Dark Elf Rumor Round-Up [From Warseer]

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**Boss Salvage**

First, an impressive older set from Flomat:

General Rules
- Hatred as general wide-army rule;
- Eternal Hatred VS High Elves;

- maybe +1A on charge for Elite troops (difficult to see this rule on Troop choices)....it's possible that this bonus will be provided by the new Cauldron of Blood;

- Standard Army Composition Chart (at 2000 points: 3+ Troops; 0-4 Special & 0-2 Rare).

LORDS CHOICE

Dark Elf Highborn
- same profile, may be +5 points;
- can mount: Black Dragon, Manticore, Dark Pegasus, Cold One, Dark Steed or a CO Chariot;
- ColdOnes gains +1A on the profile;
- Dark Pegasus and Manticore have the same profile, but the Manticore will probably be cheaper;
- Black Dragon is the same as today, but his Breath will change: less St but with no Armour Save, and it will causes Panic Test if it wounds.

High Sorceress
- same profile, she will be a few points cheaper;
- upgrade to 4th level of magic will costs 35 points;
- she (obiouvsly) may not be included in Witch Elves troops;
- she knows: Dark Magic, Lore of Death and Lore of Shadows;
- can mount: Manticore, Dark Pegasus, ColdOne, Dark Steed;
- Sorceress loses the +1 bouns in casting spells, but they will be able to cast spells with as many dices as they want, regardless of magic level;
- they gain a new ability: at the cost of 1 wound, they'll gain 1 "special" Power Dice, tha will grants Total Power on a result of 6, and a Mistcast on a result of 1. (ie: Sorc. cast a spell with 2 "normal" dices and 1 "special" dice: with the normal ones she obtains 3 and 4, and with the "special" one she obtains a 6: Total Power!!! )

Heroes Choice

Dark Elf Noble
- same as today;
- BSB may take shield, great weapon, etc., like the HE one.

Sorceress
- see "High Sorceress" entry;
- probably they'll cost 5 points more than today (but the upgrade to 2nd level will be +35 points).

Assassin
- same profile and cost as today;
- may hide himself in enemy units;
- may be placed as a Scout;
- may, as today, hide himself in friendly units;
- Poisoned Attacks as an upgrade option (without spending the "magic items" points);
- ASF in the turn in wich he's revealed.

Beastlord
- no more a "Hero" choice, he'll be an upgrade option for monsters units.

Hag Queen
- Wich Elf Heroine quite effective in HtH ^^;
- ASF, Furious and never loses it;
- 2 hand weapons and Poisoned Attacks;
- Ward Save of 5+ ("Blessing of Khaine" rule);
- can mount: Manticore (taking 1 more Hero choice) or the Cauldron of Blood (0-1, probably take a Hero or Rare choice).

Cauldron of Blood
- it costs around 175/200 points;
- it seems that a new model will be produced;
- it can move as a warmachine;
- Large Target and causes Terror;
- all friendly units within 24" may re-roll failed To Wound rolls;
- it's Indistructible, tough if the Hag and the 2 Witches are killed, it's removed as a casuality;
- may confers +1A on charge (probably it is THIS the real rule about the +1A) to some units: Witch Elves, Executioners, Assassins, maybe Black Guard;
- the Hag Queen and the 2 Witches are Unbreakable and have a 5+ Guard Save;
- Witch Elves units within 12" gains +1 on their Ward Save;
- MAY join a Witch Elves unit, wich will become Unbreakable.

Dark Magic:
- a new "0" spell, autatically known by Sorceress that, on casting value of 4+ will generate d3+1 Power Dice, tough if not used, each of these dices will causes a St 5 hit on the Sorceress;
- Chillwind as today, exept for +1 St;
- Doombolt: 24" d6 St 5 hits, may gain 2 casting values, the 2nd inflicting 2d6 hits;
- Word of Pain as today, casting value reduced;
- Soul Thief works like a Hochland now, targeting any model within 24" and in LOS, causing a Wound without AS, that is transferred to the Sorceress;
- new spell that puts a friendly unit into Fury, if already Furious, it confers +1A to each model, but every turn the units suffers d3 casualities, remains in play;
- Black Horror similar to the "Pit of Shades", gains 24" of range.

Troops:

Warriors:
- they have lance, light armour and shiled for basic;
- they ARE cheap (around 7 point per model);
- may have a Magical Standard (max. 25 points).
- for a cost of around 50 points, a "lesser" Assassin may join the unit;
- he has 2/3 Poisoned Attacks and only 1 Wound;
- ASF and can't leave the unit in wich he's hiding.

Multi-Crossbowmen:
- they have crossbow and light armour for 10 points/model;
- may take shields for +1p.nt/model;
- looks like the Champion has BS of 5;
- they CAN'T take magical Standard;
- seems they can take the "lesser" Assassin;
- the new Repeating Crossbows are: range 24", St 3, Piercing AND multiple shot x2.

Corsairs:
- same as today for statistics and costs;
- may take a Magical Standard (max 25 points);
- new Special Rules UNCERTAIN: one is that they gains +50 VP for every unit killed in HtH and another one may be that A SINGLE unit may enter the battlefield like Dwarfs Miners did.

Dark Riders:
- same profile as today;
- they will be cheaper (around 13/14 points.....19 with Crossbows);
- seems they could make a March Movement before the start of the game.

Special Choice:

Shades
- same as today.

Harpies
- same profiles as today;
- cheaper (10/11 points/model).

Cold One Chariots:
- profile same as today, exept for the +1A of the ColdOnes;
- no more 1-2 for single Special slot.

Witch Elves
- minimum unit: 5+;
- same as today for profile and costs;
- 6+ Ward Save;
- 2 hand weapons, Poisoned Attacks, Fury (and never lose it), ASF;
- may take a Macical Standard (max 50 points);
- the Champion may take Poisons (one of these will halves enemy's I ).

Executioners:
- minimum units: 5+;
- 11 points/model;
- lose KB, but every successful To Hit dice, will aout-Wounds;
- Draichs works like Halleberds, and confers the Piercing Ability;
- may take a Magical Standard (max 50 points).

Black Guard:
- minimum units: 5+;
- 2A/model; Stubborn and Eternal Hatred;
- Halleberds and Heavy armours;
- may take a magical standard (max 50 points);
- the Champion may take 25 points of Magic Objects.

ColdOnes Knights
- will costs a few more points;
- ColdOnes with +1A;
- the Champion may take 25 points of Magic Objects;
- may take a magical standard of max 50 points (there is one that nullifies Stupidity).

Rare Choice:

Reaper Bolt Thrower:
- costs as today;
- 1-2 for single Rare Choice as today;
- 2 ways of shooting:
- a) if stationary: 48", single dard, St 6, no AS OR 48", 6 shoots, St 4, Piercing;
- b) if moved: 24", multiple shot x2 (it means exactly 12 shoots), St 3. (WITHOUT Piercing, and still suffers the movement and multiple shot penalities).

War Hydra:
- Large Target, causes Terror;
- Scaly Skin (3+ or 4+), Regeneration (special one!)
- with a 6 on Regeneration roll, a new head "grows", adding +1St to the hydra's Breath (starts with St 4) with a maximum of St 10.
- 2 Beastmasters as today;
- option for the Beastlord, that will grants favorable results on the Monster Reactions Chart and MAYBE could take 25 points of Magic Objects.

NEW MONSTER:
- it will something really fast, maybe even Flying;
- it will causes Terror quite for certain;
- it will have the Beastlord option, like the War Hydra.

the cases are 3:
a) something absolutely unespected;
b) the Manticore, now a Rare entry;
c) there is nothing at all as "new Rare choice"

...the more papable is the second case...the model already exists and the "traslation" from Hero to Rare is quite simple...

Special Characters:

Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth
- He'll be in the army list;
- still mounted on the Black Dragon Seraphon;
- He seems to has a 1+ AS and a Ward Save aginst Magic and similar;
- He has some magic weapons (I think they'll be the same as today, but the rules may change(;
- He seems still able to cast Spells;
- if present, the DE player would be able to re-deploy d3 units after the deployement phase.

Morathi
- 4th level High Sorceress (with all their special rules);
- can mount Sulephet, her Dark Pegasus;
- various rules/objects: one of them will grants her the possibility to Regenerate the wound auto-inflicted to gain the "special Power Dice";
- the enemies in BtB halves their WS and I;
- she seems to have a magic weapon similar to the Teclis' one.

Malus Darkblade
- same as today.

Shadowblade
- basically same as today;
- He seems to be a HERO choice.

Crone Hellebrone
- Hag Queen SC, more skillful in HtH than a "normal" Hag Queen;
- can mount the Cauldron of Blood (no information in the eventuality of mounting a Manticore).

Kouran
- if deployed, the Black Guard seems to count as Core Troop choice;
- Killing Blow and a good Armour Save;
- low cost in points.

Magic Objects:

Magic Weapons:
- a weapon that heals the owner's wounds, in base of how many he inflicts on enemies;
- a weapon "LETHAL" on Challenges;
- the Lifetaker will work as a Hochland, with multiple shot x2;
- a "Hag only" weapon that multiplies their Attacks;
- a weapons that multiplies inflifted Wounds;
- probably the Gauntlet of Power will be removed;
- some others, wich are unknown.

Magic Armours:
- a "special" SeaDragon Cloak that confers a better Armour Save and a 5+ Ward Save;
- a Shield that subtracts enemies' attacks;
- an armour that provides an Immutable AS (seems of 2+), at a low cost;
- some others, wich are unknown.

Talismans:
- the Crown of Black Iron will be the same as today;
- a talisman (Heart of the Hydra ???) that provides Regeneration;
- the Cloak of Dark Souls will be a talisman, same as today for the effects;
- probably the Heart-ston of Darkness will be removed;
- some (few) others, wich are unknown.

Arcane Items:
- various Infused spell objects;
- the Seal of Ghrond will be an Arcane Item, same as today for the effects;
- a Staff that provides a +1 bonus in Casting Spells at a low cost in points;
- the Soulstone remains the same as today;
- some others, wich are unknown.

Enchanted Items:
- totally unknown.

Magic Banners:
- Hydra Banner that DOUBLES the Attacks of the bearer's unit;
- a banner that provides a 5+ Ward Save against Magic and Shoots;
- a low cost banner that improves the unit's AS for 1 turn;
- a banner that gives the Immunity to Psicology rule to the unit (nullifying the Stupidity);
- a banner that provides the same effects of the "fury" spell;
- some (voices say "a lot more") others, wich are unknown.

New Models:
- plastic kit for the Highborn/Noble (1 mounted on ColdOne & 1 on foot);
- plastic kit for the Sorceress (1 mounted & 1 on foot);
- Crone Hellebrone;
- Kouran;
- Morathi;
- plastic Corsairs;
- Cauldron of Blood/Altar of Khaine (not known if in metal or plastic).
- ColdOne Knights
- Hydra

Models that seems not to be redone:
- Warriors;
- Dark Raiders;
- Executioners;
- Witch Elves;
- Shades;
- ColdOne Chariot;
- Harpies;
- Black Guard;
- Reaper Bolt Thrower;
- Manticore;
- Black Dragon

What seems to be in the Battalion Box:
- 2x Warriors box
- 1x new plastic Corsairs box
- maybe 1x new plastic ColdOne Knights.

Some conflicting ones from Mister Hat:

From someone who has supposedly read the playtest lists (in no particular order):

DE Coldones are "purebred". You can choose +1 M, +1A or +1 AS. Points cost not known.

DE Sorceresses can cast from within a unit. LOS is not needed. There is a nifty magic item that lets them cut the throat of one of the unit to gain +1 PD. VERY Dark-Elven IMHO. There is no maximum to the number of PD they can use, but the miscast table is horrible.

According to this book, Executioners keep KB. ????

Spearelves are 7 pts, +6 for RXB. LA and SH included.

The CoB gives a 4+ Ward to all Khaine units within 24". It can move (yep, it's back on wheels) but is fairly fragile. Well over 200 pts.

The Hydra is filthy, apparently, although expensive. There was no additional monster in the book my friend read.

All these differences (e.g. KB, additional monster) make me wonder if GW actually put out different lists to different groups. Would be a nice way to catch the leakers, eh?

And a summary of the magic rumors so far, by Scallat:

Incidentally have we heard anything reliable about having no zero level spell? As far as I can tell people seem to have decided that because it's in the demons rulebook it can't be in for Dark Elves while at the same time, ironically, using the fact that reckless is in the High Elves book as an argument in it's favour. Which is a bit inconsistant.

I don't see any reason why it couldn't still be on the table as a potentail rule.
I also happen to think it's pretty cool. In a list with 2 level 2's and a level 4 you can cast 7 power dice worth of spells (try to draw out dispells) then (potentially) cast the 0-spell 3 times (on a 3+ thanks the the +1 to cast rule) and have all your wizards back up to 4 dice.
The last rumour we heard about the 0-level spell was that any power dice not used that are generated from the that spell cause a S5 hit on your sorceress. In which case it's a damn good thing that they can cast above their dice limit.

Ok, so - Summary of what we know so far regarding Dark Elf Magic in the new edition.

Reckless is likey not in there. - The only person who's seen the play test rules that we know of says he hasn't seen it and doesn't know any play tester that has. Looks like it was wish listing.

+1 to casting rolls is likely still in - again thanks to Lord Aries for information on this.

Dark Elf wizards have no limit on the number of dice they can use on a casting roll - This one has been around for ages and is pretty concrete by my reckoning. (I will almost certianly attempt to cast a spell on 8 or 9 dice in my first game. Just for laughs.)

There is a possible 0-level spell similar to the boon of tzeentch.It will grant bonus powerdice but causes hits/wounds for unused bonus powerdice at the end of the phase. - Unsure about this rumour seems likely to me but then Lord Aries has said no. He also said he wasn't paying to much attention to magic. Anyone know anything solid? This rumour appeared along with the rumours about Repeater Hand Crossbows for corsairs and they turned out to be true.

There is a magic item that allows sorceresses to sacrifice either models in the same unit or her own wounds for bonus power dice. - Again this has been around for ages (and was in the same rumours that told us about repeater hand bows for corsairs) - I consider this one confirmed.

Dominion is likely gone to be replaced with some kind of spell that grant frenzy. - Haven't heard about this one in a while.

Soul Theif can now target any single model and causes a wound with no save which is transferred to the sorceress. It likely has a limit of twice her starting wounds. - Another old rumour which has gone unconfirmed for a while now. Seems reasonable though.

Black horror to gain increased range. - Meh. Probably true. No big deal though.

Chillwind to gain +1S. - Probably true - thanks to Lord Aries again.

Two casting values for Doombolt. - Another long unconfirmed rumour recently confirmed by Lord Aries.

Right this is the situation as it stands now. What do we think?

It seems like alot of the rumours from the rumour roundup thread are coming true so that's probably a good basis for further discussion because I'm nice I've transcribed most of them here.

Whew.

- Salvage

**Gitkikka**

Boss_Salvage wrote:
- may take a magical standard of max 50 points (there is one that nullifies Stupidity).

Ha-HA! Take that, Gav!

I wonder if the basic Cold One statline has the 7" or 8" movement - I read the bit about the purebreds, so they probably still have the slower value.

**Boss Salvage**

Yeah, at first I was like, well there's an always taken banner, way to basically just increase the cost of cold one knights and take away their stupidity. But then I realized, if you take Anti-Stupid banner then you can't take any of the other sex-on-a-stick banners available ... Like the +1AS banner, or the 2x Attaks banner (which is probably a BSB one), or the 5+ ward banner ...

- Salvage

**Solasun**

If Morthai gets a new model we'll see if GW has turned massively prude when it comes to Slaanesh!

And that's not said to be either a positive or negative!

**winterman**

I have been intrigued by the leaked dark elf photos, enough to consider starting an army. I'm pretty ignorant of the rules of WHFB but I've heard that dark elves are one the weakest armies in the game. Is there a significant boost from the current rules based on the rumors? I don't need to play an overpowered list or anything but I'd like to have somewhat of a fighting chance being a newb and all.

**Schepp himself**

I don't want to start a new army...I don't want to start a new army...I don't want to...

Damn, I always loved the style of the Dark Elves and the new rumors sound pretty nice (especially with new models).

I simply know that I won't start'em, though. Fortunately, I have pretty good self control. On the rumors: Sounds like Dark elves will get a further boost un offensive power which I really like. If all the elves play vastly different, I don't feel like playing the same army in either bright,emo or hippie-look...

Greets
Schepp himself

**Boss Salvage**

For me a lot comes down to the basic (plastic) core troops for an army, and Dark Elves have failed the test with the ape-fisted warriors. With repeaters they don't look that bad, but spears = blerg. Rumors suggest there won't be new plastic warriors produced, so I dodge another new army bullet

- Salvage

**fellblade**

winterman wrote:I have been intrigued by the leaked dark elf photos, enough to consider starting an army. I'm pretty ignorant of the rules of WHFB but I've heard that dark elves are one the weakest armies in the game. Is there a significant boost from the current rules based on the rumors? I don't need to play an overpowered list or anything but I'd like to have somewhat of a fighting chance being a newb and all.

6th edition DE were one of the weakest- at least if your playing style involves a stand-up fight. DE had to be all about points denial & maneuver & combined arms & ganging up on enemy units. They were challenging. I didn't start to win with them until I gave up on my big units of ranked infantry & Cold One Knights and pretending I was a hammer, and started using Dark Riders & Shades and pretending I was fog.

Actually, there is nothing much in these rumors that makes me think they've gotten a significant boost. I'm just happy that there's nothing in these rumors that says to me, "Quick, ebay your army before the new rules come out!" But I have expressed this opinion on other forums, and several folks (whose opinions I trust) have told me I will be pleasantly surprised when the army book comes out.

Here's hoping.

**BorderCountess**

Ditto what Fellblade said.

I lost most games early on when playing with blocks of units.

Then I dumped almost all the blocks in favor a fast, mobile list featuring Dark Riders, Cold One Chariots, Harpies, Shades... I could dance around the enemy and often only get into combat on MY terms, with 2 or 3 units charging at once.

Yes, they were challenging, but they weren't unwinnable.

What worries me is that the speed factor may go down a bit (not having the option to take chariots 2-for-1 blows - that was a fix they made AFTER the book came out last time!), but they seem to be getting a significant boost in HTH, where they freaking needed it.

One more thing - Hatred's cool and all, and Eternal Hatred even cooler, but it doesn't matter how much you hate somebody if you're DEAD. I don't see why if you're going to give an army-wide "always strike first" rule to one Elf army, you can't give it to all of them - or at least to the Dark Elves.

**Mannahnin**

Yeah, but RxBs and RxB pistols with AP will put a serious hurt on High Elves.

**Tacobake**

I like the cheaper fast cav.

**Chaplain Pallantide**

I am only tempted to do this army only if I base it around the very good looking corsairs! So I wonder if it'll be possible to do that?? Cause compared to the other units, the corsairs look dead sexy! Ok there I said it! They're dead sexy!

Ok sorry, enough out of me, but if the CoK's look as cool and dead sexy as the corsairs, then I will make an army out of both those units and not much else!

Thanks,
Chappy P!

**Ghaz**

Well, Corsairs are core in the current book and GW tends to save plastics for core units in WHFB so I'd say it's a good bet you'll be able to a Corsair themed army.

**H.B.M.C.**

There really is a stark difference between Fantasy rumour threads and 40K rumours threads.

Comparing this and the Vampire Counts threads to, say, Marines and Loyalist w/Spikes, this is so much more up-beat. People are looking forward to what seem to be a generally good amount of required and interesting changes, rather than dreading which options will be vanishing this time around.

One wonders why GW can't transfer this good will and, dare I say it, trust over to the 40K side of things.

BYE

**BorderCountess**

HBMC:

I think there are two reasons why.

1) 40k, to me, seems far more ultra-competitive an environment than WHFB. Lists are tweaked much more extensively as a result. Which leads to...

2) 40k also seems to favor particular setups, and when a Codex gets changed, certain options and units immediately become undesirable, and people seem forced to go play something else.

Doesn't happen as much in WHFB (except my Tzeencth army is getting totally hosed by breaking Chaos into three separate armies). When the new Empire book came, it had minimal impact in how I field that army. Same seems to be holding true with Dark Elves. 40k changes tend to be more dramatic.

**fellblade**

And too, it seems that 40K codecies tend to get revised/updated a lot more frequently than Fantasy army books. The Orks are a notable exception, but how many 'Nid books were there in 3rd edition? How many times did they mess with the Tau? How many times did IG get changed around? Some of us Fantasy players were feeling neglected, that GW could put out two or three codecies for a single 40K army, but not give us Chaos Dwarfs.

During 6th edition, the Dark Elves got a much needed revision, and the Dwarf army book got a sort of version 6.5, but all the other armies stayed with what they had from the day they were published. That was what, a seven-year stretch? Frankly, I think most Fantasy players are ready for a change to their army books, it helps keep things interesting.

And let's face it, currently the Dark Elves are the army in greatest need of a change, and most DE players cannot conceive of anything GW can do to the army that would actually make it weaker.

The VC were stale. The HE really needed a boost. The changes to Empire were minimal (and greatly needed in the case of the Steam Tank). The worst of the new army books really was the first, O&G, and it basically got hit with the bland-hammer, not the nerf-bat.

**fellblade**

Although the Chaos mortal list seems to be getting ruined. Still, it's a get-you-by list, and most folks are willing to put their toys on the shelf for a few months, rather than ebay them and walk away.

**malfred**

I think a lot of places and people will just let you play the
Hordes of Chaos book until the Mortals book comes out.

**skyth**

One other thing to consider is that 40k seems to be more focused on WYSIWYG, whereas everyone in a regiment is equipped the same in Fantasy.

The guy in full plate on the horse could be a templar grand master, an elector count, or a captain...With any combination of magic items. If they took away your favorite magic item, modeling is no big deal as it usually isn't modeled. Whereas if they say that Veteran sergeants can't have lightning claws, then that creates an issue in 40k.

Basically, it's easier to adapt to changes in Fantasy than in 40k.

**Schepp himself**

skyth wrote:One other thing to consider is that 40k seems to be more focused on WYSIWYG, whereas everyone in a regiment is equipped the same in Fantasy.

The guy in full plate on the horse could be a templar grand master, an elector count, or a captain...With any combination of magic items. If they took away your favorite magic item, modeling is no big deal as it usually isn't modeled. Whereas if they say that Veteran sergeants can't have lightning claws, then that creates an issue in 40k.

Basically, it's easier to adapt to changes in Fantasy than in 40k.

Definately, but changes doesn't seem so dramatic, either. Units usually don't go from crap to awesome from one edition to another. They may change in effectiveness (or get another battlefield role) but are still pretty much usable if you are not the ultracompetitive guy.

I hadn't change one model in my Vampire army, even though I have played them in the last edition with the old army book.

I don't know if the rule is still in effect, but you only have to have roughly half the models in a unit with the right weapon choice modeled.

Greets
Schepp himself

**Darkness**

I thought that half modeled rule was for the Ulric list inStorm of Chaos.

**Schepp himself**

Darkness wrote:I thought that half modeled rule was for the Ulric list inStorm of Chaos.

Ok, the exact wording is now that it "is acceptable for a unit to include a minority of models that are differently armed for the sake of variety [...]." RB, page 54

The overall appearance shouldn't be misleading however. So it's fairly easy to have a unit of, say, skeletons with the one half spear armed and the other half handy weapon armed. The guys standing in front could be the ones with the "right" weapon load out.

But I've noticed that we getting off topic here.

Greets
Schepp himself