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Have you ever played a game where a small cluster of people gather around the game, and a couple of those people either give tactical advice or proffer rules corrections? Do you think this is appropriate or intrusive?

I think bystanders should weigh in on rules questions, but tactics is right out. If people are using the wrong rules, then they *should* be corrected to make them better gamers.

Only rules...in both cases..
but as for advice...

for Freindly games, sure give tactical advice, the person accross from you may be learning the game and how to play thier army and what to look for from opponents... I may even tell my opponent how to deal with my own units if i know they are new to the hobby, thats how we all learn....BUT!!...

In a tourney or competetive environ,
Any personal opinions or advice is unacceptable. The only thing I want to hear from a person is the call to evacuate the building in case its on fire... otherwise STFU!

I think it's fine for a bystander to correct a rules mistake especially in the case of one player being taken advantage of by a more experienced player who should know better.

I had to almost threaten a guy i na tourney once who was "helpful" to my opponent on something he was missing. Boy it pissed me off! If it's not a rule being played wrong, shut yer hole!

Simple rule they should only offer advice if its asked for, or ask first if the person wants any advice.
You can discuss it all you want after the game but during the game you need to be respectful of the players and how they feel about others chiming in.

When our gaming club meets before a tournament we encourage tactical advice and rules clarifications to be shared during the games. It hones our skill for the upcoming event.

That as an aside, unless someone is, rules wise, playing the game incorrectly it is poor form interject into someone else's game. They are playing each other, not the bystander.

GW, as a rule for their judges, is to not interfere with a game unless asked. Even if someone is bending or breaking a rule. I suppose the idea is if it is a tournament, all players should know their rules or should ask for a clarification.

We do the same at our Club events and have not gotten any complaints.

I was thinking of friendly games only; for a tournament game, the only time I want someone chiming in is when we call for a judge to make a rules call. Absolutely!

Agreed. At a tournament they should know their rules. I might....might tell a person if they are forgetting something in a tourny game but I sure as heck don't want someone else telling them. I know the rules of 40k and so should my opponent. Other people butting in to remind a person to do something is uncalled for.

However I'm a bit of a hypocrit cause if I hear someone blatantly mis-using a rule next to me I can't keep my mouth shut

I don't mind if somebody chimes in when a rule is not followed, but in that case they need to be able to back it up with either a page number or a section reference. I've been guilty of giving unsolicited rules clarification, but if I do so I make sure that I first read the rule to myself then show them the rule. Saying, "that's how we always played it" will get you nowhere with me.

As far as tactics, keep your nose out of our game. I've been in more than one game where a viewer has said something like, "why did you do that?" They then said that again when I hit them in the balls with a hammer.

Tactics, if it's a little kid yes, or a game which the opponent says "ahh help him out" or is clearly more skilled. I think that rules correcting and helping people remember their own abilities is fine, even if it hurts you. I am fine with people using what they got, so if someone reminds them of it, then who cares? They have it they can use it.

For a tourney, no advise or helping them remembers abilities of their army or anything. Rules CORRECTION or helping them to remember the game rules is fine, but saying "Oh yeah that unit can do X" is not cool.

barlio wrote:They then said that again when I hit them in the balls with a hammer.

I've taken to doing this to spectators as a preventative measures. I don't get a lot of spectators anymore.

barlio wrote:I don't mind if somebody chimes in when a rule is not followed, but in that case they need to be able to back it up with either a page number or a section reference. I've been guilty of giving unsolicited rules clarification, but if I do so I make sure that I first read the rule to myself then show them the rule. Saying, "that's how we always played it" will get you nowhere with me.

As far as tactics, keep your nose out of our game. I've been in more than one game where a viewer has said something like, "why did you do that?" They then said that again when I hit them in the balls with a hammer.

Remember if your at a GW Tournie it must have a Majority of GW parts in that hammer, I suggest to avoid the wrath of GW you use an Ork Dread in a sock instead.

Dashofpepper wrote:

barlio wrote:They then said that again when I hit them in the balls with a hammer.

I've taken to doing this to spectators as a preventative measures. I don't get a lot of spectators anymore.

Lulz. Seriously, though, I personally NEVER comment on tactics in a game, but try as I might, I always end up butting in with rules stuff. I just can't help it... playing with the wrong rules is a pet peeve of mine. However, I've gotten better and tend to wait until someone says something in the form of a question before chiming in. Even then, I still feel like TFG.

EDIT: I only do this at my FLGS where I know the guys. At a tourny or venue where you don't know people, then yeah, I think it's best to stay out of people's games COMPLETELY unless asked.

Bystanders need to STFU on rules AND tactics unless asked. Period.

Nothing more irritating than a bystander taking one side, arguing, then being proven wrong after 5 wasted minutes of arguing.

Shut up....and watch THEIR game, not YOURS.

I think if the rule are being misused or not used correctly, then someone should say something. I dont think EVERYONE needs to read ALL the codex to play. So naturally I wouldnt know all the tid bits fighting against say, the Eldar. But as far as saying move here, move there, do this and attack that, those guys need to shut their damn mouths. Thats cheating as far as Im concerned

The Strange Dude wrote:

barlio wrote:I don't mind if somebody chimes in when a rule is not followed, but in that case they need to be able to back it up with either a page number or a section reference. I've been guilty of giving unsolicited rules clarification, but if I do so I make sure that I first read the rule to myself then show them the rule. Saying, "that's how we always played it" will get you nowhere with me.

As far as tactics, keep your nose out of our game. I've been in more than one game where a viewer has said something like, "why did you do that?" They then said that again when I hit them in the balls with a hammer.

Remember if your at a GW Tournie it must have a Majority of GW parts in that hammer, I suggest to avoid the wrath of GW you use an Ork Dread in a sock instead.

It's the old collectors Warhammer Hammer. It's like 3" long so when I do hit them it creates kind of an awkward moment. But then again it serves its purpose.

I don't think people should blindly walk in and give advice without being asked, but if asked I'm fine with it.

Spectators ought to be like Victorian children; seen, not heard and only speak when spoken to.

Rude/intrusive spectators have encouraged me to not play at public venues in the past.

Now I'm a pretty friendly guy, if someone walks up while we're playing and strikes up a conversation about the game politely (i.e. while I'm not ion the middle of something), I'm going to invite them to watch and answer any questions asked, but thats still seperate from them butting into the game itself (since even if I'm playing a rule wrong how do they know we're not house ruling or some such).

Jack

Rules are one thing. Tactics is another. The thing that drives me NUTS is the player who we keep reminding of a rule

"Your boys can't shoot out of the ork truck that just moved 12 inches"

"Your Mega nobs are slow & purposeful"

"You need to allocate your wounds"

It kills me that another player has to have this pointed out to him every game..... Our group has gotten fed up that whover is playing on a table near him reminds him of these kinds of rules every week.

I don't think bystanders should comment on tactics because they have no idea what you have in reserve, deep striking or whether a character has given a special rule that they haven't realised.

The OC-D

FLGS... pretty much keep your nose out of it unless asked. If rules are in question and you happen to KNOW THE ANSWER (not have an opinion, think maybe you used to know how it worked three editions ago, etc) then by all means toss out a page # or rules section. If the players seem to have a grip on it, are playing through, and you feel like you must say something about a rule you think is being broken, personal relationships and mileage come into play. Personally if I don't know them well, I'll let it slide and maybe ask a question after the game. Interjecting with "You're doing it wrong!" and the like might get you Dredsocked.

Tournament setting... look but keep your yap shut. Interjecting WILL get you Dredsocked.

Tactical advice only if the person is a newbie. Rules advice only if asked for.

I don't know how many times the peanut gallery has been wrong trying to "help" when it comes to rules. Then, just as deadshane put it, you have to now waste time proving the peanut gallery wrong, instead of enjoying your game.

GG

At least no one has voted for option #1!

When is in gaming and with friends comments are ok as long as long as don't interrupt the game flow.
I won't comment at a store that is for the employees to moderate games.

I have to agree with deadshane completely. As a bystander your responsibility is to be quiet and watch the game, period. As was already mentioned, even if you see rules being played in a way you think is wrong, they may be house rules. Possibly the only time I would be ok with rules comments are if someone is teaching a novice and the teacher has asked bystanders to help him/her out.
tactics help is right out. even in a friendly I want to know that I won, or lost as the case may be, of my own accord. And having someone babysit my opponent to a draw or victory kills all enjoyment. I think comments on tactics should be part of the post-game and the only time bystanders should be providing tactics and rules opinions. I'm more likely to learn something if I make a mistake and lose and then receive an explanation on what I did wrong than have someone give me the answers to all my problems mid game.

If someone isn't playing up to my standards of excellence (an act of heresy), I'll punch their face off and take over command of their forces, Commissar style.


A friendly reminder if you play in my LGS: don't turn around, der Kommissar's in town. Oh-UH OH!

One of the things that I really can't stand is people who creep around in the LGS and semi-spectate. They always comment on rules and tactics to each other in a way that is more annoying than helpful. I welcome rules corrections from 3rd parties but tactical suggestions are too much.

Here is MadRabbit's procedure for spectating a game:
1. Walk up to the table.
2. Introduce myself, ask "Mind if I spectate your game?"
3a. If yes, pull up a stool and stay out of the way.
3b. If no, wish them luck and move along.
4. Correct the players on the rules only if:
i. My opinion is asked
ii. I see flagrant cheating
iii. If it turns into a real argument
5. Offer tactical advice to either side if asked and if the opponent doesn't mind.

This game is a matching of wits between two parties, so getting involved where you aren't wanted really isn't cool.

It's actually pretty common where I play for people to ask questions about the rules whether something is possible or a clearance.

There actually is no "judge" its just a collection of people who know the rules really well.


Also, if playing a new player I will explain quite clearly not only how they should play something how it works etc.. even in a tournament.


I don't care I mean its goal is to have fun what does it matter to me if I have to explain to a new player that he wants to get close with his multimelta within 12 to destroy my Landraider.

If you are certain about a rule and it could be a game changer if played wrong then I think it's okay to clarify. You must be absolutely certain and we all know those people who just seem to always get a few very important rules wrong everytime for whatever reason. G