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All of the recent talk on the forums have rekindled my interest in Battletech and I'm looking to put together a small company of 'mechs, mainly for show. After browsing Camo Specs Online, I've settled on the Ronin. For those not familiar with the Ronin, they're the DCMS 10th Ghost who have went AWOL.

Since I'm not good at matching up 'mechs to make an effective lance, let alone a company I'd thought I'd post this request. I'm looking to put together maybe a company of 'mechs, with a reinforced Command Lance, an Assault Lance and maybe a Fire Support or Pursuit Lance. Since I don't really know anyone who currently plays, I'm leaning more towards a 'fluffy' composition versus one that rejects fluff for sheer effectiveness. That means I'd prefer 'mechs appropriate to the DCMS or what could be found in a hidden Star League cache. A little bit of Clan tech is acceptable, but it must fit in fluff-wise. That means mainly second-line units only (such as the Supernova, Ha Otoko, Corvis, Mad Cat Mk II, etc.) Any comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

So do you mean you'd like to make up the unit from Kurita Mech types?

If so: Jenner, Panther, Dragon and Hatamoto are good choices, of the top of my head.

There's more of course and I could look through my fluff sources if you want. Rather busy though so it might be a week before I've got a chance to do so. :S

To start, I would consider any of the unseen to be ubiquitous throughout the Inner Sphere, meaning that I don't think it would be out of place to have a Battlemaster or Marauder or Wolverine or Phoenix Hawk or Wasp in your company (in fact, Wasps, Stingers, and Locusts are supposed to be quite abundant throughout the Inner Sphere). So if you have access to unseen miniatures, I think they are fine.

Other 'mechs I would consider in the same boat would be:
Mongoose
Spider
Firestarter
Cicada
Centurion
Trebuchet
Quickdraw
Grasshopper
Orion
Awesome
Charger
Stalker
Cyclops
Atlas

'Mechs that I think are fairly ubiquitous, but are more easily found within the Draconis Combine are:
Whitworth
Hunchback
Victor

And, of course, the 'mechs that are common to House Kurita:
Jenner
Panther
Dragon/Grand Dragon
Hatamoto-Chi

Yes, I know what types of 'mechs (those on page 142 of the Draconis Combine Field Manual to start). What I'm looking for is good combinations of those 'mechs in the appropriate lances. For example, you wouldn't want a slow UrbanMech in a pursuit lance or a lightly-armed Spider in a fire lance.

Since you are only making a company or so, each lance needs a good focus. Your light lance should be something like the following:

Raptor, Jenner, Hitman, and a final member that combines speed and long range firepower. A Talon is a good choice, but not very Combine. This might be a spot for a salvaged Smoke Jaguar Puma.
A Grand Dragon could even work here.

Good Fire Support for the Combine means a nice C3 network. A Shugenja for the Master, along with slaved Avatars and other heavy hitters. There are TONS of C3 slave designs that can be used here, you can easily find ones you want.

Also, head over to www.classicbattletech.com and join the forums there. You can get TONS of help from hundreds of Combine players.

Sorry for letting this sit, but here's what I've got so far:

Command Lance
1) AV1-OC Avatar
2) KIM-2C Komodo
3) HTM-27T Hatamoto-chi
4)
5) OW-1 Owens

Assault Lance
1) Supernova
2) AKU-1X Akuma
3) CRK-5003-2 Katana
4) BLR-4S BattleMaster

Pursuit Lance
1) DMO-1K Daimyo
2) PNT-10K Panther
3) HOP-4A Hoplite
4)

Any help filling in the blanks would be greatly appreciated.

Mattlov wrote:Also, head over to http://www.classicbattletech.com and join the forums there. You can get TONS of help from hundreds of Combine players.

I've been a member there since 2004, but haven't posted there in quite some time (since before their last forum upgrade). I wanted to give the guys here first crack.

Ok, Ghaz, let's look at that list of yours:

Avatar - Good 'Mech. Good spread of decent configs.

Komodo - Lovley little 'Mech. Filled to the gills with one of the most efficient weapons in the game. There are other version, like the KIM-2A Komodo, which are fun, but the bog-standard KIM-2 is a great machine. I see you've got the KIM-2C, which makes sense for a C3 Lance.

Hatamoto Chi - Uhh... it's a signature Draonis 'Mech and I like them, but there's not really a 'good' version of it other than the HTM-28T. Worth having though.

Owens - God no! Bad, bad 'Mech. If you must have a C3 'Mech, find one of the modified standard ones... but avoid the Owens.

Supernova - Overheats like a motherfracker, but it's very powerful.

Akuma - Power keg waiting to blow. I like it because it has cool weapons, but no CASE makes it a walking time bomb.

Katana - Nothing terrible. Good assault 'Mech.

Battlemaster - Really hard to go past a Battlemaster. The BLR-4S is a wonderful thing.

Daimyo - Let me warn you about the Daimyo. If you do not possess a PhD in theoretical quantum engineering, or are unable to break the laws of physics, avoid this 'Mech. The model is horrendous, and is easily one of the top 5 hardest models to put together in IWM's line. The only 'Mech worse than it that I've found is the Blood Asp.

Panther - Another great little Kuritan 'Mech.

Hoplite - Jesus! If you thought the Owens was bad... Avoid!!!

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:Owens - God no! Bad, bad 'Mech. If you must have a C3 'Mech, find one of the modified standard ones... but avoid the Owens.

The main reason I took the Owens over a Hitman was basically because I didn't like the looks of the Hitman miniature. So, any recommendations on an appropriate electronics warfare 'mech for the Draconis Combine other than the Owens or the Hitman?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Daimyo - Let me warn you about the Daimyo. If you do not possess a PhD in theoretical quantum engineering, or are unable to break the laws of physics, avoid this 'Mech. The model is horrendous, and is easily one of the top 5 hardest models to put together in IWM's line. The only 'Mech worse than it that I've found is the Blood Asp.

And here I was avoiding the T-Bolt due to what looks like an insane number of bits to put together. Exactly how many pieces does the Daimyo come in?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Hoplite - Jesus! If you thought the Owens was bad... Avoid!!!

Unfortunately I really like the sculpt for the Hoplite and it solidifies my fluff that the cache that the Ronin found was actually a lost Dragoon's cache.

Anyway, I posted a modified list on the CBT forums here but didn't get much feedback on the actual list (but I did get some info on the Ronin, so it wasn't a total waste of time). Anyway, here's the revised list:

++COMMAND LANCE++
AV1-OC Avatar
OW-1 Owens
GAL-1GLS Gallowglas (the two medium pulse lasers and small pulse laser have been removed for a C3 slave, two medium lasers and an extra 1/2 ton armor).
DRG-C Grand Dragon

++HEAVY LANCE++
CRK 5003-2 Katana
GHR-5J Grasshopper
OTL-6D Ostsol
HOP-4D Hoplite

++MEDIUM LANCE++
DMO-1K Daimyo
KIM-2 Komodo
GRF-6S Griffin
V4-LNT-7K Valiant

++AEROSPACE SUPPORT++
MIK-O Tatsu
MIK-O Tatsu

Any thoughts? I'm I heading in the right direction?

Gallowglas is a good 'Mech.

The main reason I took the Owens over a Hitman was basically because I didn't like the looks of the Hitman miniature.

There are better 'Mechs than both of those. One thing to keep in mind is that although a 'Mech might belong to or be manufactured by a certain faction (Panthers are Kuritan 'Mechs, Awesomes are typically Mark 'Mechs and so on), everyone has pretty much everything, especially the older stuff. There are 'Mechs that have been kicking around for several centuries, and have changed hands many times over in that period.

So yeah, the Hitman and Owens are Kuritan 'Mechs, but there are 'Mechs that fill the same role from both Kuritan and other Realm's lists and they're better at it.

The best thing you can do to get a good grasp on the 'Mechs is head to the FanArticle section of the CBT.com forums. There they have posters doing a weekly overview of each type of 'Mech, and they've done hundreds of them now (they started doing them back in 2005 and have been preiodically updating them as time goes on). They're a very good way to learn the strengths and weaknesses of each 'Mech type (and their variants) without having to troll through TRO's and record sheets yourself.

And here I was avoiding the T-Bolt due to what looks like an insane number of bits to put together. Exactly how many pieces does the Daimyo come in?

When I first saw the Thunderbolt, I thought the same thing. I was wrong though. The TBolt was really easy to put together. You've just got be patient and use the right amount of green stuff. Honestly the hardest part about the TBolt was cutting away the ridges of its scenic base to make it fit inside a hex base. Everything else is solved by doing it in the right order.

And the Daimyo's problem isn't the amount of parts it comes in (the resculpt Omni's all come in multiple parts and they're easy to put together). The Daimyo suffers the same problems that 'Mechs like the Blood Asp, and newer Warhammers have - their feet are moulded to the base, their legs are separate, as are their hips.

So, with the Daimyo, you get 6 pieces:

Left Arm.

Right Arm.

Body.

Left Leg.

Right Leg.

Feet/moulded scenic base.

Trying to get the little pins from the legs to fit into the holes in the feet, while trying to get the large, awkward and heavy body to stay upright while you do it is an excercise in maddening futility. My FW Stormblade, a model I despise because of the fact that it was moulded horribly and simply does not fit together was easier to put together than the Daimyo. When I say I almost threw my Stormblade across the room it was so frustrating, I don't exagerate - the Daimyo I did throw across the room after my third attempt at getting it to stay together.

The only miniature that's harder to get together is the Blood Asp, and for the same reason - feet moulded to a small base, separate legs, and separate hips. It makes every miniature a nightmare together. 'Mechs like the Mad Cat and Vulture, they have separate feet, legs and hips, but their feet are not part of a base, you can put them flat and it usually works - not on the Daimyo though. It is in an 'action pose' rather than standing straight, so putting it together is hell on Earth.

As for your updated list:

Avatar - Already said. Good 'Mech. But there are better C3 Masters. My suggestion would be an AV1-OD Avatar as a Slave unit, and then take a different Master.

Owens - I'd avoid it. If you must have a fast Kuritan scout 'Mech for a C3 Lance, then look at things like the SDR-C Spider or the JR7-C Jenner. Both staple Kuritan 'Mechs, and both miles better than the Owens. Hell, if you want an Omni, then go for the Raptor! The RTX1-OD is has a C³ Slave Unit. The FS9-OB Firestarter Omni can also perform the role and it's a little heavier and still has the TAG the Owens has.

Gallowglas - Good 'Mech, but if you really are going for a C3 Lance it seems odd that you'd specifically take a non-C3 'Mech and modify it. You need a C³ Master, and something better than the Avatar. The GUN-2ERD Gunslinger fits the bill quite well, but the ultimate Kuritan C³ Master is the Naginata. It was built to be a C³ Command 'Mech.

Dragon - I hate Dragons. Undergunned, underarmoured and they never got any better with age. If you want something that fills that role but doesn't completely suck, and is still Kuritan, then the QKD-C Quickdraw is the better choice. 5/8/5 movement curve, a suite of reliable weapons (4 Meds + an SRM4) has the C3 slave and never heats up (it's actually horribly oversinked). Failing that you can take a personal fav of mine, CPLT-K5 Catapult. C³ Slaves and MRM30's work wonders when paired. And, again, it's another design the Kuritans use a lot of (even if it is a Capellan design).

Katana - Fine.

Grasshopper - The Grasshopper is one of the finest 'Mechs ever made for 3025 play. Good speed, good armour, great guns - a near-perfect Lvl1 Flashbulb(excepting the presence of the LRM5). The GHR-5J is not though. It was the 3050 'upgrade' that just reduced the weapons load, increased the ammo load, and diluted what the 'Mech was good for. Even the fluff for the Grasshopper states that Grasshopper pilots would often refuse the offer of an upgrade kit.

If you're taking a Grasshopper you're taking the GHR-5H. Easily one of the most efficient designs in the game. If you must take a new Tech one, then the 6K or 7K are better choices. Still all Kuritan designs, but they'd go in your C3 Lance. Just about the J5. Not a good 'Mech.

Ostol - I don't like the Ost series (Ostol, Oscout, Ostroc). Did you know there's a version of the Oscout that doesn't even have guns!!! You can do worse, that's for sure, but there are far better 'Mechs out there. Ever looked at the Black Hawk-KU? That's a nice machine.

Hoplite - Uhh... if you want your guys to come across an old Wolf's Dragoons supply Cache, choose a Dragoon 'Mech that's good. this is a Heavy Lance too, so what's a Hoplite doing in it? Get yourself an IMP-2E Imp! It's like an UberUrbie, and it easily outclasses most of the original Assault 'mechs like the Atlas.

Daimyo - I still say avoid it based on its miniature alone.

Komodo - Fantastic thing.

Griffin - Nothing wrong with the Griffin. 6S is a Lyran design, just so you know. 5K is a Kuritan design (and it is 5/8/8 thanks to improved JJ's!!!).

Valiant - Very, very new tech. When are you planning on playing, 'cause this is a mid-Jihad 'Mech from the 3070's. There's nothing especially wrong with it, it's just a very new 'Mech.

One thing I could point out is that the Force Faction Tables are not always the best thing to go off. Not only are they outdated and soon to be replaced, they offer a very narrow view on who uses what. As I said before, you can justify almost anything in BTech, so don't feel constrained to just take Kuritan-only designs.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:

The main reason I took the Owens over a Hitman was basically because I didn't like the looks of the Hitman miniature.

There are better 'Mechs than both of those. One thing to keep in mind is that although a 'Mech might belong to or be manufactured by a certain faction (Panthers are Kuritan 'Mechs, Awesomes are typically Mark 'Mechs and so on), everyone has pretty much everything, especially the older stuff. There are 'Mechs that have been kicking around for several centuries, and have changed hands many times over in that period.

So yeah, the Hitman and Owens are Kuritan 'Mechs, but there are 'Mechs that fill the same role from both Kuritan and other Realm's lists and they're better at it.

I know what I'm looking for (C³ slave + TAG + Beagle + speed) I just need to find a suitable package.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

And here I was avoiding the T-Bolt due to what looks like an insane number of bits to put together. Exactly how many pieces does the Daimyo come in?

When I first saw the Thunderbolt, I thought the same thing. I was wrong though. The TBolt was really easy to put together. You've just got be patient and use the right amount of green stuff. Honestly the hardest part about the TBolt was cutting away the ridges of its scenic base to make it fit inside a hex base. Everything else is solved by doing it in the right order.

And the Daimyo's problem isn't the amount of parts it comes in (the resculpt Omni's all come in multiple parts and they're easy to put together). The Daimyo suffers the same problems that 'Mechs like the Blood Asp, and newer Warhammers have - their feet are moulded to the base, their legs are separate, as are their hips.

So, with the Daimyo, you get 6 pieces:

Left Arm.

Right Arm.

Body.

Left Leg.

Right Leg.

Feet/moulded scenic base.

Trying to get the little pins from the legs to fit into the holes in the feet, while trying to get the large, awkward and heavy body to stay upright while you do it is an excercise in maddening futility. My FW Stormblade, a model I despise because of the fact that it was moulded horribly and simply does not fit together was easier to put together than the Daimyo. When I say I almost threw my Stormblade across the room it was so frustrating, I don't exagerate - the Daimyo I did throw across the room after my third attempt at getting it to stay together.

I might have to give on a try anyway. If it turns out to be as bad as you're saying, I'm close enough to Iron Wind Metals I can return it with prejudice and in person

H.B.M.C. wrote:Avatar - Already said. Good 'Mech. But there are better C3 Masters. My suggestion would be an AV1-OD Avatar as a Slave unit, and then take a different Master.

Yes, there may be better but I'm not necessarily looking for an optimum loadout but one that's fluffy as well. I like having a heavy instead of an assault as the C³ master.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Owens - I'd avoid it. If you must have a fast Kuritan scout 'Mech for a C3 Lance, then look at things like the SDR-C Spider or the JR7-C Jenner. Both staple Kuritan 'Mechs, and both miles better than the Owens. Hell, if you want an Omni, then go for the Raptor! The RTX1-OD is has a C³ Slave Unit. The FS9-OB Firestarter Omni can also perform the role and it's a little heavier and still has the TAG the Owens has.

As I mentioned above, if you can find a suitable package (C³ slave + TAG + Beagle + speed} I'd have no problem dropping the Owens.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Gallowglas - Good 'Mech, but if you really are going for a C³ Lance it seems odd that you'd specifically take a non- C³ 'Mech and modify it. You need a C³ Master, and something better than the Avatar. The GUN-2ERD Gunslinger fits the bill quite well, but the ultimate Kuritan C³ Master is the Naginata. It was built to be a C³ Command 'Mech.

I really like the Gallowglas and the Command Lance looked like the best fit for it, even if it requires a little bit of modifiaction. I'd like to save the NG-C3B Naginata for a possible later C³ company.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Dragon - I hate Dragons. Undergunned, underarmoured and they never got any better with age. If you want something that fills that role but doesn't completely suck, and is still Kuritan, then the QKD-C Quickdraw is the better choice. 5/8/5 movement curve, a suite of reliable weapons (4 Meds + an SRM4) has the C3 slave and never heats up (it's actually horribly oversinked). Failing that you can take a personal fav of mine, CPLT-K5 Catapult. C³ Slaves and MRM30's work wonders when paired. And, again, it's another design the Kuritans use a lot of (even if it is a Capellan design).

I like the Dragon miniature better than the Quickdraw and a Kuritan force without at least one Dragon, Panther or Jenner just doesn't feel right. I can do the Catapult though.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Grasshopper - The Grasshopper is one of the finest 'Mechs ever made for 3025 play. Good speed, good armour, great guns - a near-perfect Lvl1 Flashbulb (excepting the presence of the LRM5). The GHR-5J is not though. It was the 3050 'upgrade' that just reduced the weapons load, increased the ammo load, and diluted what the 'Mech was good for. Even the fluff for the Grasshopper states that Grasshopper pilots would often refuse the offer of an upgrade kit.

If you're taking a Grasshopper you're taking the GHR-5H. Easily one of the most efficient designs in the game. If you must take a new Tech one, then the 6K or 7K are better choices. Still all Kuritan designs, but they'd go in your C³ Lance. Just about the J5. Not a good 'Mech.

No problem downgrading to -5H. After all, the Ghost Regiments are not known for their cutting edge technology.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Ostol - I don't like the Ost series (Ostol, Oscout, Ostroc). Did you know there's a version of the Oscout that doesn't even have guns!!! You can do worse, that's for sure, but there are far better 'Mechs out there. Ever looked at the Black Hawk-KU? That's a nice machine.

The Ostsol fits into the somewhat 'fluffy' list and is one of the few Project Phoenix 'mechs that I like. And yes, I know about weaponless Ostscout

H.B.M.C. wrote:Hoplite - Uhh... if you want your guys to come across an old Wolf's Dragoons supply Cache, choose a Dragoon 'Mech that's good. this is a Heavy Lance too, so what's a Hoplite doing in it? Get yourself an IMP-2E Imp! It's like an UberUrbie, and it easily outclasses most of the original Assault 'mechs like the Atlas.

Actually at one time I was considering a SHG-2E Shogun just because the current fluff says that only four are left. Really I just like the looks of the miniature and I was going for the Dragoons connection without going for an uber 'mech. Maybe I'll use a variant I was reading about on the CBT forums and replace the autocannon with a Binary Laser Cannon

H.B.M.C. wrote:Griffin - Nothing wrong with the Griffin. 6S is a Lyran design, just so you know. 5K is a Kuritan design (and it is 5/8/8 thanks to improved JJ's!!!).

Yep, but the miniature is a -6S

H.B.M.C. wrote:Valiant - Very, very new tech. When are you planning on playing, 'cause this is a mid-Jihad 'Mech from the 3070's. There's nothing especially wrong with it, it's just a very new 'Mech.

The Tenth Ghost Regiment went AWOL from Quentin after the Blakist left the planet in 3070. They were not declared ronin by the DCMS until 7 October 3072. Besides, I like the Valiant, even if it really is too 'new' to be strictly fluffy.

H.B.M.C. wrote:One thing I could point out is that the Force Faction Tables are not always the best thing to go off. Not only are they outdated and soon to be replaced, they offer a very narrow view on who uses what. As I said before, you can justify almost anything in BTech, so don't feel constrained to just take Kuritan-only designs.

Yep, but they're a good place to start. I started with the Draconis and Mercenary lists and then went back and added the 'mechs that I personally liked to get a list of miniatures to draw from. Perhaps it would be helpful if I post the lists that I'm working from:

PRIMARY LIST
Griffin
Ninja-to
Battlemaster
Ostsol
Crusader
Longbow
Eagle
Shugenja
Daimyo
Ryoken
Flashman
Avatar
Sunder
Venom
Daikyu
Naginata
Starslayer
Gallowglas
Komodo
Owens
Akuma
Crockett (Katana)
Kintaro
Sentinel
Hoplite
Crab
Mauler
Hatamoto chi
Lancelot
Guillotine
Hatchetman
Dragon
Jenner
Hermes II
Grasshopper
Wolf Trap
Black Hawk-KU
Merlin
Catapult
Atlas
Falcon Hawk
Chimera
Jackal
Phoenix Hawk

SECONDARY LIST
Rifleman
Archer
Ostscout
Crimson Langur
Penetrator
Ostroc
Locust IIc
Striker
Razorback
Night Hawk
Loki
Cudgel
Spatha
Onslaught
Thug
Scarabus
Fenris
Gladiator (3075 'mech)
Ha Otoko
Falconer
Supernova
Strider
Cauldron Born
Devastator
Pillager
Excalibur
Caesar
Falcon
Hammer
Whitworth
Dervish
Vulcan
Wolfhound
Shogun
Firefly
Imp
O-Bakemono
Kingfisher
Corvis
Thanatos
Uziel
Mad Cat II
Legacy

Revised list:

++COMMAND LANCE++
AV1-OC Avatar
NJT-2 Ninja-To
CPLT-K5 Catrapult
DRG-7K Grand Dragon

++HEAVY LANCE++
CRK 5003-2 Katana
GHR-5H Grasshopper
OTL-6D Ostsol
GAL-1GLS Gallowglas

++MEDIUM LANCE++
DMO-1K Daimyo
KIM-2 Komodo
GRF-6S Griffin
FFL-4B Firefly

++AEROSPACE SUPPORT++
MIK-O Tatsu
MIK-O Tatsu

H.B.M.C. wrote:Ok, Ghaz, let's look at that list of yours:
<snip>

H.B.M.C. I think you are making the cardinal sin of battletech, designing lists with the same mind to list efficiency we see here over 40K. in Battletech you take the rough with the smooth and go fluff first even if this means taking a 3025 Stinger or Blackjack. The army list mentality that allows some of us to say missile launchers are not worth it in Guard armies, or never take gretchin mobs/grenade launchers/Palatines etc simply doesnt apply. The game is inbalanced and has been from the start autocannon are inferior to their weight in PPC's and heat sinks, and lack of CASE is a natural death sentence just for two examples. If a mech falls foul of both but is a faction favourite its a faction favourite.
These comments are general to the game, not specific to the list.

As far as comments on assembling badly cast miniatures, fair enough, good warning. But when it comes to cherry picking mechs for a list, please don't. Do not concern yourself with the viability of the Owens, Hoplite and Akuma ask yourself only if it is likely that the ronin would have access to those mechs. If a whole list is full of lemons and it isnt a cheap periphery scum unit designed to the like that then fair enough, give some help, but a mix of good and bad designs is considered best for any faction.

after all I hope, my trothkin, that you have left room for some of our mighty Hellbringers in your Jade Falcon builds; quiaff?

However, that's what I wanted from this thread. I wanted to find out what was effective while I kept a firm hand on making sure that it remained fluffy. That's why I've kept designs such as the Grand Dragon and the Avatar as my CO while rethinking such units as the Owens.

Orlanth wrote:H.B.M.C. I think you are making the cardinal sin of battletech, designing lists with the same mind to list efficiency we see here over 40K. in Battletech you take the rough with the smooth and go fluff first even if this means taking a 3025 Stinger or Blackjack.

Wouldn't dream of doing that - there are loads of terrible 'Mechs that I love, or 'Mechs that I love based on aesthetics more than combat worth (hell, I just bought a Baboon, Horned Owl and a Phantom for crying out loud - they're terrible 'Mechs). But there are limits, my dear Jade Falcon comrade, there are limits. The Owens is one of those limits. The Dragon is another. I can tollerate bad 'Mechs like the Quickdraw or even the Strider... but those two just... no. There's nothing good about them. The Owens was a testbed for Omni-Tech and electronics and it has been surpassed by many others, and the Dragon was never a good 'Mech.

And there are good Blackjacks. The BJ-3 and even the BJ-2 are worth taking.

Orlanth wrote:As far as comments on assembling badly cast miniatures, fair enough, good warning. But when it comes to cherry picking mechs for a list, please don't. Do not concern yourself with the viability of the Owens, Hoplite and Akuma ask yourself only if it is likely that the ronin would have access to those mechs. If a whole list is full of lemons and it isnt a cheap periphery scum unit designed to the like that then fair enough, give some help, but a mix of good and bad designs is considered best for any faction.

Hey I like the Akuma, even though it could use half a ton less armour to get a CASE into its massive ammo-side torso. As I said, I choose 'Mechs mostly on aesthetics, and I even own an Owens, I'm just saying that it's not a good 'Mech at all.

Orlanth wrote:after all I hope, my trothkin, that you have left room for some of our mighty Hellbringers in your Jade Falcon builds; quiaff?

Aff, but I'm going to always take a Summoner or Night Gyr first.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:Hey I like the Akuma, even though it could use half a ton less armour to get a CASE into its massive ammo-side torso.

Shame that there's no critical slots left free for the CASE

All the more reason to yell KAMAKAZI and charge into combat before someone sets off your MRM ammo.

BYE

++COMMAND LANCE++
AV1-OC Avatar
NJT-2 Ninja-To
CPLT-K5 Catrapult
DRG-7K Grand Dragon

Interesting group.

The Ninja-To is a funny one. NJT-3 is probably your best bet, simple reason being the NJT-2's MRM10 is kind've a waste and the NJT-3 has no explosive ammo and slightly more armour, but otherwise fine. The CPLT-K5 is loads of fun, and you can jump and fire both MRM30's without heating up, which is a nice bonus. MRM10's in general don't work because they take the penalties of the MRM (the +1 To Hit modifier) but gain you none of the benefits (overwhelming firepower). They're really bad innacurate SRM's at the 10 and even some 20's level (depending on what it's paired with). They've got to be MRM30s or MRM40's to be really worthwhile. For that reason, you are better off with the DRG-C Grand Dragon than you are the DRG-7K.

There's a couple of reasons for this:

1. The DRG-C has an LRM10 and an ER PPC. It can sit back, gaining the benefits of your C3 network, and snipe away.
2. The DRG-7K has an MRM10, which is a bad weapon to start with and is highly mismatched with the ER PPC.
3. You've got an Inner Sphere XL engine. Now I'm not part of the anti-XL mafia, but I can tell you that XL engines are better on snipers than they are on brawlers. Having that MRM10 will tempt you to brawl, and when you add the ER Mediums its packing, it will tempt you to fire everything. Your heat curve is good, but you're asking for a quick death.

I know the 7K has a MASC, and if you've designated this guy as your C3 spotter for the Lance (and a heavy one at that!), then fine. Remember that the Ninja-To is no slower than a regular Dragon, so can fill that role just as well (and if you take the NJT-3, it'll want to get close as its regular PPCs haven't got the range of ERs).

++HEAVY LANCE++
CRK 5003-2 Katana
GHR-5H Grasshopper
OTL-6D Ostsol
GAL-1GLS Gallowglas

The odd thing about the Katana is that it has the same amount of armour as the NJT-3. That's not so hot for an 85-ton Assault 'Mech. The other downside is the right torso, where it's packing 5 tons of ammo and not a single bit of CASE. It's still a fine 'Mech, and has heaps of crit sinks thanks to all those SHS you've got in there. Just a pity he's not part of your C3 Lance, because the 5003-CJ is a beast (3/5/5 movement curve thanks to IJJs, a pair of Light PPCs to go with the LB-10X, great crit-seeking ability with twin SRM6's and enough ammo to mount a ton of Infernos, great heat curve).

I've already said how awesome the Grasshopper is.

Ostsol is... an Ostsol. THe 6D is interesting in that it has what my friends call 'Decoy Arms' (ie. arms that have nothing in them). Just keep in mind that the 6D is a Davion design.

If you're really feeling mean, and you want your fluff to include Wolfs Dragoon's 'Mechs, then the Gallowglas WD is always an option. It's a regular Gallowglas, ER PPC, 2 ER Meds and 2 ER Smalls, but it's all ClanTech and it's a 5/8/4 'Mech. Otherwise nothing wrong with it, even though I'd personally prefer the 2GLS for its Gauss Rifle.

++MEDIUM LANCE++
DMO-1K Daimyo
KIM-2 Komodo
GRF-6S Griffin
FFL-4B Firefly

Daimyo... don't say I didn't warn you. If you find the lack of CASE is getting you down though, the 4K is always an option. Very good heat curve on the 4K as well.

Again, I have nothing bad to say about the Komodo except never get caught with your rear to a TSM'ing Ti Ts'ang. That was a one-hit-kill... poor Komodo...

Griffin, fine.

And a Firefly? You're obviously playing a latter-era game, hence the Ninja-To. For that reason looking at the 4D. It has heat problems, but its range is greater and the LRM5 is less of a bee-sting weapon and more consistent with the Artermis IV. Yes, it's not a SFE, but a Light Engine is still better than an XL in same cases as you can avoid one-hit-kills.

BYE

XL are good too for light mechs if you are using the expanded movement to hit numbers. I`m in love with the project phoenix Locust.

M.

Yes, but XL should always be used to gain more speed, never to gain more weight for weapons (there are exceptions towards the heavier end of the scale though).

XL's are a gift to Light 'Mechs as rather than having to choose between speed, armour and guns and only picking one, they can now choose between speed, armour and guns and pick two!!

BYE

Seems like I'm set to go on this list then. The Ninja-To is indeed meant to be the point man for the C³ lance so the extra armor is a good idea. I was originally on having both the Ninja-To and the Grand Dragon run point, but I guess I can keep the Grand Dragon back and only use him on point if necessary.

On the Gallowglas, unfortunately you most likely would not have seen this 'mech in a Dragoon's cache as far as I can tell. I just can't justify it fluff-wise.

Likewise for the Firefly. It's a simple matter to upgrade a FFL-4A to a FFL-4B, but it's something else to go from a FFL-4A to a FFL-4D.

Now to get to work deciding what to use if I go for the Knights of St. Cameron instead

You said they went through a Dragoon storehouse (or something similar). The LFE is a Dragoon design (stolen by the Lyrans who then had it stolen by the World of Blake), so the idea of them stealing a Light Fusion Engined Firefly (ie. the 4D) isn't that far fetched.

BYE

Yes, it is a Dragoon model but not one that would have been found in one of their old caches that they had out in the Periphery (ie, set up before they came to the Inner Sphere).

Ah, ok, fair enough then.

In that case, I stand by my earlier statement:

Get an Imp.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:In that case, I stand by my earlier statement:

Get an Imp.

I've got an Imp. I've had him for probably close to 17 years. I just choose not to use him in this list And just for that, I'm going to let you critique my Knights of St. Cameron list as soon as I get it done, and it won't have an Imp in it either!

Well it wouldn't make sense for them to have an Imp.

Oh and shut up!

BYE

There is nothing wrong with the Gallowglas in the unit. It is available to almost every faction since it is a mercenary design. I would have to look again, but I think it is on several faction lists.

I would go with the Shugenja over the Avatar. I find it to be a generally superior platform for the C3 Master.

Honestly, I would swap the Katana out for a 28T Hatamoto-Chi. Just as slow, with no XL and better firepower. And a really cool mini.

The light lance is fine, even with a Daimyo. It isn't that hard to assemble. All it takes is approximately 30% more patience than usual, and it's fine. I don't knwo how fragile a light you want, but I would swap the Firefly for a Raptor, generally the E (I think) variant with all the ER Mediums. Great little hunter design.

Raptor F is the one you're thinking of. Easily my fav Inner Sphere Omni. It's the combination of huge amount of heat sinks, a stack of ER Mediums, and a Jump Movement of seven that makes it amazing.

A while back we held a little 'Solairs' tournament, where each player had a stable of about 8 'Mechs plus a "Star Player" with a heavily customised 'Mech. One of my 'Mechs was a Raptor F, and I used it in a four-player 'Rumble in the Jungle'. We used the actual Liao Jungle Map, which has loads of hills and trees everywhere (as you'd expect from a map called '[i]Jungle[i]'). It's ability to jump 7 hexes into Heavy Woods made it one of the more powerful things around. A +6 Modifier To Hit as standard (befor they even calculated range and their movement) meant people had to ignore me for better targets. Damn near killed a Uller before a lucky hit took out a leg of mine.

And I later worked out why, annoyingly, the Raptor F has most of its firepower in a single arm. I could never work out why the Lasers weren't spread around the whole 'Mech - it certainly has the Criticals for it - and that's because as an Omni, it's a Battle Armour transport as well. So its guns are in the arms, and the torso carry the IS Standard or Void or whatever you want to bring with you.

Such a fantastic 'Mech, and only 25 Tons!

BYE

It is great, but I have zero luck with the design. As soon as I can take 15 points of damage or more in one hit, no matter the target number, it gets hit and a side torso XL kill happens. 9 times in a row using the thing. Probably 15 out of 16 total. The only time I had it live is when it went toe-to-toe with a Templar RAC/2 Variant. Took the Templar's fire for 2 rounds before getting a stupid lucky head cap with 3 mediums in the same salvo.

I know, I have trouble leaving for the battle without an Archer (I perfer the S version), Battlemaster, T-Bolt or Wolfhound.

Granted, Wolfhound won't work for you...And I tend to play 3025ish era.

Thunderbolt is easily one of the most reliable 'Mechs in the game, with a whole host of excellent variants.

BYE