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I've had this question that's been bothering me for some time now: is 40K an extension of WHFB history or an extension of Human history? Depending on the answer, it could make for some very correlations and fun little happenstances. However, it's entirely possible that the two stories are entirely unrelated. For example, WarCraft and StarCraft are both made by Blizzard, but they aren't part of the same timeline (WarCraft is in Azeroth, StarCraft is a continuation of Human history).What's the call?

Its the same. Warhammer's world looks nothing like earth besides having grass and water, but 40k has earth in it, just renamed to terra.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the same, I mean comparing warcraft/starcraft to warhammer/warhammer 40k.

But he fantasy map is incredibly reminiscent of Earth as far as general geography goes. Kislev is Kiev, Albion is Britain, Brettonia is France, the Empire is Germany, etc. Even the vocabularies match up roughly with their relative European cultures, like "Reikland" to "Reichland". Couldn't the apparent differences in geography be attributed to poor cartography or similar errors?

In addition, there are the same chaos gods in both worlds. If they were in different settings, couldn't they at least change the gods? The nmes and roles match, which would seem to suggest a correlation.

Also note the presence of uncannily similar species between the two. Humans and humans, orks and orcs, gretchin and goblins, Eldar and elves, squats and dwarfs, etc. Couldn't all of the species of the old world made different Exoduses as the humans slowly drive out the various races? The elves could have "given up" on Earth and flown away to another planet, eventually evolving into the Eldar. The orcs would eventually find there own way off the planet trough some sort of spore rocket, human races and nationalities would eventually homogenize into one "Empire", and the forces of Chaos would simply propagate trough the warp as they always have in both worlds. Wouldn't tat also indicate a correlation?

Tk421 wrote:But he fantasy map is incredibly reminiscent of Earth as far as general geography goes. Kislev is Kiev, Albion is Britain, Brettonia is France, the Empire is Germany, etc. Even the vocabularies match up roughly with their relative European cultures, like "Reikland" to "Reichland". Couldn't the apparent differences in geography be attributed to poor cartography or similar errors?

Basicly what your saying is the WHFB is roughly based on earth, fair enough

Tk421 wrote:
In addition, there are the same chaos gods in both worlds. If they were in different settings, couldn't they at least change the gods? The nmes and roles match, which would seem to suggest a correlation.

Also note the presence of uncannily similar species between the two. Humans and humans, orks and orcs, gretchin and goblins, Eldar and elves, squats and dwarfs, etc. Couldn't all of the species of the old world made different Exoduses as the humans slowly drive out the various races? The elves could have "given up" on Earth and flown away to another planet, eventually evolving into the Eldar. The orcs would eventually find there own way off the planet trough some sort of spore rocket, human races and nationalities would eventually homogenize into one "Empire", and the forces of Chaos would simply propagate trough the warp as they always have in both worlds. Wouldn't tat also indicate a correlation?

This part is wrong though, the eldar had a very strongly established civilisation long before humans even evolved, as did the orks.

while you may be mostly wrong some people believe WHFB is a world of essentially feral races from 40k; elves being exodite eldar, orcs being feral orks and the humans being humans cut off from the imperium. your point on the chaos gods would be moot in this circumstance as they are universal enities and as such would exist on both the WHFB world and the 40k galaxy at large.

To the O.P. I'm gonna go with neither. Think alternative possibilities. The Warhammer world is obviously meant to be a kind of 'alternative' Earth. There is enough correspondence for it to be obvious. It's built from a bit of a mess of localised, western myth with standard fantasy tropes used in place of historical eras. 40k was originally those races 'in space!!!' It's developed since then, but can't really be read as the future of 'our' universe. It's a bit like Blood Bowl. The universes are similar, related, but not connected.

The two used to be linked, but have not been for many years via Retcon.

Wow how can't you people see this. Even the races are similar. THis little bit will clear things up.When the eldar were fleeing the fall, they crashed on earth losing all their available technology and had to make use of bows and arrows and use gene-splicing to make the trees come alive.The humans called them Elves. The orks were there frrom an ork invasion killing all orks in the crash and the spores spread throughout the land.The lizard men and skaven were always there.And if you go a few hundred years imagine killing off the other races.Then you have present day earth. Then eventually the humans began the conquest of the stars, And then they met the same races except lizardmen and skaven which became extint.

The races are similar because 40k was original Sci Fi Warhammer, warts and all.

In the background the 40k and fantasy Worlds are not linked at all.

Orks have a natural ability to create advanced technology, orcs had to be taught how to use iron. As far as I know, orcs are also not photosynthetic.

Eldar have a completely different physiology from humans, elves do not. Furthermore they are all partially psychic, whereas elves that train in magic have a different set abilities. Also, the fall occurred when humans were space capable.

Orks are not orcs, elves are not eldar, dwarves are not squats, tomb kings are not necrons. The chaos gods may exist between both, or they may merely be identical in both settings, but the warp touches multiple universes anyways.

Games Workshop has cut all ties between the settings, as they didn't want to deal with the inconsistencies between the two, and they wanted to keep each setting centered on its core theme.

Acting as though it "can't be a coincidence" that they're the same is fundamentally flawed, because if they don't exist within the same universe, there is no coincidence. The actual reason for the similarity is that 40k started out as Warhammer In Space, there doesn't need to be an ulterior motive from a real-world point of view.

40k is a future version of human history.

Warhammer Fantasy is simply a forgotten part of 40k (possibly a feudal world), since worlds slip past the notice of the Imperium (and others) all the time.

I believe that 40k is an extension of human history. Fantasy is just that fantasy. It's like Dragonlance or MTG.

Terra is latin for Earth. Exarch Nektel, orkeosaurus, and Gwar! are all correct.

With all that being said. I do believe in the early days of 40K that there were hints that the world that Warhammer is based could be in the 40K universe. I've even heard different people like Karl Franz being lost Primarchs. However that was a long time ago.

Not Karl Franz, not cool enough.
Sigmar yes. Twin-tailed Comet/Meteor = Pod that Primarch was in.

Doesn't the story of Sigmar sound A LOT like the stories of the other primarchs lost on feral worlds? Khan, Vullkan, Sanguinis and more.

It's almost like they were written by the same person!

OMG!!!!!!!!
DUN!DUN!DUUUN!

...The plot thickens...

Yeah, even though GW has completely changed their minds about warhammer/40k relationships now, I'm still stubbornly holding to the Sigmar = primarch story.

I also had the idea that the Warhammer Fantasy world was some sort of Old One experiment, perhaps charting the development of all their races in a controlled environment before things got a bit... mucked up and they got distracted.

But yeah, that's just a wilful, stubborn pride of an idea and certainly doesn't matter anymore.

...Eh, how many primarchs can we say were created for certain?

Did the Emprah find them all?
I stick to the Sigmar = Primarch fluff, becuase Primarch = Cool.

I think it pretty weak that Sigmar founded the Empire. By my count they are hardly a cool race, worthy of having a primarch at the head. Bretonnia would be better if he was all Sanguinius like, or Norse if he was more Russy.

Emperors Faithful wrote:...Eh, how many primarchs can we say were created for certain?

20

Did the Emprah find them all?

Yes

Did the Emprah FIND 20, or is it solid stuff that he made 20.

Where does it say that he found them all? There are some with no records whatsoever of being found?

Also, didn't someone say something about fluff not meaning anything?

Emperors Faithful wrote:Did the Emprah FIND 20, or is it solid stuff that he made 20.

Where does it say that he found them all? There are some with no records whatsoever of being found?

Also, didn't someone say something about fluff not meaning anything?

Solid he made 20, and found them all. This has been stated in multiple Fluff Sources. Sanguinius denting Horus's armour appearers in ONE source.

hmmm, then who are the unammed ones?

(Also since I have to log off now, just entertain this little scenario IF the EMPRAH found them all)

Sigmar kicks ass in Fantasy world, then wanders wilderness or whatever. Emprah travels alone (he did that alot for some reason) and meets Sigmar. Sigmar readily joins Emprah in great crusade, but doesn't really give a second thought about the Empire he built. Mabye cuase he was the one doing all the pwning.

Cya!

corpsesarefun wrote:

Tk421 wrote:But he fantasy map is incredibly reminiscent of Earth as far as general geography goes. Kislev is Kiev, Albion is Britain, Brettonia is France, the Empire is Germany, etc. Even the vocabularies match up roughly with their relative European cultures, like "Reikland" to "Reichland". Couldn't the apparent differences in geography be attributed to poor cartography or similar errors?

Basicly what your saying is the WHFB is roughly based on earth, fair enough

Tk421 wrote:
In addition, there are the same chaos gods in both worlds. If they were in different settings, couldn't they at least change the gods? The nmes and roles match, which would seem to suggest a correlation.

Also note the presence of uncannily similar species between the two. Humans and humans, orks and orcs, gretchin and goblins, Eldar and elves, squats and dwarfs, etc. Couldn't all of the species of the old world made different Exoduses as the humans slowly drive out the various races? The elves could have "given up" on Earth and flown away to another planet, eventually evolving into the Eldar. The orcs would eventually find there own way off the planet trough some sort of spore rocket, human races and nationalities would eventually homogenize into one "Empire", and the forces of Chaos would simply propagate through the warp as they always have in both worlds. Wouldn't tat also indicate a correlation?

This part is wrong though, the eldar had a very strongly established civilisation long before humans even evolved, as did the orks.

while you may be mostly wrong some people believe WHFB is a world of essentially feral races from 40k; elves being exodite eldar, orcs being feral orks and the humans being humans cut off from the imperium. your point on the chaos gods would be moot in this circumstance as they are universal enities and as such would exist on both the WHFB world and the 40k galaxy at large.

Yeah but you are forgetting the fall. Eldar fled everywhere. The Elves could be Eldar whose craftworld crashed on earth while losing their technology and did not want to build them because they would remind them of their shame

deadratman wrote:Yeah but you are forgetting the fall. Eldar fled everywhere. The Elves could be Eldar whose craftworld crashed on earth while losing their technology and did not want to build them because they would remind them of their shame

Except they are not.

No, the eldar codex actually talks about some "Exodite Worlds" where the eldar there wield far more primitive tech and live a more primitive life on the boundries/cracks of the ooniverse. They left the Eldar empire willingly, before the Fall, and are kind of like Amish Eldar. Returning to the old ways.

Emperors Faithful wrote:No, the eldar codex actually talks about some "Exodite Worlds" where the eldar there wield far more primitive tech and live a more primitive life on the boundries/cracks of the ooniverse. They left the Eldar empire willingly, before the Fall, and are kind of like Amish Eldar. Returning to the old ways.

Your Point? Even Exodite Eldar would be AMAZINGLY Psychic, Elves should have Magic Users left right and centre if they were Eldar.

Are eldar full-stop AMAZINGLY Phsycic? No. There are surprisingly few psykers compared to aspect warriors.

And the Elves on the fringe, in thr Exodite worlds, are always living a kind of self-denial, and are cut off from the world itself that they live on. (sounds a lot like High Elves)

Emperors Faithful wrote:Are eldar full-stop AMAZINGLY Phsycic?

Actually, yes, they are. They just suppress the more extroverted use of those powers because that is what caused Slaanesh to be born. That is why they have the Paths etc and very few people become Farseers or Warlocks.

I DID mention that the Exodites live in an EXTREME style of self-denial, moreso than Craftworld eldar, so mabye only the most privelged and trained would be ready to use magic.

Emperors Faithful wrote:I DID mention that the Exodites live in an EXTREME style of self-denial, moreso than Craftworld eldar, so mabye only the most privelged and trained would be ready to use magic.

Yeah, and they would just throw away their advanced technology because.... "The old ways" had far more advanced Tech than humanity ever dreamed of.