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Right, as most know, I got the sack yesterday.

Apparently, going on the Interwebs at work (even if it's just Dakka) constitutes Gross Misconduct, neatly allowing my Boss to not bother with the 4 week notice period. Now, fair enough so far.

However, the company is refusing to pay me the 4 week notice period, something which I am not sure they are allowed to do...

:( I'm sorry to hear that. I know that here in the state they are well within the law.
Were you in some kind of a union?
Does your country have very strong pro worker laws? Did your company have a NO-Interweb rule?
Do you get some kind of severance package?

No severance, just out on my arse with a days wages.

In Britain, we have pretty good employment laws to prevent employers just hiring and firing. The 4 week notice period tends to be an invioable one.

Also means that if I intend to leave my job, I have to give them the same...

@sexist hero:

Uk employment law is somewhat less draconian than in the US. Sure it does mean we get Godzilla unions wrecking the economy, or at least we did until Mrs Thatcher dealt with them. on the other hand it means you cannot just remove someone from their job.

1. First you have a right to use the appeals process for termination of employment.

2. Second if use of the Internet is Gross Misconduct it will be noted somewhere.

3. Yes do contact your Union rep if you have one.

@Mad Doc:

I AM NOT A LAWYER. My advice is limited, seek a lawyer for definitive advaice, and start with your citizens advice bureau too. It does look like your employer might be trying to make you redundant without paying redundancy. However some pointers from some questions:

1. Does internet use severely (more than marginally) affect your work. What I mean by this to be Gross Misconduct you must have been doing more than general Misconduct. Now if for example you were on the net when you should be watching a heart monitor in A&E thats it, out the door. No warning. No forgiveness.
If you happen to have internet on your office desk anyway and switch to Dakka once in a while that is more likely to be ok.

2. Do you visit *ahem* other sites an employer might get upset due to site content. This includes the obvious such as pr0n but also political sites and possibly online games. Notably games that work in realtime or tick based so that you end up planning your day around a game rather than the timing of your work.

3. Does "everyone else" do it?

4. Are there warnings or memos general or personal saying that this activbity is gross miconduct.

5. Is this a first offense. Also have you had a prior written or verbal warning. Most companies have a written and verbal warning system in play.

6. Is it an open secret, has the boss known and not minded before?



Answer the questions as best you can.

Gross Misconduct needs to be specified by the company and may be subject to legal revision (i.e. the company could call it gross misconduct to put lemon in your tea, but a tribunal wouldn't.)

If the company provided internet access at work and did not have a specific policy about its use, they probably can't call it Gross Misconduct.

Contact citizen's advice bureau for more info, or research on the internet -- the government employment law website will have more info.

Have a read of these pages.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/RedundancyAndLeavingYourJob/DG_10026692

http://www.bizhelp24.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=761&Itemid=314


In my opinion (not a lawyer, etc.) you may have a claim for unfair dismissal. It will depend on what you were doing on the internet to get dismissed. Downloading porn or uploading confidential info is more likely to be gross misconduct than just wasting time reading the news or something.

It's worth reading the business advice website to get the other side of the story.

BTW when I say gross misconduct needs to be specified, that would not apply in cases of things like theft or violence which are clearly illegal.

However, in my company's case, taking drugs is specified as not being gross misconduct and they offer medical treatment for it.

Well...most contract have a non exhaustive list of things considered Gross Misconduct.

I had been asked before not to use the Internet at work, and it was not just myself availing the use of such.

I'm more worried about the 'out on my arse with no money' piece. I'm pretty sure thats not allowed... Garden Leave, yes. Thats where you do not go in for your notice period, but you are paid during it.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Well...most contract have a non exhaustive list of things considered Gross Misconduct.

A "non exhaustive" list is a cop out on the companies part. some things dont need to be stated, basically anything that is in itself illegal or endangering health and safety. So they can sack you for any crime committed on company time or premesis, including drug abuse and anything that endangers others. They can also sack you during a probationary period or for abusive or discriminatory behaviour. Other than that they really have to list the reasons.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I had been asked before not to use the Internet at work, and it was not just myself availing the use of such.

Care to be more specific. Did you get a written warning? Have others received and ignored the same warning, also have they been caught? If you are being unfairly picked on this will go in your favour.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I'm more worried about the 'out on my arse with no money' piece. I'm pretty sure thats not allowed... Garden Leave, yes. Thats where you do not go in for your notice period, but you are paid during it.

You need to fight Gross Misconduct too. They are your most recent employer and if they are allowed to put Gross Misconduct on the references you can kiss goodbye to money and sit on your arse for a long time. You need your reference, if they get away with calling it Gross Misconduct that is what they will be able to use as reference material. You could of course ignore your last employer for reference purposes, but to a prospective employer this only means confirmed Gross Misconduct. With the economy the way it is and the job market tightening you need this like a hole in the head.


Answer the rest of the six questions posed, at least to yourself.

Sorry in the meantime got to this site and make a claim for JSA. This will also get you Housing Benefit and Council Tax benefit automatically depending on where you live. Live with parents, no housing benefit. In your own flat and you will get it. If your partner is earning enough that you get no JSA you will still get a proportion of Housing Benefit and council Tax paid, you will also have your National Insurance stamp paid for the year. Also JSA based Housing Benefit and Council Tax benefit rates are higher thann Imcome based Housing Banefit and Council tax benefit rates. Also being on benefits also helps you if you cannot maintain payments on your car or have other debt problems. Credit companies will look more favourably on you (because they have to) as someone who is recently unemployed. I know someone who got his benefits claim in late and lost his car. Had he claimed immeidately he would have had the protection of being a benefit claimee. Your bank and any car credit company you might be dealing with will not know about your change of circumstances and might not react well if the first they learn is whwen you cannot make the next installment.

http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk/JCP/index.html

While you are getting your new job there are certain other advantages you can use which will not of themselves expire when you restart work but you can only claim while unemployed.
Your local council will give or sell you a discount card for the local leisure services, this card normally lasts six months or a year and need not be surrendered when you return to work. This could be as much as 80% off swimming pools, council run gyms and sports facilities. You will also be eligible to visit the PDSA if you have a pet that needs medical attention, its a bit like an NHS for pets.

1. Does internet use severely (more than marginally) affect your work. What I mean by this to be Gross Misconduct you must have been doing more than general Misconduct. Now if for example you were on the net when you should be watching a heart monitor in A&E thats it, out the door. No warning. No forgiveness.
If you happen to have internet on your office desk anyway and switch to Dakka once in a while that is more likely to be ok.

Not especially. I was a Diary Manager, and still made my targets every week.

2. Do you visit *ahem* other sites an employer might get upset due to site content. This includes the obvious such as pr0n but also political sites and possibly online games. Notably games that work in realtime or tick based so that you end up planning your day around a game rather than the timing of your work.

Nope. Only Dakka and Facebook. Occasional Forays onto Ebay.

3. Does "everyone else" do it?

Yup! And I mean everyone...some youtube, some Facebook, others shopping.

4. Are there warnings or memos general or personal saying that this activbity is gross miconduct.

Nope. Nor was it intimated continued usage of the Interwebs would be treated as such.

5. Is this a first offense. Also have you had a prior written or verbal warning. Most companies have a written and verbal warning system in play.

Not a first offence, no. Verbal warning only, but nothing said about things being taken further....

6. Is it an open secret, has the boss known and not minded before?

Yes and no. She's known about it before and never kicked up a fuss.

Based purely on the 6 Q&A above you have a case for unfair dismissal.

The company should follow the procedure of giving you a verbal warning, a written warning and finally a dismissal. Gross Misconduct is reserved for things that really are gross.

I suspect (pure speculation) that in the current economic climate the company is looking to reduce its payroll and perhaps thought that Gross Misconduct is a good way of getting you off the premises immediately without notice or severance pay.

BTW there is no limit of the award that an Employment Tribunal can impose, if they find in your favour. In this case it would not be millions so don't dream. They can in fact order the company to take you back.

Anyway, you should keep a notebook of any phone conversations and copies of any letters you send or receive in connection with this case.

First, get a bit of legal advice, then if it looks like you have a good case you could contact the company and bargain with them. They may prefer to re-employ you or at least pay you a decent severance rather than go before a tribunal.

Sounds to me like the company was looking to trim the number of employees due to the current economic climate and so was finding spurious reasons to get rid of people without having to part with redundancy packages. It’s a common tactic amongst cheapstake/dishonorable companies. Im willing to be more people will go the same way soon.

I can't see any reason that web use would constitute gross misconduct. After all if it was affecting your work that would have been picked up on before your IT dept grassed you up.

If they didn’t want rid of you anyway it would have most likely been a written warning at most.

Anyway good luck MDK I know that this isnt the best time to be out of work, sorry I don’t know enough about employment law to advise you. Have to tried talking to the CAB?

Well, purely anecdotal...

I used to be part of a team of two/three people. There was myself, another Full Timer, and casual Full Timer Uni Student.

My Full Time colleague was made redundant last year, along with one of the Photographers and the Receptionist.

I had been asking for *months* to get a part timer hired for my department. Just a few extra hours a week would have seen to my workload. Suddenly, two weeks ago a part timer is hired and my Bosses son was drafted in to help as well.

Then I get sacked....suspicious to me.

Kilkrazy wrote:Based purely on the 6 Q&A above you have a case for unfair dismissal.

The company should follow the procedure of giving you a verbal warning, a written warning and finally a dismissal. Gross Misconduct is reserved for things that really are gross.

I suspect (pure speculation) that in the current economic climate the company is looking to reduce its payroll and perhaps thought that Gross Misconduct is a good way of getting you off the premises immediately without notice or severance pay.

BTW there is no limit of the award that an Employment Tribunal can impose, if they find in your favour. In this case it would not be millions so don't dream. They can in fact order the company to take you back.

Anyway, you should keep a notebook of any phone conversations and copies of any letters you send or receive in connection with this case.

First, get a bit of legal advice, then if it looks like you have a good case you could contact the company and bargain with them. They may prefer to re-employ you or at least pay you a decent severance rather than go before a tribunal.

I concur entirely with this analysis and advice.

One thing to add - persons who go to tribunals get a horrendous black mark on their real employment credentials. The lesbian soldier who got 250K for being propositioned by a sergeant might have been grossly overcompensated, but also cursed. Noone will hire people like that, as the lawsuit fever might strike them next. Sometimes you have to go to tribunal, but watch out, it is a double esdged sword. You might get your money, but peoople with a history of going to tribunals are unsafe bets for employment.
I would think you have a case, but that is overstating my bounds as someone outside the legal profession.

LuciusAR wrote:
I can't see any reason that web use would constitute gross misconduct. After all if it was affecting your work that would have been picked up on before your IT dept grassed you up.

It most certainly can be; depending on what you should be doing, or the nature of the sites visited.
This explains the questions posed earlier.

BTW if you are properly dismissed, the company is required to give you £200 to pay for a lawyer to advise you on your case. I don't know if that applies to gross misconduct.

Surely Gross Misconduct has to be in your contract for them to sack you over it? If you've signed a contract that says that, then as harsh as it sounds, they are in their right to act on it. However if you've not signed anything that says that then I can't see that they can do this.

As to black mark, "don't ask, don't tell" that's my feelings. I went to tribunal about 8 years ago to fight an instant dismissal case, and won, just never mentioned it to any employer. I think you will find it's covered under the data protection act and I can't see why you have to mention it. GW may not even be allowed to mention it in your reference either

Contractual terms and conditions and acceptance of them can be modified by performance. Basically, if the company put internet use in the contract as Gross Misconduct, but did not sack everyone for doing it, but gave them warnings instead, the company downgrades it from Gross Misconduct to a warnable offence.

It's not so much about me being fired though.

It's more about being out on my ear without any money.

Ah well. Finishing off C.V today (hurrah for targetted CV!) and nipping into town primarily to job hunt, secondly to go to the CAB, and thirdly to hopefully see my girly.

The point is that if you can show a good case that their dismissing you for gross misconduct was unfair (wrongful) dismissal, you can use that as a bargaining chip to get a decent financial settlement and a good written reference.

At the least, without gross misconduct, you are owed your period of notice plus any statutory redundancy payment (this varies widely depending on your age and years of service etc.)

This could be done without reference to a tribunal.

The costs of going to a tribunal can be considerable, even without paying compensation, so the company should be motivated to avoid it.

If the company refuses to accommodate a reasoned approach, you have the fall-back position of going to a tribunal.

You should consider legal help to write a good letter laying out your case.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:It's not so much about me being fired though.

Yes it is. Your CV is worthless without your good name.


Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him,
And makes me poor indeed.
Othello Act3 Scene3

short simple advice, and pretty much all i can give:

phone a company called ACAS and explain it to them, all in all they take every case when it involves this kind of thing, i know a friend done it when she went on her maternaty leave.