Trench-Raider wrote:Ah cool. Dakka's "off topic" forum permits political discussions. Being something of a political junky, I like a good debate. Here is something I have been asking the leftists at some of the blogs I post to:

Why on earth are you people supporting a racist? I mean it's safe to say that most Obama supporters (perhaps even the vast majority) are left leaning. And almost without exception most leftists have very negative opinions or even hatred for "racism" and "racists". Many of you supoort things like "hate crime" laws and the like and some of the more extreme amongst you consider "racists" to be almost as bad as real criminals like murderers and child molesters. So with this in mind, why are you throwing your support behind a candidate who is clearly a racist?

Now hear me out. Don't just write me off as a "Right Wing nut". (well, at least half of that statement is indeed true! ) Consider the following.

What if John McCain (or any White Republican candidate for that matter. I'm just using him as an example because he's running this year) had been an active member of a Christian Identity church such as the Church of Jesus Christ Christian (google it) for about 23 years? Moreover, what if he had a very close relationship with that church's pastor and only distanced himself from the church when the media began to pay attention? What if he took his two young children to be exposed to the hate and racism preached by that church? What if McCain were very careful not to be seen publicly agreeing with his church's teachings, but he on occasion let slip with racist comments that would seem to inidicate that he shared their world view? (ie in one famous incident he refered to "typical black people") What if he had previously written a book in which be betrayed an apparent distain for black people? What if his wife were an angry White woman who was a member of said Christian Identity church before McCain was and who's views seemed to be if anything more radical than her husbands? What if years before she had written a paper in college in which she had said that she was "White first and American second"?

I can almost garentee what the answer would be: those of you on the left would (correctly) dencounce him as a racist. You would be howling for his blood and calling for his resignation from public office
Every.
Single.
Day.
Reverse the race and the political ideology of the person I described above and you have Mr. Obama. So I ask again, why are you supporting a racist?
Is it:
-Because of that little "D" next to his name that earns him a pass?
-Because he's black and you buy into the rediculous notion that blacks are somehow not capable of racism or that racism amongst them is somehow excusable?
-Is it because you agree with anti-White racism?
-Or is it some other reason?

I have my own suspicions, but I'm curious to hear from this guy's supoporters.

TR

Crimson Devil wrote:Trench-Raider, the name is familiar? Were you banned from an earlier version of Dakka?

Your question is BS. You constructed it with the intention of getting Obama supporters angry. Hoping for an emotional response you can then rip apart. I doubt you care about the actual answer.

capitolhillblue.com wrote:
McCain: racist, bigot & homophobe
August 1, 2008 - 7:14am.
By DOUG THOMPSON

John McCain, a member of the House of Representatives in the mid-1980s, often held court at a table near the bar at Bullfeathers, a popular Capitol Hill watering hole, telling jokes and matching hangers-on drink by drink.

As a Capitol Hill chief of staff, I often drank at Bullfeathers and was invited to join the throng at McCain's table one evening. A few minutes listening to the racism, bigotry and homophobia of the Arizona Congressman told me all I needed to know.

McCain loved to tell jokes about lesbians, blacks, Hispanics and the Vietnamese community that occupied a large section of Arlington County, Virginia, just south of the District of Columbia.

Of course, McCain didn't use polite language in the jokes: He used names like "fags" or "queers" or "dykes" or "[see forum posting rules]" or "[see forum posting rules]" or "wetbacks" or "[see forum posting rules]."

A typical McCain joke (overheard at Bullfeathers):

Two dykes are talking at a bar and one leaves. As she walks toward the door, the other watches her leave and says out loud: "God, I've love to eat her out."

Two men are standing near by and one turns to the other and says: "I'd like to do the same. Guess that makes me a dyke."

Or another (also overheard at Bullfeathers):

"Question: Why does Mexican beer have two "X's" on the label?

Answer: Because wetbacks always need a co-signer.

(McCain has a documented history of lesbian jokes. He's also come under fire for other jokes about rape.)

Example:

Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?

Because Janet Reno is her father.

Another example:

Did you hear the one about the woman who is attacked on the street by a gorilla, beaten senseless, raped repeatedly and left to die? When she finally regains consciousness and tries to speak, her doctor leans over to hear her sigh contently and to feebly ask, ‘Where is that marvelous ape?’

When he ran for the Senate, I attended a gathering of GOP operatives at the National Republican Senatorial Committee where McCain outlined his campaign strategy:

I play to win. I do whatever it takes to win. If I have to fu** my opponent to win I'll do it. If I have to destroy my opponent I won't give it a second thought.

McCain's so-called sense of humor has no limits when it comes to simple human decency. Shortly after former President Ronald Reagan announced he had Alzheimer's Disease, McCain told this joke at a GOP Fundraiser:

Do you know the best thing about having Alzheimer's?

You get to hide your own Easter eggs.

Even his wife is not immune. Writes Cliff Schecter in his book, The Real John McCain:

Three reporters from Arizona, on the condition of anonymity, also let me in on another incident involving McCain's intemperateness. In his 1992 Senate bid, McCain was joined on the campaign trail by his wife, Cindy, as well as campaign aide Doug Cole and consultant Wes Gullett. At one point, Cindy playfully twirled McCain's hair and said, "You're getting a little thin up there." McCain's face reddened, and he responded, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cu**." McCain's excuse was that it had been a long day. If elected president of the United States, McCain would have many long days.

This is the man the Republican Party thinks should be the next President of the United States. What else should we expect from a party that promotes racism, homophobia and discrimination against anyone with a different skin color, sexual orientation or ethnic origin?

So we shouldn't be surprised that McCain's campaign strategy seeks to raise racial fear about Barack Obama, the first African-American with a serious shot at the Presidency of the United States.

John McCain is a racist: Always has been, always will be. A retired Naval officer who says he served with McCain in the Navy says he treated black sailors with disrespect and scorn. McCain refuses to release his detailed military record and some sources say that record includes incidents that include issues with black sailors.

Such attitudes are part of his family history. As noted by a black poster in Talking Points Memo:

I can't love America the same way John McCain does. When his daddy was Admiral, my daddy was mopping floors. And when his granddaddy was Admiral, all the Blacks in the entire Navy were mopping floors. But they still volunteered and went to war, even when their commanders didn't think they were brave enough to fight. So who loves America more? The cook on the ship who couldn't vote in 15 states, or the Admiral who dined on the meals he slaved over?

McCain's collection of off-color jokes are riddled with racist words and sentiments. Advisors have toned down the raunchy rhetoric of his early years in Congress but close aides say his attitudes have not changed.

McCain opposed making the birthday of slain civil rights leader Martin Luther King a national holiday. During his 2000 campaign for President, he told reporters on his "Straight Talk Express: "I hated the [see forum posting rules] (North Vietnamese). I will hate them as long as I live."

Katie Hong of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, who reported the remark, wrote:

It is offensive because by using a racial epithet that has historically been used to demean all Asians to describe his captors, McCain failed to make a distinction between his torturers and an entire racial group.

It is alarming because a major candidate for president publicly used a racial epithet, refused to apologize for doing so and remains a legitimate contender.

For his 2000 campaign for President, McCain hired Richard Quinn, founder and editor in chief of Southern Heritage Magazine, to serve as his spokesman in South Carolina.

Notes Salon.Com:

Quinn's articles have called Nelson Mandela a "terrorist" and King a man "whose role in history was to lead his people into a perpetual dependence on the welfare state, a terrible bondage of body and soul." In another piece, Quinn said of former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke, "What better way to reject politics as usual than to elect a maverick like David Duke?" though he did condemn Duke's bigotry.

Irwin A. Tank, author of [see forum posting rules]: John McCain's Racism, notes a long and sordid history of racism from the presumptive GOP nominee, including:

McCain's use of the anti-Asian slur "[see forum posting rules]" publicly for 27 years before dropping the use for his current Presidential run;
McCain's endorsement of George Wallace Jr., a frequent speaker at white supremacist events;
His vote against establishing a holiday for Martin Luther King's birthday and then another vote to rescind the holiday.
In answering a question about divorced fathers and child support, McCain called the children "tar babies."
The list goes on and on.

What else do you expect from a racist, bigot and homophobe?

Mannahnin wrote:Trench-Raider, are you sure you want to argue against Obama on this basis?

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/cont/node/10086

Could you find me some racist quotes from Obama, please?

Grignard wrote:

Are you incapable of responding to an argument, that should be fairly easy to refute, by using a unbiased source?

Grignard wrote:
I also think that it would help if some of you were a little nicer when responding. None of you had to insult the OP just because you disagreed with him.

Polonius wrote:

Grignard wrote:
I also think that it would help if some of you were a little nicer when responding. None of you had to insult the OP just because you disagreed with him.

I tried to be nice in my initial post, but as I pointed out later, it wasn't a fair or nice question. It was stacked and stilted and clearly meant to anger. He lists three reasons he can think of for voting for Obama:
1) being a party loyalist
2) Being stupid (assuming black people can't be racist, which he says is a "rediculous [sic] notion"
3) Being anti-white ourselves, or
4) Some other reason.

Seriously, we're supposed to be nice to this guy? I believe that civility is key, but a the OP insulted the candidate and his supporters, and had the gall to claim it was "an honest question?" I find fault in responding angrily, but let's not pretend this was anything other than a churlish question meant to entice heat, not any genuine query.

dietrich wrote:This is going somewhat off-topic. Obama is being sold as the first African-American Presidential Candidate. He's only half black. His mother, who raised him with her parents, is white. His father, who is of African ancestry, wasn't around and, iirc, had very little influence on his upbringing, and has not spoken with his son for long periods of time. I imagine that based on his age and where they lived (I'm thinking Kansas, but I might be wrong), meant that he probably wasn't accepted by any racial community when he was young - he was too black to be accepted by many white and too white to be accepted by many blacks. That he isn't a bitter and mean person speaks volumes about his character - at least to me.

And remember, why vote for the lesser of two evils - vote Cthulhu in 2008!

Necros wrote:I don't think Obama will win, just like the last election, everyone south of the mason-dixon line will vote republican just because their daddy did.

People need to be voting for the VP they want instead. If Obama wins, some racist nutjob from alabama will gun him down. If McCain wins, he'll just end up keeling over from a stroke soon after just because he's old. So, this time around, vote for the VP

Grignard wrote:[

Alright, reading through that again it wasn't the best way to put things on his part. In fairness he did leave "Some other reason" though . I understand that I get angry sometimes as well, but responding to insults with insults is self perpetuating, and I have to wonder that once one poster responds like that, it becomes easier for other posters to fall in line and do the same thing. I just really don't like being a follower, and I wanted to point that out.

Polonius wrote:

Grignard wrote:[

Alright, reading through that again it wasn't the best way to put things on his part. In fairness he did leave "Some other reason" though . I understand that I get angry sometimes as well, but responding to insults with insults is self perpetuating, and I have to wonder that once one poster responds like that, it becomes easier for other posters to fall in line and do the same thing. I just really don't like being a follower, and I wanted to point that out.

No worries. I'm pretty sure I was civil, and I certainly don't condone escalating flaming. I would point out, I suppose, that without a more... "emotional" response, you wouldn't have noticed the wording of the question, meaning that sometimes a little heat (and I mean a little) can reveal something interesting. I know that I try to read reasoned posts, and I certainly try to write them, but for a lot of people it's easy to skip over a rather dry post (like mine) and without somebody screaming "that's shenanigans you dirty rat!" some pretty bad stuff can slide under the radar. Again, there are ways to be emotional and visceral without being insulting, and I think that should be the appropriate response.

@ Necros: Actually, until about 1980 nearly eveybody in the south voted Democrat, at least in local and state elections and frequently in national elections as well. They all voted democrat, believe it or not, because after the Civil War the Republicans (who were abolitionists) had a more punative (at least in the South's mind) approach to Reconstruction. Racism and all that aside, it was honestly in the South's best interest to become a solid Democratic block to oppose the northern industrial interests. Nixon pioneered a "Southern Strategy" in 1968 that tried to cross over Conservative Democrats (they existed in droves!) that supported the war and opposed the counterculture. Reagan, with broad appeal nationally, reaped those rewards as well. As an aside, the Civil Rights act of 1965 passed with far more support from Republicans than Democrats. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964#By_party_and_region

The re-alignment of the south is probably one of the greatest political feats in history. By allying major business interests with social conservatives (and later the evangelical vote), the Republican party (that good or bad works hard for the upper 1%) has become the "populist" party.