Ard Boyz Rules Problem

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Minus67**

I need to bring attention to this. I will be running one of the Ard Boyz Tournaments. The list of Approved Armies includes Armored Company. Upon viewing this i realized that under 5th edition rules armored company has no scoring units. I made a phone call to my sales rep ( the trade sales team is in charge of the event) about the issue. He told me this.

GW Rep:" their troop tanks are scoring"
Me: " but pg. 95 says they cant be"
GW Rep: " They get a special Rule"

I was confused so did some more research but came back to the simple fact that they shouldn't be scoring, so i called him again.

Me:" should i run my ard boyz event with scoring lemen russes?"
GW Rep: " yes."

I want to see if any other region got this answer or can get this answer since this decision is flat wrong and stupid. It will be awful to play in two rounds where they are scoring and get to the finals and find out they are not.

Talk to your organizer and get them to call their sales rep and post what you can find out.
Minus67 is online now Report Post Edit/Delete Message

**mikhaila**

I'm also running the event, and have heard nothing about a special rule for armored company. Basically, as it stands, they need to wipe the other guy off the board to get a win. Or tie up objectives so that no one has one, and win on victory points. Or take Inquisitional allies to have a couple of non-vehicle troops.

But not good that a GW rep is saying one thing, and others something else.

**Minus67**

Ask your trade rep guy and see what he says

**GrandWarmasterPinto**

That just sounds sloppy on GW's part. Maybe they didn't think anyone would actually play Armored Company.

**Deadshane1**

They better think again, I already know two people doing it.

One has two infantry based troop units, the other has none, all tanks.

**Deathmachine**

i heard that some tanks are scoring units for the armored company. but not sure if the guy i heard this from is correct.

**mikhaila**

Unless GW posts something in an FAQ, or part of the 'ardboyz rules, they don't have any scoring units.

Scoring units in 5th edtion are 'non vehicle troops choices'. Any infantry in AC are from fast attack, with tanks being the 'troops'. If they don't take allies, AC have no units that can hold an objective.

**Sarigar**

I agree. I'd have to see it in some type of writing from GW to allow this. Someone claiming over the phone that an Armored Company vehicle can now score as opposed to no other vehicle in the game.

**Minus67**

I agree, but what as an organizer am i to do?

**Death By Monkeys**

As with everything else in life - "Get it in writing." As an organizer - make an executive decision. If folks are going to bring AC, according to RAW, they shouldn't expect to be getting any scoring units.

**Minus67**

i really need some other organizer to call their trade rep and post here.

**mikhaila**

We could all call our trade reps, and get 10 different answers. I brought up the subject a month ago, and there were no exceptions to the rules at that time. What your basically asking is

"Has GW made a special rule for AC?" , and the answer to that is 'no'. Will they make a special rule? Doubtful, but who knows? I'll be content to actually find out how to score the missions, and what the 4 bonus points are for each mission. I was hammering on that question yesterday.

**quietus86**

we juist say troops are sqoring in tank companies there are peaple in the tank that kan hold a opjectif.

**Valhallan42nd**

I pm'ed a GW promo guy. Let's see if they weigh in on the subject.

**Blackmoor**

Not every army has to have to have an easy path to win. Especially an army that is from a prior edition of the rules that do not have a codex or an FAQ.

What I think trade services did was just take the armies from last years ‘Ard Boyz and did not realize with a change in editions that these armies (in GW HQ eyes) no longer exist to the point that they do not even have any FAQs written about them to make them 5th edition compatible.

So for AC, if you make Tanks scoring that makes AC way to powerful in 5th edition with tanks being more survivable, and the lessening of heavy weapons.

If you do not make them scoring, then they have trouble getting scoring units on the table.

IMO If someone takes an army that in not compatible with 5th edition. Then they should be more challenging to win with.

**Minus67**

the simple fact that different answers exist is all i need to hear. If we get 10 different answers than ill tell the rep to blow it out his ass and play with the rules as they are written in the rule book

**Valhallan42nd**

I think people at GW are aware of this problem, and I'm hoping they might be able to address it. They're probably having just as spirited a debate as we are. I still say LR=Vehicle=No capturing obj, but we'll see.

**Polonius**

Well, the primary rule for tournaments is that the Organizer gets to answer any rules questions. I think it's more important to answer any players questions, and then be consistent with your ruling, than to be "correct."

In terms of fairness, I agree with Blackmoor. It'd be far more unfair to have 6 nearly unkillable troops choices than to force AC players to add a squad of sisters or stormtroopers as allies to hold an objective or two. Essentially, given a conflict between a players army and the overall paradigm, I think it's more fair to make that player adapt, rather than force every other player to revert to the old paradigm.

**ubermosher**

Polonius wrote:Well, the primary rule for tournaments is that the Organizer gets to answer any rules questions. I think it's more important to answer any players questions, and then be consistent with your ruling, than to be "correct."

In terms of fairness, I agree with Blackmoor. It'd be far more unfair to have 6 nearly unkillable troops choices than to force AC players to add a squad of sisters or stormtroopers as allies to hold an objective or two. Essentially, given a conflict between a players army and the overall paradigm, I think it's more fair to make that player adapt, rather than force every other player to revert to the old paradigm.

Unkillable? Please. CC rules alone make tanks much more killable. I know in my local area there will likely be a proliferation of outflanking genestealers, which will put a huge hurting on tanks (not to mention Flyrants and running 'Fexes). Besides, you don't have to kill them. Immobilize them, stun them, make them maneuver to get to objective, thereby reducing their firepower effectiveness and get them that much closer to your running dedicated assault units.

I'd be a lot more concerned about an ork 180 scoring model army vs a 6 scoring model army that doesn't have to be killed, only neutralized.

And you have to figure that at least one of the missions will be Annihilation, rendering the whole scoring unit thing moot.

**mecureal**

The list for the finals is seperated from the rest because of the codex change in mid tournament. The approved list for the finals is very limited and only has armies that require no special rule adjustments. If I get one or more all armor armies I intend to run my little tourney with the fifth edition rules but will use the 4th edition scoring unit rule. This should even things out. I will ensure that all players are aware of my intent in enough time before the event to make any army adjustments they want. I also intend to ensure that the qualifiers know that the folks running the semi finals for our area my not be of the same mind concerning what is a scoring unit. And finally if their army is not on the approved finals list they will not be able to use it in the finals. Hopefully this will push players toward using the armies on the approved finals list thus eliminating any problems.

**Valhallan42nd**

mecureal wrote:I ran a 'Ard Boyz torney last year and will be running one again this. I didn't wait for my package to come in, I went to the website and pulled one down. On the second page of da rulz you will find the appoved army lists. The list for the finals is seperated from the rest because of the codex change in mid tournament. The approved list for the finals is very limited and only has armies that require no special rule adjustments to work under the 5th edition. If I get one or more all armor armies I intend to run my little tourney with the fifth edition rules but will use the 4th edition scoring unit rule. This should even things out. I will ensure that all players are aware of my intent in enough time before the event to make any army adjustments they want. I also intend to ensure that the qualifiers know that the folks running the semi finals for our area my not be of the same mind concerning what is a scoring unit. And finally if their army is not on the approved finals list they will not be able to use it in the finals. Hopefully this will push players toward using the armies on the approved finals list and make my life easier.

So, are you allowing all non- "dedicated transport" units to score then?

EDIT: By that, I mean such as terminators, Land Raiders, whirlwinds, predators, etc?

**mecureal**

If the 4th edition scoring unit rules call for it I will have to allow it. But believe me I will be campaigning to move any "track heads" on to new and different armies.

**Danny Internets**

mecureal wrote:If the 4th edition scoring unit rules call for it I will have to allow it. But believe me I will be campaigning to move any "track heads" on to new and different armies.

I sincerely hope you'll be telling GW before you host their tournament that you won't be bothering with the rules that they've given you for said tournament.

**mecureal**

Danny Internets wrote:
mecureal wrote:If the 4th edition scoring unit rules call for it I will have to allow it. But believe me I will be campaigning to move any "track heads" on to new and different armies.

I sincerely hope you'll be telling GW before you host their tournament that you won't be bothering with the rules that they've given you for said tournament.

Thanks for pointing that little problem out for me, I'm not worried about GW, remember their first rule is to have fun and make it work.
Although in a tourney situation where qualifiers will have to adhere to 5th edition and "Ard Boyz" rules I would be doing them a diservice by going so far off the reservation.

**skkipper**

I called a Gw rep and he said that my army with 88 berzerkers um um auto wins yeah that's it. I automaticly win all games cause 88 berzerkers are just that cool.

really tanks=scoring only works if they post it on the "rules" site. until then it is just a made up rule

**GrandWarmasterPinto**

Sometimes you have to make things up for people to be able to have fun. I don't think anyone enjoys when their army is made nearly unplayable.

**General Hobbs**

You guys are forgetting this is the Ard Boyz tournament. It is for the best players. If you think you can table an opponent with an AC, bring it on.

I challenge Stelek to take an AC and win the thing....

That's what Ard Boyz is about.

**Danny Internets**

GrandWarmasterPinto wrote:Sometimes you have to make things up for people to be able to have fun. I don't think anyone enjoys when their army is made nearly unplayable.

Let's come back to reality now and realize that there probably isn't a player on this planet who uses exclusively Armored Company. I can't even remember seeing someone field one since 3rd edition. And of those who even have an Armored Company list, how many of them actually anticipate being able to use it in tournaments? Using the tournament rules as they are provided is a disservice to no one.

**GrandWarmasterPinto**

I'm not saying it's a certainty someone is going to bring one. I just don't think if someone does they should be screwed because of either a really lazy attempt to force people not to play it anymore or just a simple oversight by developers who don't want to say it's illegal now. It's a game where the goal is to have fun, not penalize someone for their choice of army.

**Blackmoor**

GrandWarmasterPinto wrote:I'm not saying it's a certainty someone is going to bring one. I just don't think if someone does they should be screwed because of either a really lazy attempt to force people not to play it anymore or just a simple oversight by developers who don't want to say it's illegal now. It's a game where the goal is to have fun, not penalize someone for their choice of army.

If I played against an Armored Company I would not have any fun.