same amount of points as a Dryad.

No Khorne units have Frenzy.

All Demons get a 5+ Ward Save, straight up. There is no restrictions on that.

Demons no longer go “Poof” when you roll above their LD, they just take the wounds per their current rules based on their LD.

Which BTW, for all the non Character Demons from what I recall, is LD7, except Furies who are LD2.

Bloodletters have the rumored statline, but it is only S5 instead of S6. They do have killing blow, 1A, M5, and Hatred with a Herald in the unit.

Demonettes are only S3, as are mounted Demonettes, profiles are the same otherwise (I think, I know it’s WS5, S3, 2A). Regular Demonettes move 6 now. With a Herald in the unit they get ASF.

Plague Bearers are WS3. I didn’t see if they had the other rules, but with a Herald in the unit I think that they have no flanks or rear.

Pink Horrors have the rule where they can count as up to a Lvl 3 Wizard depending on the # of Horrors in the unit. I think 30 gets you the Level 3 status and one of the spells. The Lore of Tzeench is mostly as rumored, which I’ll get to later. With a Herald in the unit they get a 4+ ward instead of the 5+.

Furies are WS3, S4, 1A. They are Core, with no restrictions on taking them other than they don’t count towards your min core choices.

That’s the Core Section.

Specials are:

Khorne Flesh Hounds. Cost as much as an Ogre Bull. WS5, S5, forgot the T, 2 Wounds, M8, MR3.

Nurglings, didn’t look at the profile – sorry but I’m not big on Pappa Nurgle.

Seekers of Slannesh – Mounted Demonettes, but with the new Demontte profile. Mount has poison but I don’t remember more than that.

Tzeench Screamers – Reduced S, T, Wounds. Cause a S5 attack on everything they fly over, but if you get them in combat they die.

Rare:

Blood Crushers – Cost the same as a Dragon Ogre. About the same, get a 3+ armor save I believe. Total of 3 Attacks from it, maybe 4, I’m not 100% sure on the recall here. Sorry guys.

Flamers of Tzeench – Skirmishers. Do D6 S4 hits at 18” in the shooting phase. Forgot the rest, Sorry.

Fiends of Slaanesh – Monster/Ogre style profile (T4, 3 wounds, 3A, S4), M10.

I forgot to look at the Nurgle guys, but they’re there. Sorry I don’t remember more.

Heralds:

Only Hero Level Choice.

May be mounted on one of their demonic beasts or a Chariot. Each Chaos Herald has it’s own entry, and they already screwed up on the wording for how they get their magic levels.

Each Herald can only take specific gifts from a list of options, which are detailed in the magic items list per normal. The Khorne Herald can take the one Gift (which is a sword of +1S and other stuff) that makes him S7.

I only remember that the Khorne Herald costs as much as a Great Cannon, and the Chariot for him costs as much as 5 Space Marines.

Tzeench Heralds are automatically Level 2 Wizards with no upgrades listed to the magic level (may still take Gifts, but it’s different from the ones for the other gods).

The Slannesh & Nurgle guys have the EXACT same wording and listing as the Tzeench Heralds but it says they’re Level 1 Wizards. But then it lists a points cost to make them “Level 1 Wizards”. One of the Red Shirts there told me that it was a misprint, but it isn’t supposed to make them Level 2 Wizards, it’s the points costs to make them into Level 1’s. Of course from looking at it, they appear to automatically be Level 1’s, since the Tzeench one is worded the same way, and has no upgrades listed for his Magic Level. Go Go GW Dev Team!

I don’t remember much for the Chariots, except that the Tzeench one still fly’s and that the Khorne one is drawn by only one juggernaught with no upgrades to make it 2 of em.

Each God has a special Character version of the Herald in the Hero Section.

One Herald can be the BSB. They just let you re-roll your Demonic Test, nothing about increasing the ward save, there were no banners that let you do that either.

Lords:

There are multiple special character greater demons. The Tzeench one generates 4 Power Dice, but has multiple Heads and knows all the spells from the Tzeench Lore and each head can pick and choose one spell from any lore of magic (so yes, he can cast Cleansing Flare – WTF?). He’s only T5, and WS3 though. Costs about as much as the CURRENT Blood Thirster in the CURRENT HoC book.

I didn’t look at the other special character GD’s.

The Demon Prince still sucks. Costs as much as a Steam Tank for his base cost. Only 4 Wounds, S5, T5, so no Rank Busting. Can take 100 points of Gifts but it’s listed in what he can take. I believe you can make him undivided, didn’t see Mark options, but then I didn’t look much at that.

Greater Demons got a points drop, are all LD9.

The Blood Thirster does not have Frenzy. Costs 200 points less than his current version but can take up to 100 points in gifts, one of which is a Demonic Scroll (doesn’t look like you can double up on this), and he can take the Sword of +1S, making him S7. He’s got the same profile as now but is down to 5 Wounds. Can take up to a 3+ armor save, and/or a host of other gifts, and no the rumor of taking a weapon that does D3 wounds is NOT true. You’ll see him get the S7 weapon 99% of the time I think. EDIT: I forgot, he's got Hatred.

The Great Unclean One still has 10 Wounds. Can be up to a Level 4, with specific point’s costs per level.

Keeper of Secrets is the same way. I think he was up to M10, but I don’t recall.

The Super Chicken…err Lord of Change is an auto-level 4.

Magic:

The Rumored Tzeench Lore as posted seems spot on. Except the 6th spell, which is cast on a 13+, does 2D6 S5 hits to a unit and any unsaved wounds create a unit of Horrors within 3” of the target unit.

The spell that generates extra PD for you is cast on a 3+. I forget the rest but they looked a lot like the spells posted.

I didn’t read the nurgle spell list.

I only saw that the Slaneesh spell list had one that had you take 2D6 S5 hits and then you took a LD test, if you fail, you take another 2D6 S5 hits, etc until you either pass your LD test or just die. That was only the 4th spell in the list BTW.

And that’s just about everything that I can remember from the book. I tried to give as much detail as possible, but we went back to look at it in between games and there were a bunch of people trying to get a look at it. If you can make it to the Glenn Burnie Battle Bunker, you can see it for yourself.

EDIT:

This is according to the Red Shirt there, but when the Book is released there will be an article in WD that separates all the Chaos Books, so no more intermixing. HoC are slated to be redone soon, but "Dark Elves are next". This is a red shirt saying this, so take it with your grain of salt, but it jives with the rumors I've read.

Some bizzare changes.

Screamers sound like they have been totally nerfed- they currently are about spot on for points with their current stats.

Also furies- I hope they have slashed the cost to like 4 points each as they won't be surviving long with Ld 2 and very, very low stats.

Hopefully I'll get to see the book in a couple of weeks thanks to my source in Sydney. But as it stands it looks like slaanesh all the way.

Also I had heard that no model = no entry in the book so chariots, pleasure seekers, plague riders etc are all gone. Now its much more 'mix and match' from all powers rather than allowing you to do an all nurgle list for example.

I think Furies are great for what they are: Min units that can fly around, march block, and Kill Warmachines, so your Greater Demon, can come out from hiding behind a forest and win for you.

When they cost as much as a dryad, and I believe the min unit size for them is 5, and you can spam them with no penalty, little units of 5 which are cheap as hell will do just fine.

And Slaneesh seems to have taken it right in the face with being limited to only S3 all around till you get to the Rare Slots.

The magic from what I saw was deadly as hell, I think the "best" Demon armies are going to be character driven.

And yeah, no models for Demonic Chariots, but I'm pretty sure that the Plague Riders are there in Rare. I know they have a unit that's got Monster like stats, but I can't remember any specifics, other than the fact that there is an entry for each god in Rare.

And yes, it looks like everything is mix-n-match and no restrictions.

With regards to the mortals I believe there is a "full" list, ala Blood Angels, in about 2 issues time. I believe the issue also contains, wait for it, a Chaos Marine Tactica !

But I'm pretty certain this will kill any crossover between the various books.

.... seems wierd typing that and knowing that no-one is going to shout YOU COULD IN APOCALYPSE !

Oh...wait.... YOU COULD IN LEGENDARY BATTLES !

Wow Voodoo, thanks for this. Lots to digest, but already impressed by that ONE Slaanesh spell and the rumored Tizz spells from before.

I know I won't be starting up a demon army (backlogged as is ), but you still thinking about it? Khorne with 0 frenzy is looking doable, if one-dimensional ...

- Salvage

Posted this elsewhere and was given some corrections by people who've seen the book for longer than I have:

Turns out I probably read it wrong, the Blood Letters are are strength 6. But 1 attack without frenzy.

Plaguebearers gain regeneration when the herald is in the unit. There's a gift that makes the opponent not gain +1/+2 for flanks/rear (costs as much as a SM).

With 36+ Horrors they can get to be lvl4

Khorne Flesh Hounds are T4

Nurglings - 3 attacks, 3 wounds, scout skirmishers

Blood Crushers can take a full command, they are toughness 4, 2 wounds. They have separate stats, where the bloodletter has 2 strength 6 killing blow attacks, and the jugger is 2 attacks strength 5. They gain +3 armor for being mounted instead of the +1, so they have a 4+ armor save.

Flamers of Tzeench – Skirmishers. Do D6 S4 hits at 18” in the shooting phase. Forgot the rest, Sorry.
They don't take multiple shots penalty, but other than that they are the same, but cost 35 points. 3-6 in unit size

Nurgle Plauge Riders:
They are the same cost as a great cannon, per model! Mv6, WS3, strength 4, toughness 5, 4 wounds, D6+1 attack, opponent gains no rear/flank bonus, poison, regeneration.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Nurgle Plauge Riders:
They are the same cost as a great cannon, per model! Mv6, WS3, strength 4, toughness 5, 4 wounds, D6+1 attack, opponent gains no rear/flank bonus, poison, regeneration.

Soooo the infamous plague riders ride again? Damn

And that lvl 4 horror block comes in at 432+ points, right? Unless dryads are in fact cheaper than I've got them at. But 400 points for a level 4 wizard with 36 wounds and 4+ CR ... :S

I also forgot to mention above that I dig how the heralds are working, by adding a big buff to the unit they're in. Pretty groovy, as well as nasty in pretty much every case.

- Salvage

Does the level of the "wizard" go down as the horrors die?

Yep, the spell the cast changes as does their magic level as more in the unit die.

Well that is good. As Salvage pointed out a 36 wound caster is crazy enough, but if it stayed the same caster level till they all were dead it would be just plain busted.

Regarding the slaneeshi guys/gals, I've heard from various sources that the daemonettes (mounted and on foot) get the armor piercing rule to make up for their lost str 4.

Chaoslord wrote:Regarding the slaneeshi guys/gals, I've heard from various sources that the daemonettes (mounted and on foot) get the armor piercing rule to make up for their lost str 4.

That's true, I forgot that little tidbit this morning.

I like the Horrors. They used to do that back in 4th ed, I like that they are bringing back some of these old rules.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

So no more Changebringers, Plague Riders, or pleasure Seekers. Oh well lots of counts as from my DL.

Bloody hell. My Chaos army is going to be ruined. They're splitting it up into three armies. Oh well, It was nice playing Fantasy... for a while.

The generally-accepted rumor is that the book separation will be a interim thing - the NEXT Hordes of Chaos book (due out Christmas-ish?) should allow daemons again.

But it's GW; who knows what they'll actually do.

To hell with THAT. I'll just keep using the current Army Book until, well, until I feel like doing differently.

I'd imagine that hordes can continue to use the daemons listed in hordes (seems reasonable) for hordes and beasts.

BUT you can't mix daemons between the other books until they remove the daemons in the hordes book by redoing it as mortals only.

I'd heard the beast of nurgle (the steamilng pile of poo model they are releasing) is what was replacing the plague rider.... happy to be proved wrong though and have plague riders stay.

But if they stay, and blood crushers stay, wouldn't all the 50mm cav stay (change bringers and pleasureseakers)?

Looks very much like no Pleasureseekers. What we're getting instead is the return of the Fiend of Slaanesh, in all it's scorpion-centauroid glory.

I'm okay with this, as I've been using my Fiends as Pleasureseekers since the Daemonic Legion came out, anyway.

I'd imagine that hordes can continue to use the daemons listed in hordes (seems reasonable) for hordes and beasts.

BUT you can't mix daemons between the other books until they remove the daemons in the hordes book by redoing it as mortals only.

Yeah, that. Sorry if there was confusion.

From what I gather, the SoC-list players could conceivably use plaguriders as beast of nurgle and pleasureseekers as fiend of slaneesh pretty nicely and I imagine not many people will use the piece-of-turd model for the plaguebeast. Looks like Changebringers indeed bit the dust, and only heralds can take chariots in the new ab.

They are going to confuse a lot of players by spliting the books and taking their time coming out with new versions of Hordes and Beasts. Especially newbies. That White Dwarf article will help the people with an army like me because I am going to buy it. But once that month passes, they better put that inof on the website or get those new Hordes and Beast books out quick.

Janthkin wrote:Looks very much like no Pleasureseekers. What we're getting instead is the return of the Fiend of Slaanesh, in all it's scorpion-centauroid glory.

I'm okay with this, as I've been using my Fiends as Pleasureseekers since the Daemonic Legion came out, anyway.

by pleasureseekers do you mean the mounted daemonettes? Or the super mounted daemonettes that were in the storm of chaos list?
Because they're in there as "seekers"

Janthkin wrote:The generally-accepted rumor is that the book separation will be a interim thing - the NEXT Hordes of Chaos book (due out Christmas-ish?) should allow daemons again.

But it's GW; who knows what they'll actually do.

Actually I'd disagree here, the general consensus is that the separation will be permanent. I think it's actually a full list-- like the BA one-- that will appear for mortals in WD.

MOunted daemonettes are in there as "Seekers of Slannesh". VERY fast-- fatser than horses and the mounts have poisoned attacks too. No Plagueriders or Tzeentch cavalry as such, I assume this might be due to there not being any new models yet and they might not have finalised exactly on how any future plastic kits will work.

One of my friends on the Daemonic Legion took some really good notes from the book. Thank to LokiGod (Tripp)

Looked at the book again today you guys are going to love me ... going to take points out,ld,in,and bs after emailing mods to protect the forum!


GUO - ### points
Lvl 1 wizard base
Lvl 2 ##,lvl 3 ##,lvl 4 ###
Terror
Poisoned
Etc
Stats
m6,ws4,s6,t6,w10,a4
Gifts
Bale sword- ## auto wounds d6 wounds
Nurgling infestation - ## at start both magic phases on 2 to 6 get another nurgle base on existing base within 6in 1 fails
Staff of nurgle-## casts rancid visitation on power lvl 3
Trappings ## +4 armour regen
Noxious vapors ## always strike last even for high elves
Pestilent mucus ## if you wound they have pass toughness test or it another wound no armour saves
Bile - ## str 4 breath weapon
Hunger - ## reroll fail to wounds
Trail- ## no flanks or rear

LOC - ### points
Lvl 2 wizard base
lvl 3 ##,lvl 4 ##
Terror
Fly
Knows all spells from lore of tzeentch
Etc
Stats
m8,ws6,s6,t6,w5,a5
Gifts
Twin heads ##- +2 to cast
Tzeentch will ## same effect as before
Staff of change ## if target wounded take toughness test or dies
Spell destroyer ## same effect
Power vortex ## + 1 dice to pool
Dark magister ## ignore 1st miscast
Daemonic robes ## 3+ or better to wound
Flames ##- shooting attack d6 str 4 18 in range
Corona - ## every thing in base takes str 3 hit every magic phase both players
Sorcery - pick any lore from basic rule book knows all spells

Various stats from unit choices these are correct straight from book

blood letters- ## points
m5,ws5,str5,t3,w1,a1
Killing blow
Think there mr 1
Banners for unit
Skull totem ## cant be marched blocked
Icon endless despair ## +d6 to first charge

Plauge bearers- ## points
m4,ws3,str4,t4,w1,a1
poisoned
Banners for unit
Seeping decay ## reroll wounds
Eternal virulence ## for every wound by poison it counts as 2 combat res

horrors- ## points
m4,ws3,str3,t3,w1,a1
Banners for unit
change ## base contact 3d6 str3 hits
Sorcery ## +1 to casting
bound spells a few of them
0-5 none
6-15 lvl 1 wizard flickering fire d6+1 missles at d6+1 str range 18 in
16-25 lvl 2 wizard gift of chaos 12in anywhere around caster d6 str 6 hit all enemy units even if there in comat
horros generate dice just like wizards and can miscast know all spells from there lvl below

fleshhounds- ## points min unit size 5
m8,ws5,str5,t4,w2,a2
Mr 3

nurglings- ## points
m4,ws3,str3,t3,w3,a3
Skirmish scout poison

Blood crushers - ## standard is ##
Mr1
+3 riders as
killing
Rider -m5,ws5,str6,t4,w2,a3
Crusher -m7,ws5,str5,t4,w1,a2
Magic banners
Skull totem ## cant be marched blocked
Icon endless despair ## +d6 to first charge

Flamers- ## points unit size 3to 6
m6,bs4,str5,t4,w2,a2
Skirmish
Flaming attacks
Flames of tzeentch - d6 str 4 shots 18in

Fiends- ## I think
m10,ws4,str4,t4,w3,a4
Sporforic musk - enemy uses 3 dice for break test discard lowest
Armour piercing

beast of nurgle - ### points each
m6,ws3,,str4,t5,w4,ad6+1
regen
slime trail- no flanks or rear bonus
poisoned

Got some info more I will post later on tzeentch herald and nurgle herald and khorne herald….. If this is too much on points and stuff feel free to edit post mods! I will post rest later tonight!

condensed from later post!
herald of khorne - ### points/jugger +##/ chariot ##
magic res 1
hatred
kb
Stats
m5,ws7,s6,t4,w2,a3,
gifts
for some reason i forgot to write these down although he has a total of 6 possible gifts

herald of tzeentch - ## points/disc ##/ chariot didnt look
lvl 2 wizard base
flaming attacks
+4 ward
Stats
m4,ws3,s3,t3,w2,a2
gifts
staff - ## when you wound they have to pass test or imediatley slain
power vortex - ## extra power dice to pool
flames of tzeentch- ## d6 rng 18 str 4 shooting evil.gif
d robes - ## cant be wounded on anything better than 3+
corona- ## see loc post
sorcery- ## see loc post
spell breaker- ## dispel scroll/ only person i saw that could take regular scroll blink.gif
winged horror - ## fly
disc stats
m1,ws3,s3,t3,w1,a1 big nerf

So ... bit OTT then? My only consolation is only 1 dude around my parts currently has a demon legion and everybody else is starting fantasy a new and not likely to get 2nd army so soon.

I like the wizard level variability and the gifts for greater demons, though makes for some whacked out builds (at huge points, I hope??). Cause ... 10 wounds 4+ armor, 5+ ward, 4+ regen on the GUO? W T F

- Salvage

by pleasureseekers do you mean the mounted daemonettes? Or the super mounted daemonettes that were in the storm of chaos list?
Because they're in there as "seekers"

By Pleasureseekers, I mean, well, Pleasureseekers. GW modeled them up as Daemonettes riding boobworms. Role-wise, the reintroduced Fiends serve the same role - ogre-replacement.

I like the wizard level variability and the gifts for greater demons, though makes for some whacked out builds (at huge points, I hope??). Cause ... 10 wounds 4+ armor, 5+ ward, 4+ regen on the GUO? W T F

Yeah, but he won't be killing anything much himself.

It looks very much like the VC - largely character-driven armies, with fairly little support from Core choices. Except Heralds (the only Hero option) aren't anything near as good as basic Vampires. Every core daemon type got a little cheaper, and a bit weaker. The only non-character options with S > 4 are the Bloodletters, and the only Core with A > 1 are the daemonettes.

I'm waiting to see the book myself before reaching final judgement, but no single-god configuration seems to jump out and say "I am the overpoweredness" in the way of, say, 14 casting dice Vampires.

I dunno, fleshhounds sound pretty nasty and if they are cheap, will be extremely brutal. And it looks like Tzeentch can get up there with magical nastiness and skirmishing shooters.

I don't like recent books seem to be pulling away from focus on core. Nor do I care for the emphasis on herohammer. I thought 6th and 7th was trying to get away from that? :-/

Fleshhounds look to be priced in the Ogre range themselves (slightly more than current Mounted Daemonettes). Tzeentch can have magic...with truly GIANT blocks of Horrors (think 25+); the skirmishing shooters are similarly pricey.

I like the options they've presented, but none of them are, say, ghoul-slingshot good.

And yeah, I wish it wasn't Herohammer again. I suppose, of all the armies, VC make sense. Daemons...you could hope an individual (core) daemon would be potent in himself, without quite such a gap between characters & basic troops. On the other hand, we're talking about Greater Daemons, one of GW's sacred cows; they're supposed to be individually terrifyingly powerful.