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Now thankfully these incidents are still relatively rare, rare enough for it to be worthy of media attention anyway, but what the hell is going on when a man can be arrested, detained for 48 hours, have his personal belongings seized and have his biometric data taken for taking a photograph of a grid?

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/03/03/manchester-man-arres.html

Have we really become so paranoid that we allow the police this sort of power?

Yes.

It is enshrined in new laws created since 9/11.

And ludicrous.

I mean... just really... unmotivated... awaitnevermind.

Thats what the forum is here for.

Lucius are you aware that right now the Special Branch is monitoring your computer and in a few minutes the cops will be knocking down your door?

1984 coming to a country near you real soon.

M.

Just asking for future reference:

Do incidents like this show evidence that we are very likely pawns in a control freak culture.

Or is this just 'anecdote' and 'hearsay' to be glibbly discarded as irrelevent data.

I wouldn't say we are pawns yet but the Conservative and Labour governments of the past 29 years have had a lot of centralised control freakery going on both in the way the country is run and the way they run their parties and try to run the press.

There are occasional moves in the other direction. For instance, Thatch shut down the Greater London Council and Blair brought in the London Mayor (whose powers are much less, of course.)

Regional assemblies have been created for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. OTOH, England has nothing, and local councils in all regions have had their budgets controlled by central government and duties imposed on them in defiance of the principle of subsidiarity.

A hell of a lot of law has been created in the areas of law and order, that is, policing and criminal justice. This trend has accelerated since 9/11.

These bills and acts are matters of public record as are the protests and complaints against them and the increasing number of prosecutions being brought under them.

I'm just glad someone else is interested in sanitation technology. Good to hear people actually take time to photograph sewers and there is more involved in testing water containing other people's fecal matter than getting to the next pay check. Maybe my job is worthwhile

This reminds me of some story about 'Zombies' in a coastal towns sewers. Or something similar.

Is a dim recollection at best.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-514685/Ghostbuster-called-sewage-workers-stalked-zombie-underground-tunnels.html

Sorry about linking you all to the Daily Nazi there.

Orlanth wrote:Just asking for future reference:

Do incidents like this show evidence that we are very likely pawns in a control freak culture.

Or is this just 'anecdote' and 'hearsay' to be glibbly discarded as irrelevent data.

Interesting question.

The answer as far as I'm concerned lies somewhere in between. We certainly aren't at the state were we are all pawn yet and frequent comparisons to 1984 are currently exadurated.

As for this sort of thing being anecdotal, as this has been covered by the press, we can say that these sort of incidents are currently still rare.

However this doesn’t mean we should dismiss this out of hand and citizens must remain vigilant at all times to creeping state power. Highlighting these sort of smaller issues is vitally important otherwise people may only start to object when it is far too late.

Now I can see the point of view of the police here, I really can. I realise that it was coming up to the labour party conference in the same town and that grids like this can be used potentially in the planting of explosives. I also realise that photographing a grid is certainly not 'normal' behaviour, but is not Illegal either. I am however very concerned by the heavy handed way in which it was dealt with. If an offer suspected him of taking a photo, a quick word with the man to ask him and polite request to inspect his phone (Which the man could of refused if he wanted, after all its not against the law to take a photo of an inanimate object) could have cleared the whole thing up on the spot.

Even if they weren't satisfied with his response, or suspected he had sent the image on before deleting it I don’t see how detaining the man for 2 days and entering his property and sizing his PC could possibly be considered an appropriate response.

I was under the assumption that a solid amount of evidence was required before a warrant to enter a propery and search someone's belongings could be issued. However under anti terrorist-laws this man has had his personal property searched and seized under a very flimsy pretext. I'm no expert, but I think that if this was a more mainstream criminal act the standard of evidence required before property could be seized would be far higher. I really do hope he take full advantage and gets allot of compensation for this ordeal.

Another example is that its is currently illegal to take a photograph of a policeman. Now I understand the reason for this, I really do. But I cant help but wonder if the time may come when I take a photograph on the high street and policeman happens to appear in the background that I may be subjected to the same treatment as this man. Or for if I take a photograph in a public park I may be carted off and my house raided for being a possible nonce. There was a story in the press not to recently of one council who were questing all adults in a park who were there without children on the grounds that they were potential paedophiles!

This is the sort of thing that happens when we let paranoia run our lives.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:This reminds me of some story about 'Zombies' in a coastal towns sewers. Or something similar.

Is a dim recollection at best.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-514685/Ghostbuster-called-sewage-workers-stalked-zombie-underground-tunnels.html

Sorry about linking you all to the Daily Nazi there.

So they don't know what a drunk, ambling, crazy homeless person looks like? That's urban survival 101.

we are talking about southern water here
cant expect alot from them.