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When i picked up the 4th ed ork codex I fell in love with the Deff koptas. Twin linked rokkits for some mobile anti-tank. Big booms for anti-troop. Then I started making lists. Play testing and now they can't take table quarters I'm falling out of love again =(. However they have their uses. Noone can deny having a S6 fast attack with 2 wounds (S8 on charge) and a 4+ save isn't pretty sweet. But not when its 60 points a model (this assumes you only took the buzz saw!) There are more effective ways in dealing with large mobs of troops. The validity of anti-tank seems alright at only 45 points a model but doing damage seems pretty hard since S8 will on majority will GLANCE at AV12 at best be able to glance an AV14 this assumes it can hit with its BS of 2. No anti-tank seems pretty flimsy (but I guess that's always been a problem for orks). However at 50 points a model you can take a bigboom and each kopta can take it so 5 koptas have a pie plate with S4 AP5 that only scatters D6" -2. You can drop these even when turbo boosting so it seems like an effective way of thinning out the horde. But with 5 koptas with booms your looking at 250 points which could be 30 boys with a nob, powerclaw and some change. So with these three options are the koptas really worth it?

That'll depend on what else is in your army, and what you want to do with those Deff Koptas.

I lost favor with dethcopters when I realized it was a draw between them and buggies. Buggies can't assault, but dethcopters can't Hit and Run with an sort of certainty anymore. So I'd never assault with them again.

So it back to buggies. Cheaper, same firepower, same objective contesting, same cover save if used correctly.

Deffkoptas (new model) are very hard to get cover saves without putting them in terrain (which forces dangerous terrain tests). Buggies get cover from grots. lol

I think a unit of 5 w/ a couple of buzsaws, coming on from the table sides, could be pretty scary as a assault unit. Fire first, then charge, get a few S7 PK hits, with 10 T(5) wounds to soak hits.

I agree it can be.

Their init leaves much to be desired.

What happens if they break you with shooting (they have alot of it) or worse yet, kill what they shot up in CC?

My only concern is when you face a speed bump unit. Do you shoot it? Or not? For me, that's the problem with combo shooty and CC units.

I will find out. Great new models=Field it!

wouldn't they be handy for getting those annoying dev squads that sit right back on the edge of the table?
I play marines but have been encouraging my friend to try them as i think they will work well if used right.
Rear shots on tanks and small annoying units like my devs. His new big mob to do the combats.

He previously used 12 man mobs and was to easy to kill.
I want him to kill me so i have a challenging game.
A close game is better then a slaughter.

I can't say how useful they will be, but they are definitely being added to my Orks next month. models look too cool to pass up and easy to work with as they are plastic.

IMO, they seem like great Tank hunters coming in from a tables edge and shooting the side armor of a tank with the Rokkits and then charging in with the Buzzsaw against rear armor.

And against turtling IG/Tau armies, they will tie up and actually kill units in CC which is really useful.

I think they're also useful as a suicide squad if you have spare points.

For 60 points you get a model with a power fist, 3 attacks, and a 54" range (12" deploy + 24" turbo scout + 12" move + 6" charge) on turn 1. If you know you have first turn you can hit almost anything on the board and you'll get free rear armor hits on vehicles since they haven't moved yet.

If you don't get first turn, well, it was only 60 points.

I may be wrong, but you can't assault after having turbo-boosted no?

I agree with Voodoo, they are primarily anti-tank units, assault units second. The surprise factor of their flanking especially against any sort of gun line is pure goodness.

If I where playing Orks, I would take a unit of them just in case I come across a Tau/Guard/Marine army with Ordanace tanks.

They are also useful against Eldar if the player is conservative with their Falcons or only loosely holds their deployment objectives.

They can be useful against Tyranids if your opponent fields rear gaurd shooting (like Carnifexes or Zoeys), or they can drop bombs on Gaunt hordes.

They can even drop DE Raiders out of the sky.

I would rather have Deff Choppas then Buggies any days. Sure a buggie can get a cover save more often, but their low armor, makes them easy enough to pop rather quickly. Especially from things like Assault Cannons, Autocannon Heavy Weapon teams, and any sort of Tyranid shooting.

I think you take a unit of 4-5 with twin-linked rokkits and a big bomb or two, and use them to outflank. Maybe take 1 buzzsaw. They're not an assault unit, they're a shooting unit that has enough T and armor to hold up a small shooting unit for a couple turns. I think they're the best flanking tank-hunting unit for orks.

I may rethink my opinion when a new buggy kit comes out. I think it depends what else is in the list. If you have trukks to move fast and give buggies saves, they might be better. Being a vehicle has some advantages, but I think the outflank is pretty big.

Danny Internets wrote:I think they're also useful as a suicide squad if you have spare points.

They used to be. Unfortunately, suicide units are a big liability in 1/3rd of 5e missions. You're either going to give up a kill-point, or spend all game hiding. In the other two missions, the best you accomplish is denying an opponent an objective, not actually claiming one yourself. I'm not sure suicide units have a lot of value unless you can be sure you'll take out something of the opponent's too. One deathkopta can do it, but I wouldn't want to gamble a KP on it.

What they can be useful for is flying at objectives to contest them on turn 5. Generally send 3 single deffcoptas in is good as the enemy wastes firepower killing single coptas.

I'm wondering how deth copters set up vs nob bikers. Because of the no assaulting after turbo boosting, I wonder which could get to vehicles safer? I'll probably look into it when I expand my 1750 list to 1850 or 2000.

Nob Bikers with FNP are always > Deffkoptas.

Point values do matter to a degree. Especially if your looking at accessories to a list and not its core.

Nob Bikers can be core.

Deffkoptas, cannot be.

Difference between the units without any upgrades:

4 each.

Nobs get +1 Str, +2 Attacks, +1 Init, and FNP.

For 70 points.

And can count as troops if you have a warboss.

They lose half the range of their guns but you aren't running either unit for that joy.

Just saying what I've always said, Deffkoptas have a place but not in my armies or my playstyle.

Depends on how you field them. I don't plan on throwing deffkoptas into assaults, except against small, isolated units and vehicles. I plan on using deffkoptas as anti-tank because they can outflank and get twin-linked rokkits. Just throwing down in assault, Nob Bikers will always come out ahead.

I would say that I'd use deffkoptas if I have the points for it. For my competitive build, I take 2 looted wagons for the cheap str8 ap3 large blast. However, in my other build, I'd take koptas, 3 of them, to substitute for the wagons. 3 TL rokkits, w/ outflank, str 7 on back AV, total 6 wounds and T5 are just hard to kill, IMO.

The only bad thing about it is the morale check that I must do if I ever get shot at for some reason. Of course that means that I did something wrong if they get shot at. Anyhow, I'd say they are one of the tankhunters for orks. BTW, only 3 stuffs I'd considered as tankhunter units: warbike warboss, deffkoptas and Lootas (for light ones).

I think Deff Coptas might be worth it if you took advantage of the new wound allocation system. Each one can be equipped differently, meaning the unit has to be dealt 5 wounds before you start losing models.

Or do as I do, beat them in CC and run them down.

Played a game today on a 4x4 table vs nids. I got to go first. Deploying my koptas at the 12" mark. Then before the game began they moved another 12" Ork turn they turbo bust 24 inches and drop bombs on top of his gaunts. They scatter 1d6" - 2 and kill on a 4+. Seems pretty worth while to me. (and oh yes. they died shortly there after. It was two squads of 1 kopta each totaling to 100 points so I guess they didn't pay for themselves but it sure was an interesting time killing his troops turn one during the movement phase!

In case anyone wants to contest the legality of this the codex states the bombs can be dropped at ANY time (even after a turbo boost)

Yes, the bombs they drop can do this.

About as good as the swooping hawk yo-yo.

I'm thinking of including a small unit in my new 5th edition speed freaks army. I'm thinking rokkits and klaws are the way to go.
It's either that, or a trukk full of kombi-rokkit toting meganobz.

They might be good to deal with pesky whirlwinds and stuff like that