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I work in Home Health. It basically means I go to old people's houses and take care of them for a living.

I have a client, we'll call him Garlock. Garlock is an invalid stroke victim. He has a daughter, let's call her Merkal. Now Merkal has been giving me a lot of trouble lately. She tends to the house and takes care of Garlock on my off days, being his daughter and all. They lead a very simple life in the middle of nowhere. Wood burning stove, no central heat/air, tons of chickens and crap like that running around. Now Merkal has been making my job needlessly difficult. I've been working there for quite a long time now. She has just been changing the ways she wants things done for some reason in contradiction to her budget. And Merkal's budget is all she cares about. Yet she has 5 cars, is paying for 2 more cars she doesn't own but her family does (when they have the ability to pay for them, she has satellite television, a second home (given it's a trailer on a plot of land adjacent to her), a coy pond (she built it over the summer), tons of animals she has to feed, and buys work out machines from the television constantly.

Now why is all this suspect and having me check my morals? Merkal is on disability, and working illegally, and mistreating Garlock financially. She collects Garlock's socially security every month to pay off her massive debts, even said to me once "Typeline, I just hope I can keep him alive for three more years so I can get out of debt". She has a job in his sister's name (her sister 'Grigtar' lives behind her home in a home similar to hers) that requires little to no human interaction and takes place very early in the morning. I don't want to give out specifics, nothing sinister. But the thing is, she makes more money than I do on disability alone. Then she racks up debt on credit cards with low limits. She has been doing this since Garlock had his stroke '9 snows ago'.

I think I'm going to be leaving the Garlock and Merkal home stead soon due to Merkal's sudden distaste of me. This isn't really new either, she runs off a care giver about every year or so. But what I'm asking is what should I do? Simply cut my loses and leave Garlock in the hands of a woman, although with good intentions at times, is just farming him and treating him poorly because of her lack of general intelligence and medical know how? Or do I report her to some kind of anonymous disability fraud investigation department and have Garlock become a ward of the state so he will be put in an assisted living facility until his last days (which could be sooner rather than later) where his treatment will range from excellent considering his treatment now to poor which will basically be what he is getting now from his daughter Merkal.

If anyone wants to know more or anything just ask. But I need a little help deciding what to do.

Are there procedures at your company or anything, or are you an independent?

I'd hate to be in your position. You obviously care for your work otherwise you'd
just bail and find a better client elsewhere. The only thing I can offer is sympathy, which
isn't much but it's the best I can do.

(My gift is my song, and this one's for you...)

I know when my aunt and uncle accused my parents of poisoning my grandfather they called some senior security agency from the state I live in. I figure that she is basically stealing her father's money, and she probably does not keep any sort of strict bookkeeping of her spending, this in isteslf could constitute as abuse, but you'd have to check with your local state agency I think.

I know when my aunt accused my parents, my parents immediately reported it to states services or whatever and the next day people came out to question and investigate. People can appear nice and everything on the outside, because they wear different masks of personas, but if their actions are harming the ability or well being of others then as a good person you shoudl do something responsible to hold them to account. If you have documentation of her doing what she is doing then it would probably help the case against her.

As I see it, part of the problem is that you have to be careful not to violate your patient's confidentiality, and to make sure you're not triangulated in any way.

If you have charting privileges for his care (or similar), or if there's a case worker or social worker assigned to your patient's care with whom you could discuss the case in confidence, I would do that. Or, if you know who was assigned to the guy previously and have a good relationship, find out what their take is on the situation.

It may be less nefarious that what you see (though the results are the same): this family may have a particular dynamic viz. income and finances, and the daughter may simply be living out that dynamic (which, to the mind of the family, isn't 'ripping dad off'), so turning to supervisors or coworkers who've worked with this family/patient before can be helpful in terms of understanding the dynamic.

It sounds to a certain degree, despite your protests otherwise, that you've made up your mind. I think the real question is accepting that path and making sense of it and the consequences that go with it.

dont get attached : )

malfred wrote:Are there procedures at your company or anything, or are you an independent?

I'd hate to be in your position. You obviously care for your work otherwise you'd
just bail and find a better client elsewhere. The only thing I can offer is sympathy, which
isn't much but it's the best I can do.

(My gift is my song, and this one's for you...)

My company didn't really ever brief me on this, and I'd feel ashamed to ask about it to be honest.

Thank you for your sympathy malfred, and it is a lot.

VermGho5t wrote:I know when my aunt and uncle accused my parents of poisoning my grandfather they called some senior security agency from the state I live in. I figure that she is basically stealing her father's money, and she probably does not keep any sort of strict bookkeeping of her spending, this in isteslf could constitute as abuse, but you'd have to check with your local state agency I think.

I know when my aunt accused my parents, my parents immediately reported it to states services or whatever and the next day people came out to question and investigate. People can appear nice and everything on the outside, because they wear different masks of personas, but if their actions are harming the ability or well being of others then as a good person you shoudl do something responsible to hold them to account. If you have documentation of her doing what she is doing then it would probably help the case against her.

I probably should have mentioned this before but Merkal is taking Garlock's social security and literally squandering it. Garlock is short on his medication at the end of every other month. Her actions have put him in serious danger, there is abuse going on in that regard. The withholding of his money that purchases his medication is also something that has made him ill.

syr8766 wrote:As I see it, part of the problem is that you have to be careful not to violate your patient's confidentiality, and to make sure you're not triangulated in any way.

If you have charting privileges for his care (or similar), or if there's a case worker or social worker assigned to your patient's care with whom you could discuss the case in confidence, I would do that. Or, if you know who was assigned to the guy previously and have a good relationship, find out what their take is on the situation.

It may be less nefarious that what you see (though the results are the same): this family may have a particular dynamic viz. income and finances, and the daughter may simply be living out that dynamic (which, to the mind of the family, isn't 'ripping dad off'), so turning to supervisors or coworkers who've worked with this family/patient before can be helpful in terms of understanding the dynamic.

It sounds to a certain degree, despite your protests otherwise, that you've made up your mind. I think the real question is accepting that path and making sense of it and the consequences that go with it.

It's not just that she takes his money and throws it out the door on useless crap, it's that she has two other forms of illegal income. Her job in his sister's name and she is renting out that trailer and then collects disability. Garlock does have a case worker. But I think the only thing he really has authority over is Garlock and I'm not sure if he is much concerned with how Merkal is getting all this money.

There aren't any care workers or supervisors that like Merkal. After a while she turns everyone into an enemy and it's beginning to happen with me. It just pains me to see Garlock neglected and mistreated.

frgsinwntr wrote:dont get attached : )

I know, it's so hard though.

There is a saying I picked up in school:

Your attachment makes you an asset, but it's your biggest liability.

Typeline wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:dont get attached : )

I know, it's so hard though.

There is a saying I picked up in school:

Your attachment makes you an asset, but it's your biggest liability.

Sometimes that's how I think my job works. Detachment helps you survive it, but
attachment will make you improve.

Morally speaking, this is a human being you are talking about here. By the sound of it, you went to some kind of school for your career choice. Was there, perchance, an ethics class involved in the course of schooling? I'm not asking to try to be an ass or anything, merely looking for more data so I can make an informed opinion. I would review said ethics class materials, if it exists.

Barring that, I fall back upon what little I know of formal ethics training. You are a care giver. Not trying to be cruel, but anything beyond the health and well-being of this man is not your business. This includes his relatives, finances, etc. Unless those things impact his health. I would VENTURE (ie, this is laced with obvious assumptions, so TIFWIW) to say that there are limits to what degree his health and well-being are your charge and responsibility. Operate within those limits. Do NOT stick your nose places you are not officially charged with sticking it. That has a potential, from my experience, to have Bad Effects on everyone involved.

I'm not going to say what exactly you should do, but follow your moral compass as YOU apply to the situation. I am concerned that, if you "step out of line", this human leech you have described (not the old man!) may have ways of legally smacking the crap out of you. If she is willing to effectively "Hotel Hell" her own father, I suspect strongly that she would goat feth you in ways you prob. wouldn't even see coming. And she would sleep like a baby. And by that I don't mean crying all night and crapping hereslf.

You have a job to do, and a moral obligation to look afte
are these people in a proscribed manner. You sound good at your job, and you losing you job/ certs would be a loss to the people whom you are helping and would be helping in the future. But that only goes so far when lives, abuse, and crimes are in the equation.

Good luck, this one won't be easy.

I think like malfred and grizgrin have said, you’ve got to look at the ethical guidance provided any classes you’ve taken, and by your employer. You’ve been placed in a position of responsibility, and you are to some extent honour bound to act according to the terms of that relationship.

But you’ve also got to think long and hard about what the ideal solution to the problem would be, and think about what actions you might take to bring about that result.

Then you’ve got to weigh up both sets of considerations, make your choice and figure no matter what you do you’ll probably end up feeling pretty lousy. It’s a tough choice you’ve got, and all we can do is wish you the best.

Let's look at Immanuel Kant's view on moral goodness. Now he's got an imperative that we must follow, to always tell the truth even if the consequences are bad (for example, telling your wife that her shoes really are hideous), but that's not my point. There's one part of this imperative that makes every morally bad thing you do a universal law, as in if you do leave Garlock in the hands of money-siphoning Merkal, then everyone can and usually will be leaving their Garlocks in the hands of money-siphoning Merkals. Think about it, Garlock and his equivalents everywhere having their social securities taken away from them to pay for a buttload of cars and other such material possessions. It does nothing to help our world, it throws salt on the wound we so desperately need to heal.

Off-topic: I'm glad I took Philosophy now.

It's a complicated and difficult issue, and please take this only as a point of view, but if Garlock is being harmed by the removal of his medication then you have to act. This woman is stealing his life, and that can't be allowed to continue. If there is a way she can be reported without you being implicated, then that's the course of action I would recommend. Of course, you are in a real moral bind, but I think you should take whichever course of action will sit easiest with your ethics, regardless of what that is. Ask yourself what you will feel the best about after the event, you have to live with your decision. I hope you can it.

You poor soul, if it's one thing I hate it's the mis-treatment of the elderly. I'd alert eveybody i could but that would cost you your job I'm guessing. I won't burden you with moral talk but I'll say a lil prayer. :(

You are employed to help the ill gentleman. Through her actions she is imperiling him-- if he is running out of medication due to her , let's be honest here, stealing his money. To my eyes-- and let me stress I appreciate how easy it is for me to make this call whilst sitting pretty here compared to you actually having to live through it --you'd be negligent if you didn't speak up to a superior at least. Don't mention anyhting at all to do with the alleged benefit cons etc-- that's outside your remit.

But I'd say something to someone above you, get it down on paper/recorded that you did as well. Covers your own back there at least, I'd hate for you to wind gettting your ass sued by this "lady" when ( not if) something goes wrong eventually.

You can report them to SS.

A third party can be set up as legal guardian. But thats a process you would not be involved in.

Otherwise you really can't do anything.

Wrong thread. I am the clever.

Unless she has power of attorney, what she's doing is illegal. Even if she does, she's guilty of neglect, which will become criminal neglect when something bad happens. Notice I say "when", not "if".

Report her. Even if he goes to a home, he'll be better off than being kept around purely as a cash cow for a parasite of a daughter.

Talk to her about it first. See if she knows what she is doing is wrong. Warn her about the potential pitfalls of her behaviour, and monitor. If she continues doing it, then I would say you have a moral duty to your charge to inform the authorities about it.

But just going for the jugular straight away doesn't sit right with me. Everyone deserves a chance to mend their ways before things get 'official'....

Ok an update for everyone asking questions.

Yes to get my certifications I had to do several ethics portions in some courses and an entire ethics course later on. There aren't really any kind of situations like these in the classes I've taken. It's all usually "don't be racist" and "respect other religious beliefs".

As for talking to Merkal about this, I can't do that. She would literally have an attempt at my life. If I threatened the easy way of existing she has she would definitely try to shut me up before I left that house.

It's not that she is defrauding the government so much as it is she is defrauding the government on 4 different accounts and not upholding her duties. I'm all for getting an extra buck from people dumb enough to give it to you in most cases. But it just doesn't sit right with me. She makes twice as much as I do with all this government money but she throws it away then throws Garlock out too.

As a side note, just to elaborate on some other abuses. She only uses a single pair of gloves on him a day, A DAY! This means when she changes his diaper there are particles of fecal matter and urea all over the house when she is done dressing him with those same gloves. Merkal says "I wipe them off Typeline!" but she just doesn't understand the microscopic scope of infection. I fear for my own safety when I walk into that place, let alone Garlock's safety.

You have a responsibility as a health care professional to report any and all wrong doing to the proper authorities.

Laws on elder abuse have emerged over the recent decades, with nearly all states requiring mandatory reporting of suspected elder abuse cases.

It sounds as if her lack of care is having a negative impact on your work with this man. You should consult an attorney who works in the area on these type cases.

Well here are your choices:

utilitarianism:

turn her in, It will increase over-all happiness. Consider that she is using a large portion of the populations taxes, also having Mr. G sent to a assisted living facility will increase the chances of him living a bit longer (lets face it Ms. M will only care for him as long as its economical, as soon as his medical expenses exceed the checks coming in, hes just a life insurance policy away from an accident (think what would happen if the wood stove went out this winter).

Ethical Egoism:

Black mail her, You can become an other bill in her monthly scamming.


Kantian Moral Philosophy:

Turn her In. "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law.". Lying is wrong because you can not imagine a world in which everyone lies all the time.

Cultural relativism:

Find out if all of her neighbors are defrauding the government, If they are leave her alone. If not turn her in.

Aristotle's Golden Mean:

Compromise, explain to Ms. M that you know what she is up to and suggest that she reduces her "crimes" to half of what she is doing now. I.E. let her go on defrauding the government in return she will stop stealing from Mr. G

Judeo-Christian Ethics:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" This is some what personal, but for me this would mean turning in Ms. M.

Nihilism:

Do nothing.

Aristotelian ethics:

You turn her in, because its the right thing to do. Then you gloat about how brave you where to do it.


Hope that Helps!

Evil Eli wrote:You have a responsibility as a health care professional to report any and all wrong doing to the proper authorities.

Laws on elder abuse have emerged over the recent decades, with nearly all states requiring mandatory reporting of suspected elder abuse cases.

As you are a healthcare professional, and having grown up with my mom as a resource nurse, I am wondering why there is so little action on your part. I am not trying to make you get defensive typeline, but after the episode with my uncle and aunt involving my parents, the issue of elder abuse got real serious. We had three care-takers who sided with my parents and were the original informants of my grandfather's abuse. They grew to be a part of our family and treated my grandpa as one of their own. I am just speculating why for whatever reason you would not have that sort of disposition towards Garlock as he is essentially your charge.

What EE is the straight up truth, and even though it may cause you much grief and strife, if this woman doesn't have the sense to be sanitary with gloves, let alone anoything else that involves her father's health she doesn't deserve one penny of what income Garlock has coming in to support him. No excuses, she doesnt get or deserve one fething cent of it.

IMO, it would be best just to stick with the elder abuse issues rather than illegal employment. This may or may not include the embezzelment of Garlocks funds as well. But, the longer you wait to do something about this, the worse it will be for you I have no doubt! As she would , most likely have an attorney who could make things ugly for ya.

Anyways, I hope you do your best and what you think is right for Garlock's well being.

The last paragraph of your most recent post sold it for me. Do Garlock and everyone else a favour by putting an end to it. If you are capable of feeling for this man's situation, then you cannot do nothing.

You also seem to suggest that this woman would try to seriously injure you if you confronted her. Even in Australia (where we do not have a bill of human rights in any form whatsoever), you can make a report on the grounds that you feel you are in danger. The authorities should act accordingly on receipt of this information.
I personally do not believe that you are at any liability - 'confidentiality' is irrelevant - Merkel is not even the patient in question. Moreso, you may be at liability for NOT reporting this. Since I don't know exactly how things work in Socialism-is-bad-land, don't take my word for it.

You don't have to convince us of her wrongdoing any further.
It may be safer ask Yakface to remove this forum if you choose to take action, especially if you are still concerned about confidentiality.

I, of course, live in a fantasy world where people don't sue each other. Your flag suggests otherwise.

It's also understandable for you to be hesitant if your income is supplemented by your aged care work, but in that case you shouldn't have mentioned anything to us. If that's a factor, you have no right to complain.

Some of the early responses in this thread kill me.

There is no gray area here.

He is legally obligated to report this. (Unless his state doesn't have said laws)

If he doesn't he is guilty of negligence and can have his license suspended.

The 500,000 to 1,000,000 reports of elder abuse recorded by authorities every year (the vast majority of which are proven to be true) are only the tip of the iceberg; according to data from different states, for every case of elder abuse reported, another 12 or 13 are not. Accordingly there’s a great need for people to report suspected abuse.

In every state, physical, sexual, and financial abuses targeting elders that violate laws against assault, rape, theft, and other offenses are punishable as crimes. With some variation among states, certain types of emotional elder abuse and elder neglect are subject to criminal prosecution, depending on the perpetrators' conduct and intent and the consequences for the victim.

States differ on who is required to report suspected elder abuse (there’s no federal standard), though the categories of mandatory reporters are expanding. Typically, medical personnel, nursing home workers, peace officers, emergency personnel, public officials, social workers, counselors, and clergy are listed as mandatory reporters, and that responsibility is spreading to financial institutions and other entities that work with seniors.

While it’s important for elders to seek refuge from abuse, either by calling a local agency or telling a doctor or trusted friend, many seniors don't report the abuse they face even if they’re able. Many fear retaliation from the abuser, while others believe that if they turn in their abusers, no one else will take care of them. When the caregivers are their children, they may be ashamed that their children are behaving abusively or blame themselves: “If I’d been a better parent when they were younger, this wouldn’t be happening.” Or they just may not want children they love to get into trouble with the law.

The first agency to respond to a report of elderly abuse, in most states, is Adult Protective Services (APS). Its role is to investigate abuse cases, intervene, and offer services and advice. Again, the power and scope of APS varies from state to state. However, every state has at least one toll-free elder abuse hotline or helpline for reporting elder abuse in the home, in the community, or in nursing homes and other longterm care facilities. In addition, information and referral are also available from the national Eldercare Locator: 1-800-677-1116

I have enbolded the relevant pats for typeline.

The main thing for me is whether Garlock is happy in all this. But that's impossible to see as his dementia has probably advanced to Alzheimer's, I've been seeing the middle stages that a lot of my other clients have. My state actually is a little shaky on what the family can be implicated on.

I think I've made a decision. I'm going to talk to Garlock's case worker in professional confidence that he won't inform Merkal. I will also alert my supervisor. But I'm not sure what kinds of abuse will actually be able to be proven. As soon as they come out and do an audit Merkal will be caught. Then depending on that situation he either goes to the brother of Merkal or becomes a ward of the state which is more likely as Merkal's brother really doesn't like to see his father much.

I believe that there is a department of Elder Abuse you can report it to. I'm not keen on legal specifics, but we had a similar case in-family like this a few years ago. I can say though that a person intentionally leeching an elder for their disability/property/legal rights etc. is reprehensible.