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A though inspired by Trench Raiders thread....

You see, not many people liked 3rd Edition all that much. Sure, the rules worked well enough, but it sucked all the fun and flavour out with an almost over the top streamlining.

And every time I go into my local GW, there are the Dark Eldar. The unfortunate adopted child of the uncaring Parent that was 3rd Edition. You see the models, and you see the dark times they were produced in. You see the rules, and you wince because despite a tweak half way through 3rd, they still just don't quite appeal to most.

So GW needs to redo them asap to hopefully close the door on the days of 3rd Edition once and for all, and make them the glorious offspring of 5th Edition, like they should be!

With the exception of some niggling rules and some subpar models, third ed still shines to this day as how a wargame could be balanced and fun.

its when codexs came into being in third ed everything went out of whack. You simply never worried about idiocy like some cheeto mongering nerd touching your models with his unwashed hands because "I got lash, KTHNX!", etc.

The army rules in the main rule book were quite balanced. They lacked individuality like we are used to in other editions, but most of that has disappeared now anyways in 5th.

But anyways onto Dark eldar and them getting done soon.

I just very recently realized on warseer we are getting three imperial armies consecutively, in 5th ed according to Harry (whom I have never seen proven wrong on rumours).
Space marines (always the first codex of each edition) then IG, then SW.

I think three imperial armies in a row is crap and I think DE should get love far before SW are even touched. Not because of "third ed is crap and should be forgotten" but because it is their due time.

Blah, nobody really plays the DE, can we let this die?

That's precisely why we cannot let this die.

Bingo.

Dark Eldar fulfil a cool niche in 40k, a fast moving, extremely fragile army which is capable of fully exploiting an armies achilles heel.

But right now, thanks to being the 2nd book out for 3rd Edition, they are struggling. There are one or two really nasty builds out there, but that just means a decent army which isn't just going to get it's head kicked in is going to much like the other Dark Eldar players force.

A rewrite will tidy all this up, hopefully introducing more background information and perhaps some new units. The whole thing needs regeared, because as the rules change, their strengths change. The only thing that doesn't is their book!

That the models look extremely dated now, and they weren't exactly top notch when the came out.

BigToof wrote:Blah, nobody really plays the DE, can we let this die?

I suspect they would if there were decent rules and decent models. Well more people than LOTR anway...

But yes, they need to be re-done, because having had army sections in both the 4th and 5th Editions, the lack of update is starting to get embarrassing. Ditto Necrons, Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters.

It's more the models than the rules. Rules I can work around. But I don't really want to have to convert most of my army to avoid it looking utterly arse next to my mates!

OF course, new rules still won't go amiss!

What are the good 5E builds for Dark Eldar anyhow?

Here is a tought I've had for a long while.

I would pay for a Codex that had more than one army in it. For example Why do we need a SW codex? Why couldn't we add a section in the SM codex for them and the other Iconic Marine Chapters? Inquisition, why 2 books and 1 article. I'd pay $50-$70 for an all inclusive SM codex.

Eldar and Dark eldar are the Same race. Make an Eldar book, put both of them in it, and be done with the silly Dark Elves.

BigToof wrote:Blah, nobody really plays the DE, can we let this die?

I've encountered a few DE players, including my roomate, who simply refuses to play WH40K now, until his codex gets an update. So you can add me to the list of people who want a new codex sooner rather than later. It simply means I'll be able to play again.

Yeah, count me amongst the DE if they ever get updated.
In regards to the SM Compendium idea, I think what it would take would be 2 pages per non-codex chapter, with a list of how the "Codex" units fit the FOC (Eg, assault marines as troops for BA, special rules and units (Death company and Baal Preadators in BA), and if the # of Gallery pages and Smurf SC's were reduced, Non-Codex chapters could even get a SC each.

I have always liked Dark Eldar but since I can't stand the modles never got into them (probably the reason they dont sell well). I would def start another army if they came sooner than later (probably wouldn't have grabed orks if they had a confirmed release).

As to the combined SM, Eldar/Dark Eldar codex idea. I always thought that BA, BT, SW and DA should have combined dex's with rules changes. I would rather see that then Eldar/Dark Eldar due to both those armies being so different.

Just as point, to close the doors of 3rd Ed shut firmly never to be opened again you must also redo Space Puppies.

Also 3rd Ed wasn't fun in some respects....my Space Marine army has more Lascannons than God needs, or the right my Khorne Bezerkers or Hormagaunts are going to hit a unit, munch it up and consolidate into a fresh unit that same CC Phase and their is nothing you can do about it muhahaha (i used to play Tau in 3rd Ed....)

Back on topic, yes DE need to be redone, i used to have a DE army just as 4th ed was coming out and even with the book being so outdated then they are immensly fun to play with (i used the 600pts of Dark Lance Death, coupled with as many raiders full of Wyches and Ravagers as i could fit into my army list) they were great at pinning the enemy back with focussed fire and sending in lethal CC units quickly into the enemy lines weakspots and carve open the line, I hope the get redone soon considering some of the "practice" models we have seen floating about the internet I have high hopes for Jes producing some awesome models.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:You see, not many people liked 3rd Edition all that much. Sure, the rules worked well enough, but it sucked all the fun and flavour out with an almost over the top streamlining.

Actually the first few years of 3E was great!

The game played smoothly and the rulebook lists were nicely balanced without a bunch of stupid special rules weighing things down.


Then, GW started getting stupid with the Codices and Trial Rules.


But I see 5E as a return to the guiding principles of 3E, and really enjoy the streamlining that we're seeing again.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Dark Eldar fulfil a cool niche in 40k, a fast moving, extremely fragile army which is capable of fully exploiting an armies achilles heel.

Isn't that Eldar?

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:There are one or two really nasty builds out there, but that just means a decent army which isn't just going to get it's head kicked in is going to much like the other Dark Eldar players force.

Which is totally unlike IG, Tau, Eldar, Necrons, or Dark Angels?
____

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:In regards to the SM Compendium idea, I think what it would take would be 2 pages per non-codex chapter, with a list of how the "Codex" units fit the FOC (Eg, assault marines as troops for BA, special rules and units (Death company and Baal Preadators in BA),

That would be "Legions" Marines, which GW has moved away from, like Craftworlds, Traits, and soon-to-be Doctrines.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:You see, not many people liked 3rd Edition all that much. Sure, the rules worked well enough, but it sucked all the fun and flavour out with an almost over the top streamlining.

Wait, what?

Necromunda is one of my favorite GW game, but the rules that were so great for a skirmish game made 2nd Ed. 40k a convoluted mess. It wasn't until the release of 3rd Ed. that I actually started playing real games of 40k.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Actually the first few years of 3E was great!

The game played smoothly and the rulebook lists were nicely balanced without a bunch of stupid special rules weighing things down.

I agree, although I would argue that it wasn't until GW modified a few rules that 3rd Ed. really came into it's own. Remember when Guardsmen used to screen tanks thanks to Ogryns in the middle? If GW hadn't fixed that, I doubt we'd have many fond memories of 3rd Ed.

It's a shame that GW doesn't believe in FAQs and Chapter Approved anymore. Sure, it sucked lugging around all the paper, but there are times when something doesn't work, and waiting five years for a new edition isn't a good way to fix things.

It's sort of depressing to read "shut the doors of third ed" when we are in fifth.
Anyway, yes DE need a new 'dex, all the armies need 5th ed dex's. And all the armies need to be at least 5th ed before the 6th ed SM 'dex is released.
But hey, this is Games "Ultramar" Workshop we're talking about...