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I've become a pretty decent painter over the past few years and was wondering how I could get into starting a painting service or selling painted stuff on ebay. Im just looking for tips and tricks from people who've done it or know how to do it. I was thinking about just painting up models that I can buy for cheap and selling them on ebay but was wondering what the best way to do that is. Also if I am going to be doing this I'm going to need a camera Ive been looking at a Nikon d40 but I don't really want to spend that much, so if anyone has any tips on the best 2-300 dollar camera to buy I would really appreciate it. All ideas are welcome.

This would better fit in Dakka Discussions. I'm gonna move it over there.

I would think that you can take a two pronged approach to this. First, you can use your local game store as a channel. I would imagine the people there already know you and would be willing to buy units and other figures. The second channel I'd take is to sell the one-off pieces through e-bay. Characters and leaders such as Empire Warrior Priests, Ork nobs, war machines etc are always in demand and don't necessarily have to tie into a unit scheme. You can sell these on e-bay until you have developed a reputation and portfolio.

I agree with Ifurita, and would go further to recommend staying away from squads except on commission. I have seen a lot of very nicely painted units sell for little more than the set at retail on eBay. My guess would be that a very specific paint scheme like say Dark Angels makes the paint useless to someone who plays Blood Angels, for example.

There's two ways to go about this. One is to "go pro" and advertise with regular rates, etc. I advise you not to do this. The other way is doing small commissions like Wherkind and Ifurita suggested.

Make sure to publicise your work with images of your best quality figures. Don't forget the web site "cool mini or not."

If you take money off people, please, please deliver the stuff on time. And keep in contact with your customers. You will get repeat business by being reliable about that even more than the quality.

This would make a good start of a, "how to get into the professional painting business" article.

/me wheels turn

I am not convinced it is possible to become a professional painted of mass armies and make a good reliable living at it.

There are people already setting up painting services in places like Bangladesh. A wargamer guy does the management and local people do the painting. The Indian sub-continent has a long tradition of fine craft skills. (See Reinforcements By Post.)

China will be next. I would be tempted to go and set it up myself if I weren't already middle aged and married, etc.

Such services will beat the pants off a Euro or US based individual painter in terms of volume and cost per figure.

It may be possible to offer a "boutique" service where you profit on high cost, low volume orders painted to a very high standard.

This seems a more appealing approach for someone who is at the moment a hobbyist painting for himself, as it can be started as a sideline to a regular job.

I'd agree with Killkrazy. Unless you're so good that you can turn out super-looking stuff at a reasonable pace, or lots of stuff very fast, you'll probably make more working at McDonalds.

I've sold a few pieces on eBay from time to time, and when compared to the time I spent on them, I'd always have done better with a simple $7/hour job in terms of making cash.

As someone who enjoys painting more than collecting, selling what you paint after you've painted it can certainly turn your hobby into a self-funding venture. But I wouldn't look to pay the rent off it.

Some people make it big, there's a seller on eBay who paints the hasslefree stuff and it sells for a fortune, hundreds of dollars each.

But you have to be brutally honest about your painting standards, I've no idea what your painting is like (so I'm not directing this at you personally) but I think the truth is that if it isn't of competition standard then people will be annoyed by the description "pro-painted" and will buy it for little or no more than RRP often with the intention of stripping it.

But good luck, because some people do make good money from painting proving it's possible.

The painting service route is a bit more problematic if you don't have a lot of experience painting different types of models.

You're really going to want to have a set plan of attack with any squads you'll paint. If you're finding that you feel like you're experimenting, you're probably in a bad spot.

If you are serious about starting painting service or just painting the off hand squad for a commission, I'd highly suggest you go pick up a few squads and see just how fast you can pump out the squads at a reasonable level.

A good way to get noteriety is to win a few Painting Competitions (Golden Demons, Online Competitions, etc.) The more people know your name and know your style/ability, the more money you'll make.

Lunchbox from B&C won a Silver last year at Chicago and was quickly able to turn around and sell pretty much anything for a ridiculous price. He does some seriously quality work, but his ability to say "I've won a demon" definitely helps.

I think Redbeard hit it right on the nose. You need to compare what you think you can get for a squad vs. what you can make at another job in the same time. There is no way that painting would ever be profitable for me, even though I'm fairly fast. My free time is just too precious to me.

As grey_death pointed out, there has to be a compelling reason why people will be willing to pay a premium for your talent. It could be winning a Deamon or you could just develop a steady clientele. You might have a number of gamers at your LGS, who simply don't have the time to paint but have a lot of disposable income. That's a great market to tap.

There are broadly speaking two classes of painting service, the wargamer service and the collector service.

Wargamers want lots of figures painted to an OK standard quickly, to build up large armies. Collectors want small numebr of figures painted to a very high standard.

One thing that comes to mind is the girl at one of our FLGS. She works there all the time, and has a small side business painting patrons' figures or armies for a small fee, or sometimes in exchange for figures. She does very nice work and averages to less than 3$ a figure, which is fine for her because she gets to paint while she sits at the register counter.

I bring this up for two reasons.
1) If you can get a racket like hers, you are in good shape. She has contacts with all the local players, and everyone gets to see her work, usually on the other side of the table, or in her hands while she paints it. She doesn't need to make big bucks because she is already getting paid for the time. If you can mirror that, it can really be worth it.

2) You are going to be competing with people like her. As stated, she doesn't need to charge anything in particular. Pay her in minis, and she is fine, because her rent is paid, and she is just doing it as something nice to do while she works. Hell, I LIKE painting, and I have considered paying her to paint some models for me, because starting a 120 man ork army is daunting. Were it not for her back-log (something like a year) and having different painting styles to reconcile after she paints the bulk of my force, I would have done it.

So, if you have someone like that in your area, you need to figure out how to compete against them, or coexist. Maybe they have a backlog like her, and you can get the overflow. Maybe you can charge less, or offer significantly higher quality. Or maybe you specialize in say fancy characters and centerpeices, while she does mostly large squads and armies. It is definitely something you need to think about though before you tell your current boss you no longer need his money.

Or you could google "painting services" and find out what's already succesful and just use them.

FlatlanderBoss2.0 wrote:Or you could google "painting services" and find out what's already succesful and just use them.

Are you talking about acting as a middle man like, oh, a certain
someone who does such a thing with paintedfigs?

paintedfigs is the outsourced version of a professional shop.

Blue Table probably does a lot of the army work in the US just
because he's set it up so well.

Another option is to work for one of the studios like Blue Table. Of
course, then you'd have to move out to Utah...

Wehrkind brings up a good point. I did all of my commission work while I was in the Army. I was already getting a check. And at the time I was getting stuck on lots of 24 hour duty watching a phone not ring. So I would bring my work along with me and get paid double!

Something I think I could probably emulate with my job now....

I am also in the army and have enought free time, unfortunately I really dont have time to go to golden demons right now which sucks because I have been wanting to work on some stuff for them. But there is no way I can paint for a living, I just enjoy painting and would like to make some money off of it while I hone my skills, I just bought a new camera so Ill probably put an army profile up on here and some stuff up on cool mini or not. Thanks for all the help guys.

One more question though. One of the first posters said it might be best doing single models for ebay, what are the best models to use for that, I mean models that dont require a certain paint scheme or anything like that?

amenzer wrote:One more question though. One of the first posters said it might be best doing single models for ebay, what are the best models to use for that, I mean models that dont require a certain paint scheme or anything like that?

They mean showpiece models.

Army Leaders, Big Warmachines (Steam Tanks, Gyrocopters) and other items that can just "go" into any army and will make it look better even though it may be painted differently than the rest of it.

i.e. Homogenization only goes so far, even for the Fantasy types. Having a unit that stands out is considered a good thing.

That's where you can make some money, but people expect it to be very high quality.

i.e. Well above tabletop quality.

If you can do it that well and fast, then you might make money.

You have to decide what is your target and that depends on your portfolio and talent.

Armies Tabletop quality or singles display thats your first decision.

BOth already have well established studios so you need some kind of edge in watever area you choose to get into.

My advice is dont think your going to make relevant money and dont quit your day job.

amenzer wrote:One more question though. One of the first posters said it might be best doing single models for ebay, what are the best models to use for that, I mean models that dont require a certain paint scheme or anything like that?

Study the market and current offers on eBay.

Some painting companies offer a set unit option on a Buy It Now price. Terms of the auction are you pay and they then paint the figures and deliver in 2-3 weeks. The picture on display is representative. You can offer the same quality for any colour scheme of a known chapter or the buyer's own selection.

You could for example paint up a Terminator squad and offer it. When buyers come, you have to purchase, paint and despatch the figures in good time and quality.

That is a really good idea Killkrazy. It also is a good way of getting around the "Damn, looks good but doesn't match my army" issue.
I might go so far as to say that the picture should be of a few figures in different paint schemes because invariably potential buyers will get confused, or just look at the pic and keep going. Still, a good plan if you don't want to paint things because you want to paint them, and try to sell them as a secondary concern.

amenzer wrote:I am going to be doing this I'm going to need a camera Ive been looking at a Nikon d40 but I don't really want to spend that much, so if anyone has any tips on the best 2-300 dollar camera to buy I would really appreciate it. All ideas are welcome.

Here is a camera. I'm fond of Canon, I've shot film and digital for 10+ years. There is no reason to spend more than 200-300 on a camera unless you intend on making it a serious hobby. Most people don't know how to take good photo's and that is the problem. A great expensive camera can't make the photo's look better than your skill at using it. The only thing you really need is a macro function, and learn a little about lighting.

Any modern digital compact with Live View and macro function can be used successfully.

Good lighting is the key to model photography.

One other warning word: way back in the day I did a little bit of "pro painting" for a miniatures company who used them to illustrate their catalogue. I got paid in models, which was nice. BUT I found it rapidly drained my love of the activity. So much so I quit after only a couple of units. It turned out that while I love painting, what I really love is building my collection. Painting just for painting's sake sucked and rapidly became as boring as my day job. So I stopped, and now only paint what I want, when I want.

Of course such a reaction is purely personal, and YMMV. Just something to be conscious of is all, as it was something that came out of the blue to me and took a while to sink in, and all the while I was getting grumpier and more miserable until the penny dropped!

Some things money can't buy, and one of them is my time back!

The army market is brutal. I would suggest character / diorama / showcase pieces.

Focus on:
- Customer service. The best you can. Don't be afraid to lose money on it (and you will).
- Creative range. Do everything from painting freehand glyphs on stone bases, to building Hindu temples for DBA.
- Quality. Offer some damned good painting.
- Time to delivery. You have to be fast.

Don't even bother to compete on price.

If you DO want to do army painting, get the Citadel Washes, match Blue Table pricing, and focus on customer service, consistent quality, and above all time to delivery. And build a team. If you cannot scale, you cannot make any money on volume painting.

The cheapest painting I'm aware of is Reinforcements By Post who charge 22p for a single 6mm figure. It sounds a lot for such a small figure especially when a player needs lots of them to make an army.

You have to figure out the money you want/need from painting and calculate how many figures you need to sell per month to earn that.

For example, if your workshop overhead (rent, power, equipment and so on) is £500 a month, you would need to sell 2,272 6mm figures just to cover your costs, let alone pay yourself a salary.

It's another good reason not to go pro in a hurry.

Osbad wrote:One other warning word: way back in the day I did a little bit of "pro painting" for a miniatures company who used them to illustrate their catalogue. I got paid in models, which was nice. BUT I found it rapidly drained my love of the activity. So much so I quit after only a couple of units. It turned out that while I love painting, what I really love is building my collection. Painting just for painting's sake sucked and rapidly became as boring as my day job. So I stopped, and now only paint what I want, when I want.

I was asked to join a contracting painting group a long time ago, and while it was flattering, I turned them down for the same reasons. Painting figures is a hobby that helps me relax. The last thing I want to do is to turn that hobby into a job, which I think would take away a lot of the enjoyment.

I've painted pro for 2 yrs, Its hard. but it sure beats working a normal job. I SWIM IN AN OCEAN OF MINIS 2-4-7!
it gets a bit sickening at times. Like eating cotton candy all the time, even if you are not hungry. cotton candy nothing but cotton candy.
i.e I rarely have time to work on my own figs, and when I do have time the last thing I want to do is paint more. Gaming is hard to get into. It used to be all I wanted to do, You literaly have to sell your soul. cotton candy...

....... and some times the figures squirm in your fingers like they don't want to be painted. One time this black ork got me with a great weapon. drew blood, ingreatful little bugger.

Seriously- I love it, I will do it untill I die- You have to love painting figs, and paint all the time ALL THE TIME..COTTON CANDY
Table top wargames rule